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Affordable Care Act

Discussion in 'Outfield' started by pierremvp1, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. pierremvp1

    pierremvp1 Negotiator In Chief

    I'm doing some initial research into the cost/benefits of the law. I'm surprised at the cost for my 28 year old son. I'll get into the details of what I've found, but before I do....has this been discussed already? Is there another thread on this subject?
  2. Larry

    Larry The Head Fish .

    Been trying to register for mine since it went live, damn server is clogged up. My health insurance ends Jan 1 and my employer has me as 1099 so yeah.
  3. squall

    squall 8==========D VIP

    When I was 24 I paid $93/m for health insurance( BCBS). $250 deductible $2500 out of pocket max. Dental and vision. The plans have changed, and before I added my children under a family plan my cost a month had climbed to $133/m.

    I don't see how anything on is going to be cheaper than that for individuals.

    Right now for me and my two kids I pay $589/m. At the end of this October I'm going to add my wife. Maybe something on the new market will be cheaper, but from what I've heard, it won't be.
  4. Larry

    Larry The Head Fish .

    I pay $321 a month for just me under my current provider and it has a $1250 deductible on it. No prescriptions included.
  5. squall

    squall 8==========D VIP

    Damn. Thats rough.

    I created an account but it wont let me log in now.
  6. ...

    ... Sun

    This is the biggest fustercluck to hit the American public in the last 50 years.

    "If you like your insurance, you can keep it." "If you like your doctor, you can keep him." "Your insurance premiums will go down by $2,500 per year."

    All false. 15 million people are getting notices that their current coverage can no longer be offered. Networks are restricting which doctors and hospitals are included. Average family premiums are up $3,000, not down $2,500 since that lie was offered.

    After 3 weeks, we've only seen the first hints of how bad this mess will become. It's not a matter of "glitches" or web site traffic problems, it's a matter of the whole 5 million lines of code need to be redone. Fixing it won't take weeks or months, it will take years.

    Worse, if the software is patched up and sputters along, there's still the overriding problem of adverse selection -- most of the people signing up will be the high-cost, high-subsidy people.

    Of every 100,000 people who are claimed to have been "signed up," 90,000 of them will actually be shoved into Medicaid, being ineligible to buy insurance in the first place. Most of the rest will be unhealthy or low-income -- more high-subsidy drags on taxpayers. This problem has now been aggravated by the frustration factor of non-functionality of the website on anyone who isn't a high-cost potential applicant. People who want their large subsidy will try 50 times harder to sign up than someone who gets little or no subsidy.

    The current numbers on this are enlightening. Claims of tens of thousands "signed up" in this or that state turn out to result in but a handful, as in dozens or hundreds of actual purchasers of insurance.

    Almost none of the young and healthy will participate, they're not stupid. Only an idiot would sign up to pay $1,000 or $2,000 or $3,000/year for overpriced coverage they really don't want, when the alternative is to pay a penalty -- oh, excuse me -- a tax, according to the Supreme Court, of $95 the first year and continued peanuts in subsequent years. And the IRS can't even enforce those minor "taxes" with a lien or a levy. If you can arrange your affairs so that you never are owed a refund, enforcement is completely and utterly toothless. By law.

    That spells a death spiral for the insurance market over the next couple of years, and even more massive premium increases, on top of the already massive increases for a bunch of mandatory coverage most people don't want.

    All this for a program that was "not going to cost the taxpayers a single dime" but which CBO now says will cost taxpayers 2 TRILLION over the next 10 years.

    Anyone who thought the feds, in their infinitesimal wisdom, could commandeer 1/6th of the economy and it would work well needs to think again. It's doomed to slow-motion failure by its very nature. The fact that there don't seem to be any adults in charge of this circus makes the joke even more painful.

    Give it 3 years and with any luck the entire nightmare will all be repealed. Then maybe we can try some market-based reforms instead of edicts.
  7. ...

    ... Sun

    And the fustercluck goes on.

    This febrile and totally incompetent administration, after a monumental effort to hide prices from the public, which resulted in a morass of personal data being required before anyone could get something so simple as a price quote, which resulted in a non-functional site, have stepped in it yet again.

    They added a "shop" feature which has only two age categories -- under 50/over 50. Yeah, it's like buying a TV on Amazon! Not.

    Totally ridiculous. The "estimates" of premiums are virtually all wrong, most of them by huge percentages. Total garbage. If you're selling insurance, it helps to know the exact age of the potential applicant if you want to provide an accurate quote. Anything else is useless. Or perhaps intentionally deceptive.

    But, don't lose hope. We can expect years of this sort of idiotic stuff as this ongoing circus augers in to final destruction over the next 2-3 years.

    It's actually hard to tell whether they wanted to hide actual costs because it would expose the lie of "costs will go down" or if they were actually intentionally operating against taxpayer interests in trying to get maximum subsidized participation by making everything appear to be dirt-cheap to the uninsurable and low-income (but above Medicaid income) applicants.

    Of course, the entire proposition can only succeed if they attract millions of young, healthy people at much higher costs than they should pay or would be willing to pay. Which is totally impossible with puny "taxes" for not buying insurance which are largely unenforceable.

    Funny that 2-3 weeks ago various House and Senate Democrats were screaming bloody murder about Cruz, et al being "terrorists" and "arsonists" and "hostage-takers" for offering them a chance to delay this very bad joke for a year. Now, they've suddenly decided that it would be a good idea to do exactly that. Must be an election next year, or something, eh?

    I say to them: Too bad, you had your chance, but you weren't bright enough to take it. Now live with your metastasizing pile of crap.

    You own it, 100%. No Republican voted for it. No Republican had anything to do with writing the ridiculous 2,000 page law. No Republican had anything to do with its implementation. No Republican had anything to do with the writing of 20,000 pages of regulations. No Republican had anything to do with the joke of a web-site. No Republican had anything to do with the coming ultimate total failure because the economics of it are centrally-planned and top-down and not market-based.

    I look forward to it providing many more instances of proof that government will totally screw up anything it touches as this sad saga continues to unfold. And it's only just begun.

    Perhaps at some point the public will be immunized to the idiotic idea that government can solve problems. Or has any idea what it is doing. Or can be trusted to do anything right. Or can get a web-site built for less than, what is it? 300 million? 400 million? 600 million? Estimates vary. Who knows. I predict it'll cost 2 billion+ before it's tossed in the trash and written off as a failure. Who cares? Build another one! How much could a lousy web-site possibly cost? 5-10 billion?

    Please pass the popcorn as we watch the law of unintended consequences operate on a heretofore unimagined scale.

    1 person likes this.
  8. Larry

    Larry The Head Fish .

    I still can't check my plan choices due to technical difficulties on the NYC site. What a pile of garbage.
  9. Entendu

    Entendu sXe

    I love how now, because of our shiny new affordable healthcare, Jackson Hospital will try to raise property taxes in an effort to build for our new affordable healthcare system!

    The thinking is somewhere along the lines of "we need to make Jackson attractive to all these people who can now choose where to get healthcare as a result of the law, because it needs to offset the costs of servicing all of the still-uninsured!"

    Still-uninsured? Are you f***ing kidding me? We didn't just get anally penetrated by Obamacare to STILL have to be responsible for the uninsured.

    But this reduces costs in the long run! Are you sensing a pattern in rhetoric?
  10. el penguino

    el penguino Marlin

    While it might sound like hyperbole, when Ben Carson said that Obamacare is the worst thing to happen to the US since slavery, I think he's 100% right. It's not a stretch to any degree. Obamacare is that f***ing bad.
    1 person likes this.
  11. squall

    squall 8==========D VIP

    Yeah. At least slavery helped build the country.
  12. Entendu

    Entendu sXe

    Too soon.
  13. el penguino

    el penguino Marlin

    As expected, those who were lucky enough to not have their plans cancelled because of the Obamacare regulations are now seeing massive increases in their premiums:

  14. Entendu

    Entendu sXe

    This is going to be so much better than expected. Most of these terrible policies exist because democracy allows one to gang up on relatively small groups of people and force things down their throat with little sacrifice from the benefiting parties. This time, it seems like the benefiting party is the minority to the detriment of everyone else. I can't wait to see the ironic outrage.
  15. el penguino

    el penguino Marlin

    Those people who are getting the heavily subsidized care benefit in the short term, but everyone loses in the end when health care costs continue to go through the roof and the quality of care goes down.
  16. Entendu

    Entendu sXe

    Well, the people with pre-existing conditions that were previously unable to get healthcare because of the cost will probably still benefit. Like you said, the incredibly poor might not even benefit from this in the long-run. It's going to blow up all over the Democrats
  17. el penguino

    el penguino Marlin

    The unfortunate thing is that I really doubt this ever gets repealed. Fortunately, voters might be waking up, though. From the article I posted:

    Remember that Obamacare was pretty damn unpopular in the first place. The backlash was dampened because Obama managed to convince a lot of idiots that the law would make costs go down and that if they "liked their plan, they could keep their plan."

    It could be seen from a mile away that both of those Obama "promises" were falsehoods.
  18. ...

    ... Sun

    Let's be clear about exactly what our favorite jokester actually said on June 15, 2009, while addressing a meeting of the American Medical Association in Chicago:

    And later in the same address:

    Kind of a "read my lips" moment. Who, exactly, is it that doesn't have his facts straight or is misleading anyone?

    Bush 41 could tell us how that works. Where's the red-hot media outrage that would be rampant if any Republican were in the White House and had foisted this giant disaster on the public on pure party-line votes in Congress?

    And, who was that guy who called our Community-Organizer-in-Chief a liar during an address to a joint session of Congress in 2009?

    Oh, yeah, Joe Wilson, Republican member of the House from SC. By golly, Joe was right. He is a liar. Direct and outright. Unequivocally. Repeatedly.

    The media did manage to get totally outraged about Joe's factual outburst. I'll agree that it wasn't polite, but when the public is being blatantly lied to by a narcissistic empty suit on an ongoing basis, what else are you going to do?

    The AMA supported this monstrosity, what were they thinking? Oh, wait, I know. It's called the "doc-fix." Wherein Congress stops taking the annual machete to reimbursement rates under Medicare to try to cut out-of-control costs.

    More important, what's been the result? What are many doctors now doing? Leaving/retiring from practice early or converting to "concierge" practice where no insurance or government is involved or allowed and only prepaid cash is accepted.

    Then, there are those docs who are revolted by the high cost, intrusiveness and time-wasting of requirements for electronic record-keeping and provision of patient data to the feds and all of the privacy implications -- as in you, as a patient now have no privacy or confidentiality.

    Why? So the feds can dictate to docs from on high about what "best practices" shall be, or you get financially penalized if you don't agree. If I was a doc, I'd look at quitting, too. I don't think that most of them signed up to be told how to practice medicine by the feds, but that's what they face.

    Unions also supported this disaster until they discovered that it imperils not just the 40 hour work-week, but their multi-employer health plans.

    Democrats up for re-election suddenly seem to think that delays are a good idea.

    Who will be next to jump ship?

  19. Out of the Past

    Out of the Past Hammerhead

    I think wealthy people with low taxable income will come out quite well getting subsidized health care even if quality eventually goes down. Free stuff is really good especially when you don't need it to be free.
  20. Out of the Past

    Out of the Past Hammerhead

    I hate pieces of s*** like that and I'm so happy she got screwed.

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