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2012-2013 Florida Panthers/NHL Thread

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by Dr Beinfest, Sep 17, 2012.

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  1. Mr. Man

    Mr. Man Hammerhead

    I'd give up a few pieces for him, remember he's makign what 6 Mill this and for three more years? I'd do it.

    What can be sent I don't know, but I see Theodore going to Vancouver no matter what, and a Defenseman.

    If they let him walk with the exception they have next year I believe he'll sign in Florida if given the choice. His Wife's family is here, so is his home and he genuinely never wanted to leave.

    If he's traded, theres no way we get him ever again. 6 Mill for 3 years, 4 mill for 3 years and 2 mill for the remaining years is not a great bargain, but in the end he might end up being worth every penny AND if he keeps his body in shape could be a bargain in the end.

    But he's 33, not 22. So I don't see the urgency to acquire him. On top of the fact that we have three solid goaltenders. Anything more than Theodore and a 3rd round pick for him, I would be deeply disappointed. I think some Panther's fans are like this about Luongo...


    http://youtu.be/qlJtQLg4bpU
  2. Dr Beinfest

    Dr Beinfest Larry's Little Helper

    I know the Panthers are a team that are much more concerned with payroll rather than cap hit, but Roberto Luongo's cap it is something to really be concerned about. There's no way I want to be on the hook for that many years for that contract unless an equally annoying cap hit player is going back (Jovo).

    Until that's in the discussion, this is a waste of time to even consider. There's no reason to waste cap hit on a goalie when we've done just fine platooning and we have great goaltending depth.
  3. Piazza31

    Piazza31 Pr*ck

    As a goalie...

    You can't just continue to platoon. Eventually both wheels fall off. Be it from playing the hot hand, or from age, or from inactivity from being the "cold" hand.

    You need to have a number one, and a solid number two. Without it, and your team has a chance to gonas your goalies go.

    Remember Minnesota when they had Roloson and Fernandez, they didn't get too far.

    Or the Rangers with Vanbiesbrouck and Ricther.

    Eventually good young pairs are split up, eventually veteran goalie platoons are broken down.

    Besides, Theodore and Clemenson are not the answer at goalie. Markstrom may be, but if he isn't the goalie door will keep revolving. Since luongo left we've had belfour, auld, Anderson, Belfour, Clemenson, Salak, Voukoun.

    Shoot- since Beezer left in 98 it's a who's who of has beens. Weekes, belfour, Voukoun, Vernon, McLean, shalentokov (the old ducks goalie) Burke, auld, Kidd.

    Point is- you need someone to lock down the position- just one. If you develop capable backups- great but you need a number one. I love what San Jose did with Warren Strelow at the helm. With him there the sharks developed Kiprusoff, Toskala, Nabokov, Shafer, Hedberg. Shoot Strelow even developed Broduer.

    If the Panthers can develop a system of number ones, than go and let luongo play elsewhere, but this team has never developed a number one in 20 years- I have little faith they can do it now too.

    Btw- it sucks writing novels on your phone.
  4. mystikol87

    mystikol87 Boom Shaka Laka VIP

    Proof? Logic? And a couple of random examples don't make it universally true, so something more than that is needed....
  5. Mr. Man

    Mr. Man Hammerhead

  6. Mr. Man

    Mr. Man Hammerhead

  7. Dr Beinfest

    Dr Beinfest Larry's Little Helper

    As a fan of hockey (and no mean to slight you, Mr. Goalie), I can tell you that platooning goaltenders works just fine. It just depends on the defensive system in front of them more than anything else. Take a look at Scott Clemmensen, for example. He was highly successful in NJ, and when we took him over here he was god awful under DeBoer. When Tallon/Dineen took over, he was successful once again.

    Roloson and Fernandez were an excellent combo, I don't know what you're talking about. So was Roloson/Harding, and so is Backstrom/Harding.

    Your Beezer/Richter example doesn't hold up at all though. Beezer sucked as a Ranger, plain and simple.

    And you're vastly underrating Jacob Markstrom. He's not only one of the best goalie prospects in hockey, he's one of the best prospects in hockey period. From the Panthers organization perspective, they should be painting the spot for him. Not buying Luongo to sit on the bench for $5 million.

    Furthermore, your list of Panthers goalies doesn't say much. Belfour was old as s*** and was signed as a backup to Alex Auld, who was a replacement to the blue chip goalie Roberto Luongo they'd just traded away. Belfour was good, but he was old. Alex Auld f***ing sucked. Craig Anderson was a backup goalie. Salak was never a part of this team.

    Kevin Weekes was a backup. Ed Belfour was a backup. Tomas Vokoun was an all-star player and one of the best goalies in the NHL in his tenure with the Florida Panthers, so I don't know why you're calling him a has been. Mike Vernon was part of a very successful platooning with Trevor Kidd, which saw playoff hockey in 2000. Jamie McLennan was a backup. Shtalenkov was also part of the 2000 team, which went to the playoffs. So was Sean Burke. Alex Auld was never a has been, he was a never was. Trevor Kidd was part of, once again, successful platooning in his tenure with the Panthers (with Luongo as well).


    In fact, other than Alex Auld, the Florida Panthers have been highly successful in net, whether it be through superstar goalies like Vokoun or Luongo, good backups like Craig Anderson, or excellent platooning.
  8. Dr Beinfest

    Dr Beinfest Larry's Little Helper

    Those random examples weren't even real examples. Since the Panthers inception, issues in net have been very short lived, if at all. They've never had a full season go by with issues finding a starter.
  9. Dr Beinfest

    Dr Beinfest Larry's Little Helper

    Thank you for getting my hockey brain rolling, though. I like this.
  10. Piazza31

    Piazza31 Pr*ck

    They were so sucessful they didn't get to the playoffs for 10+ years with all of those goalies?

    What I'm getting at is a platoon has an effect on a goalie by ruining routine. Once that routine is ruined, it's difficult to get it back. When coaches like Torterella routinely play the hot hand until the magic is gone, the back up in that instance or 1B is usually rusty, overprepared and playing like he wants to keep his job- rather than playing because he's capable.

    Rolo/Fernandez/Harding was a great platoon, but they did nothing together.

    Beezer/Ricther was considered one of the best tandems in the game in the early 90's. Richter was the hot shot prospect, Beezer was the Vet who won a Vezina. With expansion they could only keep one, so Beezer went off to Vancouver (so VAN wouldn't have to give up one of their goalies).

    The point is platooning hasn't worked for this team, and it needs to come to an end. My hope is Luongo is bought out at the end of the year but I don't believe he will be a Canuck then. You find stability in net, and you can focus on offense and defense. We have a defense. We'll have a goalie for 3+ years. For the next 3 years we can focus on Forwards and Centers, which has proven to be our achilles heel with low scoring outputs.

    Tim Thomas is old (not retired yet though, Kiprusoff is old and capable, Brodeur the same. It is possible to be a strong goaltender in your late 30's.

    My opinion is get a long term answer at goalie, find some stability between the pipes- and continued success will follow.

    Markstrom should be in Florida playing to see what they have. This offseason its possible Luongo, Bryzgalov, Dipietro (I know, I know), and certain Thomas, Backstom, and Tomas Griess (I'd like to see him find a chance) will all be free agents.

    With a shortened season, and one I believe that has been compacted- you can have two goalies playing every other game with the same rest between a number 1 will get in a normal year.

    I like Markstrom, I hope he develops into a top 10 goalie in the least- but if he isn't the answer where do you go from there.
  11. Piazza31

    Piazza31 Pr*ck

    I really haven't followed hockey since the first lockout- I am surprised I remember most of this.

    Needless to say all I really know about the game today is goaltenders.
  12. Mr. Man

    Mr. Man Hammerhead

    Harvey Fialkov of the Sun-Sentinel has tweeted that the Panthers have signed Dmitry Kulikov to a 2 year deal.
    1 person likes this.
  13. Dr Beinfest

    Dr Beinfest Larry's Little Helper

    There lack of success had nothing to do with what was in net, though. That was always the only one good thing the Panthers had. They usually had zero offense, or in the cases where they were really really bad, zero offense and zero defense.

    Tortorella? What does he have to do with this? As in, TB/NYR coach? In his time with TB he never had good goalies. Khabibulin/Graham were good goalies that ditched early. Ramo, Smith, Denis, etc. all suck. They were never good, never have been good, and never will be good. He was never playing a hot hand so much as he was desperately trying to find a goalie who didn't suck. I don't need lessons in expansion history :p

    If you're talking about John Torchetti, the Florida Panthers interim head coach in 2004, he didn't have a platoon. He had Roberto Luongo and a bad backup in Steve Shields.

    I have no idea what you mean by Roloson/Fernandez/Harding did nothing together.

    Beezer won the Vezina during a season that he by no means deserved the Vezina. Beezer was nothing more than an average goalie in the 80s. He only played two seasons with Richter, the first of which he hardly put up his mediocre career numbers.

    The point is not that platooning hasn't worked for this team. This team has been highly successful at platooning. I don't know what you're talking about. The evidence is there. We've yet to have a failure of a season in net while platooning in the entire history of this franchise.

    I don't think anyone's serious concern is Luongo's age. It's his cap hit, and it's the fact that we have Jacob Markstrom. We don't need Luongo to stopgap, and if/when all turns out nicely, we definitely don't need his cap hit to sit on the bench.

    We've got plenty of depth in goal, too. If Markstrom doesn't pan out, we have options to explore from within. There's also options to explore externally. Little known secret though... if Markstrom doesn't pan out, we will know that sometime a year or two before Luongo's contract expires.

    I would LOVE to sign a free agent Roberto Luongo. That's a completely different story and it requires Roberto Luongo is bought out. We can talk about that if the opportunity comes along. Until then, we should not be wasting money (5x) paying what would be our backup/1B goalie to play less games than the player who is hopefully starting.
  14. gizmo

    gizmo RALLY, BITCH

    Got my tickets for Saturday night. Anyone else going?
  15. Piazza31

    Piazza31 Pr*ck

    There lack of success had nothing to do with what was in net, though. That was always the only one good thing the Panthers had. They usually had zero offense, or in the cases where they were really really bad, zero offense and zero defense.

    Tortorella? What does he have to do with this? As in, TB/NYR coach? In his time with TB he never had good goalies. Khabibulin/Graham were good goalies that ditched early. Ramo, Smith, Denis, etc. all suck. They were never good, never have been good, and never will be good. He was never playing a hot hand so much as he was desperately trying to find a goalie who didn't suck. I don't need lessons in expansion history :p

    If you're talking about John Torchetti, the Florida Panthers interim head coach in 2004, he didn't have a platoon. He had Roberto Luongo and a bad backup in Steve Shields.

    I have no idea what you mean by Roloson/Fernandez/Harding did nothing together.

    Beezer won the Vezina during a season that he by no means deserved the Vezina. Beezer was nothing more than an average goalie in the 80s. He only played two seasons with Richter, the first of which he hardly put up his mediocre career numbers.

    The point is not that platooning hasn't worked for this team. This team has been highly successful at platooning. I don't know what you're talking about. The evidence is there. We've yet to have a failure of a season in net while platooning in the entire history of this franchise.

    I don't think anyone's serious concern is Luongo's age. It's his cap hit, and it's the fact that we have Jacob Markstrom. We don't need Luongo to stopgap, and if/when all turns out nicely, we definitely don't need his cap hit to sit on the bench.

    We've got plenty of depth in goal, too. If Markstrom doesn't pan out, we have options to explore from within. There's also options to explore externally. Little known secret though... if Markstrom doesn't pan out, we will know that sometime a year or two before Luongo's contract expires.

    I would LOVE to sign a free agent Roberto Luongo. That's a completely different story and it requires Roberto Luongo is bought out. We can talk about that if the opportunity comes along. Until then, we should not be wasting money (5x) paying what would be our backup/1B goalie to play less games than the player who is hopefully starting.


    Most of what I meant, and I realized I didn't say it exactly---

    We've been trading assets to acquire goaltending for over a decade, and it's cost us in not having any offense / not being able to trade for offense since our assets are routinely tied into our pipes.

    Most of the goalies that played here we traded for I believe: Vernon (with SJ for Radek Dvorak), Mclean (Carolina for Ray Sheppard) ,Kidd (With ATL), Anderson (Blackhawks), Auld (Canucks/Luongo Deal to get offense with Bertuzzi), Vokoun (1st and 2nd Round Picks)

    We gave up alot of good offensive players for these guys, and good picks. Those two picks could have helped us gain offensive players, but we had a hole at goaltending we needed addressing.

    Like I meant before- stop the revolving door at Goalie, and we'll be able to focus on the offense.
  16. Piazza31

    Piazza31 Pr*ck

    I want to go--- all this panthers talk is getting me hungry for hockey.
  17. MarlinKidd101

    MarlinKidd101 Don't Read This.

    There goes Weiss.
  18. Mr. Man

    Mr. Man Hammerhead

    You know, after I thought about this for a minute, it makes perfect sense. Jovo has been leading the team from behind the scenes and that's a good choice for the time being. But Dineen also knows that Jovo probably won't be playing for more than another 3 years or so (or at least the Panthers won't keep him for longer than that), and that opens up that captaincy position just about the time Gudbranson is ready for it.
  19. Erick

    Erick Marlin

    There lack of success had nothing to do with what was in net, though. That was always the only one good thing the Panthers had. They usually had zero offense, or in the cases where they were really really bad, zero offense and zero defense.

    Tortorella? What does he have to do with this? As in, TB/NYR coach? In his time with TB he never had good goalies. Khabibulin/Graham were good goalies that ditched early. Ramo, Smith, Denis, etc. all suck. They were never good, never have been good, and never will be good. He was never playing a hot hand so much as he was desperately trying to find a goalie who didn't suck. I don't need lessons in expansion history :p

    If you're talking about John Torchetti, the Florida Panthers interim head coach in 2004, he didn't have a platoon. He had Roberto Luongo and a bad backup in Steve Shields.

    I have no idea what you mean by Roloson/Fernandez/Harding did nothing together.

    Beezer won the Vezina during a season that he by no means deserved the Vezina. Beezer was nothing more than an average goalie in the 80s. He only played two seasons with Richter, the first of which he hardly put up his mediocre career numbers.

    The point is not that platooning hasn't worked for this team. This team has been highly successful at platooning. I don't know what you're talking about. The evidence is there. We've yet to have a failure of a season in net while platooning in the entire history of this franchise.

    I don't think anyone's serious concern is Luongo's age. It's his cap hit, and it's the fact that we have Jacob Markstrom. We don't need Luongo to stopgap, and if/when all turns out nicely, we definitely don't need his cap hit to sit on the bench.

    We've got plenty of depth in goal, too. If Markstrom doesn't pan out, we have options to explore from within. There's also options to explore externally. Little known secret though... if Markstrom doesn't pan out, we will know that sometime a year or two before Luongo's contract expires.

    I would LOVE to sign a free agent Roberto Luongo. That's a completely different story and it requires Roberto Luongo is bought out. We can talk about that if the opportunity comes along. Until then, we should not be wasting money (5x) paying what would be our backup/1B goalie to play less games than the player who is hopefully starting.


    Most of what I meant, and I realized I didn't say it exactly---

    We've been trading assets to acquire goaltending for over a decade, and it's cost us in not having any offense / not being able to trade for offense since our assets are routinely tied into our pipes.

    Most of the goalies that played here we traded for I believe: Vernon (with SJ for Radek Dvorak), Mclean (Carolina for Ray Sheppard) ,Kidd (With ATL), Anderson (Blackhawks), Auld (Canucks/Luongo Deal to get offense with Bertuzzi), Vokoun (1st and 2nd Round Picks)

    We gave up alot of good offensive players for these guys, and good picks. Those two picks could have helped us gain offensive players, but we had a hole at goaltending we needed addressing.

    Like I meant before- stop the revolving door at Goalie, and we'll be able to focus on the offense.


    This isn't true either.
  20. Dr Beinfest

    Dr Beinfest Larry's Little Helper

    Well the one time we did it, it paid off and we had one of the best runs in Panther history in net with Tomas Vokoun. Clearly got our value's worth.
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