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Trae Turner or Jacob Gatewood?

Discussion in 'Minor League Baseball' started by Eddie Altamonte, Sep 8, 2013.

  1. Entendu

    Entendu sXe

    I feel like the Marlins will pick another almost-ready college bat.
  2. BenderRobot

    BenderRobot Hello! VIP

    I'd prefer that, personally.

    Although if that 40-homer catcher is legit ... lol.
  3. Entendu

    Entendu sXe

    I'm enamored with the type of player Turner could be. A leadoff, plus plus speed shortstop with good defense is a very very good player to have. The 40 HR catcher (if I recall) is a HS product, so he's got to go through (and survive) more levels than Turner
  4. BenderRobot

    BenderRobot Hello! VIP

    Yeah, he's in high school. But Turner would be awesome. If we got him and he started lighting up the minors, maybe the team will realize, "Hech ain't so great ..."
    Turner could probably fast-track.
  5. MrMarlinPride

    MrMarlinPride Unsung Hero

    Played with and against Trae before he went to NC State. He's a great athlete and has a good mind for the game. Liked to pick his spots with steals and could cover so much ground in the middle of the infield. From what i've read it looks like that translated to success in college as well. Love for the Marlins to draft him.
  6. Eddie Altamonte

    Eddie Altamonte Hammerhead

    Alex Jackson is a 2014 C/3B/OF with a 6-2 210 lb. frame from Escondido, CA who attends Rancho Bernardo HS. Outstanding athletic build, unique blend of strength and explosive looseness. Right handed hitter, gets coiled and moves into contact, calm load and approach, very aggressive swing with plus/plus bat speed, easy over the fence power, ball explodes off the barrel, very high ceiling offensive tools. 6.83 runner, arm strength stands out both in the outfield and behind the plate, very solid mechanics behind the plate, quick feet and quick exchange, can show either elite arm strength or elite pop times. Highest level right field tools on defense should he end up there, also has experience at third base. Top ranked player in the 2014 class, tools are eye opening and performs at a very high level. Verbal commitment to Oregon. Selected to the Perfect Game All-American Classic.

    http://www.perfectgame.org/Players/Playerprofile.aspx?ID=288713


    Players Name: Alex Jackson
    Position: C/OF/3B
    Hometown: Escondido, Ca,
    School/When draft Eligible: Rancho Bernardo HS/ 2014.
    HT: 6’2
    WT: 220lbs
    Bats/ Throws: R/R
    Body: Has a stocky muscular frame with a board chest, shoulders and thick very strong legs. His body is already pretty much matured not much room to grow.
    Swing: He has a slightly open stance with high hands. Jackson has a combination middle leg kick with a slight hand draw. He shows a shoulder rotation and excellent torque in his upper in lower halves. Jackson also shows plus bat speed and also shows great lift which translates to plus power. He does have some adjust with his swing path but he has a good change to have an above average hit tool.
    Base running: Jackson shows above average instincts on the bases. He has been documented at 6.82 in the 60 yrds and that would place him at the low end of the above average range.
    Defense: There is no doubt about Jackson’s arm it is a plus and may be a plus plus grade. The question is if he can stay at the catcher position to the Major League level. He shows good lateral movement behind the plate and the in the field. He also shows very good blocking ability and a good quick release on his throws to the bases. If you just look at this thing you would say he could stick behind the plate but is hands and receiving skills aren’t great. Does that mean he can’t stay behind the plate no but it may take him a little longer than most. He is athletic even to play the OF and has quick enough to at least give him a shot 3B.
    Summary: If Jackson can’t stick at catcher does it drop his stock? Yes but not much he goes from a top 5 pick to a top 10 pick, if that tell you anything it shows you how good his bat is. When the ball comes off the bat it sounds like being shot out of a cannon. It is so loud that you don’t even have to be watching to know he is taking BP you can hear it. It really doesn’t matter where he plays his Bat will carry him to the MLB.
    http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/...-jackson-and-suk-min-yoon-status-on-mike-olt/
    Defense: There is no doubt about Jackson’s arm, it is a plus and may be a plus plus grade. The question is if he can stay at the catcher position at the Major League level. He shows good lateral movement behind the plate and in the field. He also shows very good blocking ability and a good quick release on his throws. If you just look at this, you would say he could stick behind the plate, but is hands and receiving skills aren’t great. Does that mean he can’t stay behind the plate? No but it may take him a little longer than most. He is athletic enough to play the OF and he is quick enough to at least give him a shot at 3B.

    Summary: If Jackson can’t stick at catcher does it drop his stock? Yes, but not much. He goes from a top 5 pick to a top 10 pick, if that tells you anything, it shows you how good his bat is. When the ball comes off the bat it sounds like it’s being shot out of cannon. It is so loud that you don’t even have to be watching to know he is taking BP, you can hear it. It really doesn’t matter where he plays his Bat will carry him to the MLB.
    http://bigleaguefutures.net/1/2013/10/09/scouting-report-alex-jackson-cof3b/

    My first taste of amateur talent came earlier in the month with the New Balance Area Code Games in Long Beach. Heading into the week, I heard that Jacob Gatewood and Alex Jackson were the 1A and 1B as the top high school talents. By week’s end, Jackson separated himself from Gatewood and the other positional players, (perhaps by default) solidifying himself as the (early) top high school talent in the country.


    Listed at 6’2” and 215 pounds, Jackson is already built like a man. He displayed solid above-average power in batting practice, driving several balls very well the other way. 55 or 60 potential power isn’t out of the question. I wouldn’t be comfortable going any higher than that. The swing will translate well into the game, too, as well as the raw power.

    But Jackson’s calling card isn’t his power, it’s his pure hitting tool. He has a chance to become a 60 hitter (.280s batting average), given his above-average bat speed, a smooth swing that allows for plate coverage, and the strong hands for bat control. Also, there’s an advanced sense of the strike zone. It’s not just a patient approach, but a sense of what is and isn’t a strike.

    On defense, Jackson could be a catcher or right fielder. But I don’t think he’ll be better than average at either position. Starting with catcher, I didn’t see the agility behind the plate for me to believe he could be an average or better defender. The strong hands are evident, though, as is a plus arm that can profile well in right field. Most people I’ve talked to think he’ll be in right, but there are some believers that he could stay behind the plate. It only takes one team to see the dream. (of course, it depends where they pick in the draft, but you get the point).

    Jackson is entering his senior year at Rancho Bernardo High in San Diego, California — also known as a 70 minute drive from my house — and is currently committed to play baseball at the University of Oregon. One would have to think there’s almost no chance he ever plays there, though, as you’d expect with any player that could realistically be taken in the No. 5 to No. 15 overall range.
    http://rontrarianreport.com/2013/08/21/scouting-alex-jackson-mlb-draft/
  7. BenderRobot

    BenderRobot Hello! VIP

    Another player to throw in that Frisaro mentioned, Tyler Kolek. RHP. Reminds Larry of JJ with his size (6'5, 250). Fastball reaches 99.
    I'd rather go with a bat, but if we draft Kolek (or Hoffman, whichever), the rotation could be ridiculous for some time.
  8. Eddie Altamonte

    Eddie Altamonte Hammerhead

    Kolek is a very real possibility he brings comparison to Roger Clemens and Josh Beckett, 99 MPH heater, might be able to throw into triple digits with consistency as he works on his mechanics.
  9. MarlinsLou

    MarlinsLou Bonifaciennes Unite!

    Under no circumstances should they be taking a high school player.

    Take Rodon or next best college SP
  10. 97marlin

    97marlin Grasshopper

    so realistically Rodon is going to the Astros. Why not just follow suit of the cubs last year and get the college bat that rakes this year with a history of being good. So... Kyle Shwarber, no he doesn't look great, but 18 HR, 42 BB, 37 K, .647 SLG, .456 OBP, all of which as a sophomore. I say if he hits anything like that we grab him, unless someone else has an even better year.
  11. BenderRobot

    BenderRobot Hello! VIP

    Why not just go with Trea Turner in that case? Sure, a power bat is nice, but why not get the all-around guy?
  12. MarlinsLou

    MarlinsLou Bonifaciennes Unite!

    I think they need more pitching, which seems insane I know given the depth, but I'd rather keep adding to a strength. I think their best bet for bats is to create a SP surplus, and start trading it for bats in AA/AAA who can play within months versus waiting 3-4 years for them to develop in the minors. They need them in 2015 and especially 2016, and there is no guarantee Turner is ready OR productive by then. (This goes for Moran, Marisnick, Ozuna, Dietrich, Hech, too. All could be years away despite the Marlins rushing.) These top end SP are close to ready to go and are on the club summer 2016 latest, ala a Dontrelle 2003 situation, which is what they need. Saying that, Turner is likely the best bet for them if they go bat. Unfortunately there is not a Mark Teixeira just sitting there at # 2.

    If we put it on paper as… Fernandez, Heaney, Eovaldi/Turner/Alvarez (pick1), Rodon/Hoffman/Beade (2014 top 3 college SP as of now), and Nicolino, that gives them an excellent top end SP staff and at least a half dozen arms (Cishek, two of Eovaldi/Turner/Alvarez, some of Conley/DeScalfani/Flynn/Urena, Dunn, etc.) to trade for bats within next 2 years. That seems like a better idea to me. Make your SP (and bullpen) staff absolutely brutal (follow the St. Louis model - look at how amazing their pitching is) and fill in the bats with the trade excess and sign them (as bats are safer bets in free agency).

    Anyways, college is the way to go this year. I have no doubts they take a college player.
    ArtisticHate likes this.
  13. canefandynasty

    canefandynasty Hammerhead

    Its Rodon 1st, then Trea Turner 2nd. Those are the 2 I like the most. No HS pitching or hitting, unless the talent is super top of the line, and theres no one like that bin this draft.
  14. Entendu

    Entendu sXe

    Yea, I think we can agree that college is the way to go. I'd like to play it safe and take a Trea Turner simply because he's a high floor-high ceiling kind of guy (as far as speedy leadoff-types go, I mean) but if we don't take Turner then I would definitely want someone like Hoffman. They need to stay away from high school players. We can't wait 5 years for a kid to develop (or not develop)
  15. MarlinsLou

    MarlinsLou Bonifaciennes Unite!

    Turner doesn't really have a high ceiling as he really has no power tool (40-50 on scale at best). He is a high floor guy - solid starter because of the potential for slightly above average D, solid hit tool, and superior speed, but not a star. He would have to hit like Pedroia to get there, and that's asking a lot. There isn't a Pedroia in every draft. Don't get me wrong, he's a top 5-12 pick based on that and he is a great looking prospect, but I don't think you draft high floor-medium ceiling players # 2 overall. You go for the superstar, it's not pick # 22 where your boom/bust potential is higher.

    Rodon, Hoffman, and Beede are the picks for this franchise. High ceiling SP. If they had the ability to wait 4-5 years for a prospect to develop, I'd probably throw in Gatewood, Kolek, and Touissant as well, who all have 70+ scale power/fastballs which is obviously highly desirable. Basically, I'd still pass on Turner and put him in that next group of guys. He's just not a # 2 for me right now (that could obviously change how this year plays out).

    All in on Hoffman really. Hopefully he explodes this year and makes it an easy pick.

    Also will say, if they do indeed trade Stanton and add a top young SP (i.e. Tajuan Walker) for him, I would still likely defer to Hoffman (imagine that rotation Fernandez, Heaney, Walker, Hoffman, Nicolino/Eovaldi… yowza. That could be four 1/2s and a 3) and just trade arms for bats, but Turner would make more sense to me at that point because you have to stop acquiring SP at some point. We'll see what happens this year, but I don't think they should waste their time scouting high school players based on this team. Maybe next year.
  16. canefandynasty

    canefandynasty Hammerhead

    Turner has a good hit tool. His power tool however is nothing to write home about but he has potential to hit 10-15 HRs. He has loft in his swing, and that with his bat speed can generate decent power. I'm not completely sold that he doesn't have some power. Also he plays a premium position and is a solid glove with great range at SS. Would make a great catalyst as a leadoff hitter while manning a premium position even if he doesn't ever develop that power. I'll take that over a bunch of HS pitchers.

    Also, Hoffman to me is all potential because although he looked good in Cape Cod, his college stats don't look too encouraging. He needs to have at least a semi dominant season before I can consider him at #2. Rodon would be #1 in the pecking order for me, before Turner.
  17. MarlinsLou

    MarlinsLou Bonifaciennes Unite!

    I can agree on that with Hoffman. The Marlins really need to be at every one of he starts, as well as Beedes, so they can make an informed decision on both of them. Can't see the Astros not taking Rodon.
  18. Jay Ram

    Jay Ram Grasshopper

    I don't think it's wise to shut out the prep prospects. Christian Yelich, Giancarlo Stanton and Jose Fernandez were high school picks. Let's just look to take the best prospect overall. All things considered.
    Entendu likes this.
  19. Jay Ram

    Jay Ram Grasshopper

    I think both Alex Jackson and Braxton Davidson have more upside than Turner. I know Turner is a SS, but those two dudes have better hit tools and I'll take the power potential over the guy that runs fast.

    Turner doesn't have that much upside. It's a really safe pick.
  20. Eddie Altamonte

    Eddie Altamonte Hammerhead

    I don't know how many people understand what Trea Turner would bring to the Marlins
    Usually when we hear the term stolen base it is about the Marlins keeping other teams from doing it...The last stolen base threat we had was a 40 y/o Juan Pierre! The Marlins offense is so station to station that it is almost surprising when a player scores from 2nd base with a hit (Well it actually almost surprising when they score period). I know this is a different era of baseball and a lot of people are not old enough to remember these name:
    Lou Brock
    Ricky Henderson
    Tim Raines
    Ron LeFlore
    Maury Wills
    Omar Moreno
    Willie Wilson
    Micky Rivers
    These players were poison to other team pitchers They would get a walk and be on 2nd base automatically and before they knew it these players were on 3rd base. They messed up pitchers minds so badly that often they would fall apart for the next few batter.These players could lay a bunt at any time so they were hell for infielders...The worst thing is you cannot shut down speed...Trea Turner would provide this to a Marlins lineup, no one else in this draft does that. He also has amazing range as a SS. It's unlikely he will hit 30 HR's in a season but if he steals bases like he has at NC St he would score more runs with his legs then anyone else

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