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Front office

Discussion in 'Miami Marlins' started by Erick, Dec 14, 2013.

  1. Erick

    Erick Marlin

    Is the Marlins front office the only one that relies on counting stats to make decisions?

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mia...md=20131211&content_id=64588288&vkey=news_mia

    "I think, ultimately, we felt as a group that we needed to upgrade. That six home runs and 36 RBIs, that just wasn't going to get us to where we wanted to go. We felt in Garrett Jones -- a proven, consistent producer -- anywhere from 15 to 27 home runs on an annual basis was a better fit for us moving forward. So we went in that direction."

    Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with the majority of the moves made this offseason. It hasn't been great, but it also hasn't been bad and I think the team has improved (not that that's saying much either to be fair).

    Either way, how do you evaluate players like this? Do they really think that Morrison is only capable of 6 HR's/36 RBI's? Also, there's a pretty big difference between 15 HR's and 27 HR's on the Garrett Jones evaluation.

    They are not good at explaining these things and it makes them look even dumber.
    mystikol87 likes this.
  2. I mean what is one to expect from a FO that traded for Carlos Lee
    curveball likes this.
  3. Erick

    Erick Marlin

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mia...md=20131211&content_id=64607744&vkey=news_mia

    This is a good one from Redmond!

    Redmond pointed out that a few years ago, Jones fared better against lefties. In 2010, for instance, his lefty split was .220 (47-for-214).

    "You look at his numbers in the past ... he has been successful," Redmond said. "So I think initially, my thoughts are he can play every single day."

    Garrett Jones is going to play every day against lefties because he just needs a chance. One time, he got a pretty good chance and he hit .220! Championship.
  4. mystikol87

    mystikol87 Boom Shaka Laka VIP

    See, batting average is also a counting stat. The issue isn't counting stats; they just aren't too bright.
  5. Entendu

    Entendu sXe

    By that logic, LoMo was also successful.
  6. mystikol87

    mystikol87 Boom Shaka Laka VIP

    I think that's an unduly harsh reading of that. I also think the FO severely underuses sabermetrics, peripherals, etc. But here, it just felt like shorthand for Morrison's lack of production. And that's literally the range of yearly home totals for Garrett Jones over the course of his career, so that's no big deal IMO.
  7. Erick

    Erick Marlin

    I wasn't planning on posting that before I started the thread obviously. The point is, I guess, that they're still relying on traditional statistics (HR's and RBI's from the OP being counting stats) when they have more information available these days.
  8. Erick

    Erick Marlin

    Big deal or not, it's a stupid way to evaluate a player. You wouldn't even know whether the guy is a power hitter or not by that quote.
  9. mystikol87

    mystikol87 Boom Shaka Laka VIP

    Yeah, they sure do seem to suck.
  10. Hotcorner

    Hotcorner Teal Avenger .

    what explanation do you want? they like HR from Garrett Jones but not from Ruggiano. Case closed.
    pollyvonwog likes this.
  11. Backin2008

    Backin2008 Backin2008

    Who has more World Series' Championships? Jeffrey Loria's Marlins or Billy Beane's A's?
  12. Wild Card

    Wild Card Batting Third

    I think you're reading a bit too much into this. They may just be using these examples for the public, as the general public doesn't understand advanced statistics.
  13. Rydawg

    Rydawg Hammerhead

    Winning a World Series doesn't matter. That is a counting stat also! LOL
    Backin2008 likes this.
  14. Erick

    Erick Marlin

    You do realize that Billy Beane isn't the only GM using sabermetrics, right? When was the last time the Marlins did anything? Oh, that's right; it was a decade ago. Things change. Organizations are now smarter than before because there is more access to information than before.
  15. Erick

    Erick Marlin

    I think it's pretty easy to tell when a team is using advanced statistics to acquire players. The Marlins are not one of those teams. Just look at the moves they've made over the years and how they've used/continue to use the players they sign/trade for.
  16. Backin2008

    Backin2008 Backin2008

    You are correct. Just stating that the A's are the team that brought sabermetrics into the game of baseball, and they have not won a World Series, that's all. I'm not defending the Marlins' front office.
  17. el penguino

    el penguino Marlin

    I'm pretty certain now that Redmond is dumber than Ozzie and Fredi were.
  18. el penguino

    el penguino Marlin

    Winning a World Series should not be the only measure of success. The Marlins haven't made it to the playoffs in 10 years and were only close a small number of times. The A's have had similar financial constraints and have been in the playoffs three times over that period.
    curveball likes this.
  19. BroncoBob27

    BroncoBob27 Hammerhead


    Sounds to me like Red is just repeating the company mantra. Like any good yes man should.

    Or you could look at it another way and say he is trying to make the best of what he has been given to work with while not causing any ripples with the FO.
  20. ...

    ... Sun

    Then again, most of these guys just aren't all that smart and don't do much other than mouth the usual cliches. They almost all exhibit the incoherence of Casey Stengl or Yogi Berra without the unintentional humor.

    Most of what they say is meaningless. If you ask them the same question two days later, they'll say something else meaningless. Trying to devine some deep meaning from their idle chatter is a fool's errand.

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