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Gio Gonzalez to Nationals

Discussion in 'Major League Baseball' started by Jokersgoon, Nov 21, 2011.

  1. el penguino

    el penguino Marlin

    I'm talking about the futility of dragging this out. I have no doubt that you are a Penn State fan, which is why you went to great lengths to defend the guy.
  2. Erick

    Erick Marlin

    So you're calling out Ashraf for his personal bias when you're making predictions like this with no factual evidence to back it up? Okay.
  3. NOTtheILMarlins

    NOTtheILMarlins Losing while sleeping.

    Johnson is a better pitcher than Strasburg. I have no idea why you are trying to argue that.
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Sun

    Man, you're clueless. I am not a Penn State fan. I do not follow or have any team in college football that I like. I watch the sport, and love it, but no I do not like any teams. I defended Joe Paterno because I felt he was innocent.

    You really can't take people disagreeing withyou, can you?
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Sun

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/how-good-is-gio-gonzalez/

    I like this article on Gio Gonzalez. I agree with it, in that he is probably more of a number three rather than an ace. He has the potential to be one if he fixes his control issues, but he's always had control issues.
  6. It doesn't seem like he can. It seems that way based on every one of his disagreements with someone.
    1 person likes this.
  7. Anonymous

    Anonymous Sun

    I want to stop this back and forth going on, so el penguino, if I said anything that offended you I'm sorry. I'll try to be more rational in my arguments from now on so discussions can be more civil. This can drag on forever, so I'm hoping this ends it. Let's just talk about baseball from here on out.
  8. el penguino

    el penguino Marlin

    Oh, please. I was just clarifying my earlier statement that you are now misconstruing. I made statistical projections for Marlins' starters in the other thread and they were met with little else than "I disagree" by him. So what's the point in going through that again?
  9. el penguino

    el penguino Marlin

    I'm really no more obstinate than anyone else here, including you, Erick, and CanesCop. I'd point to our recent exchanges for evidence of that.
  10. Erick

    Erick Marlin

    I don't really care about what he said.

    I'm not misconstruing anything right now. I even bolded the last part of what you just said in quotes. You think that Zimmermann will be better than Anibal, 2012 and beyond.

    Your claim is that Anibal is simply better at this point because he has more experience, which isn't necessarily a factual statement.
  11. BenderRobot

    BenderRobot Hello! VIP

    To be fair, Erick, he said "Anibal has better career numbers." He didn't say that Anibal was better as an overall pitcher.

    At least, that's my take on it.
  12. Erick

    Erick Marlin

    Yes, I know.

    The underlined part is the part I don't understand. Instead of saying "I think Zimmermann will be better," he should give reasons as to why he thinks that. Anibal having more experience is rather irrelevant. At the end of the day, the pitcher with the better peripherals at the moment is Anibal Sanchez. Anibal Sanchez is also in the prime of his career. It's not as if you can make a clear argument for Zimmermann having more upside, aside from "well, he's a couple years younger."

    It's a BroncoBobish statement.
  13. As case can be made for the Nationals having a better rotation, but it is hardly a slam dunk. The Phillies are the only NL East team whose rotation is clearly and indisputably better than the other 3 (lets not even talk about the Mets).

    The Braves should be better, but one needs to look out when a 36 year old has back surgery and your young gun was shut down for a rotator cuff tear.
  14. el penguino

    el penguino Marlin

    I have no idea what you are trying to say here. My previous claims about homerism were related to the tendency to overrate one's own team's talent, which suggests a bias. It has nothing to do with statistics.
  15. Erick

    Erick Marlin

    Why are you still talking about this and avoiding the subject at hand?

    Why do you think Zimmermann will be better than Anibal from now on? Saying "Anibal is only better because he has more experience" is not a good reason. I guess we should expect Volstad to pitch better than Lannan, if that's the case.
  16. el penguino

    el penguino Marlin

    Huh? I'm not saying that Anibal is better. I'm saying that it might be tempting to use the career stat line as an indicator for Anibal's superiority, but that isn't necessarily a fair assessment because he's spent more time in the big leagues. You really aren't making any sense and are misconstruing my statements.

    If Zimmermann hadn't been shut down early because of the innings cap, he was on pace to have a better season than Anibal. I wouldn't say that Anibal is the better pitcher "right now" just because his career stat line was better.

    I expect Zimmermann to carry his success into next season mostly because of his awesome walk rates, which are a solid indicator of success. The dip in strikeout rates is a bit of a concern, but probably an anomaly, on account of his swing% and contact% figures remaining closer to prior seasons. I'd expect that walk rate to stay the same and a moderate rise in his K/9.
  17. So you are also expecting success from Anibal as well?
  18. Erick

    Erick Marlin

    Which prior seasons were those?

    His contact % has been over 80% every year he's been in the big leagues. League average is 80.7%. That doesn't exactly scream strikeout upside. For comparison's sake, Anibal's was at 76.9% last year.

    Zimmermann's Swstr% (perhaps the most important # for predicting upside in strikeouts) was at ~8% last year. Again, that's below league average.

    It seems like you're overrating Zimmermann's upside a bit.

    Anibal has better peripherals across the board right now.

    The reason why Zimmermann's ERA was quite low last year was mainly due to a 5.9% HR/FB. Similar HR luck to the # Anibal had in 2010. I wouldn't expect that HR/FB to continue repeating itself because it's rather unsustainable.

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