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Welcome to The Show! Sean McAdam is stopping by Thursday at 2 p.m. ET as part of our ongoing Hot Stove Heaters chats! Check back each day for a new topic and a new chat! Take it away, Sean!

 

In the span of five years baseball went from having no major league franchises in Florida to having two. There have been times, in fact, when the Florida Marlins and Tampa Bay Rays have been so inept that the term 'major league' seemed hardly applicable.

 

The Marlins have been something of an all-or-nothing proposition, twice winning the World Series (1997 and 2003), but enjoying only two other winning seasons.

 

The Rays, meanwhile, have been the very picture of ineptitude, having never won more than 70 games in any of their 10 seasons. Just once have they finished higher than last place in the American League East.

 

Things have to get better for the two Florida-based teams -- don't they?

 

The case for the Marlins

With an impressive nucleus already in place (Hanley Ramirez, Dan Uggla, Jeremy Hermida), the Marlins also have a stockpile of talented arms (Chris Volstad, Sean West, Ryan Tucker) in their system, having concentrated almost entirely on pitching in the last five entry level drafts.

 

The Marlins further added to their inventory when they shipped Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis to the Tigers in exchange for a host of prospects, led by outfielder Cameron Maybin and left-hander Andrew Miller.

 

Add in the expected return to health of Anibal Sanchez and the Marlins would seem to be pointed back in the right direction.

 

The case for the Rays

While the Marlins can boast of strong pitching, the Rays have accumulated terrific positional talent. Carl Crawford and B.J. Upton anchor a young, athletic outfield and in time, third baseman Evan Longoria and shortstop Reid Brignac are expected to form a talented left side of the infield.

 

Slowly, the Rays' pitching picture is getting brighter. Scott Kazmir and James Shields head a young rotation, and Matt Garza (acquired from the Twins for Delmon Young) provides depth.

 

Should No. 1 pick David Price and fellow prospects Jake McGee and Wade Davis also continue to develop, the Rays would finally be as loaded on the mound as they are in the field.

 

The choiceTrack record should mean something here. The Marlins have won championships twice and rebuilt both times. Their front office -- Admin Beinfest, Mike Hill, Dan Jennings -- has proven an ability to recognize and develop young talent and has been locked up for the long term, ensuring stability.

 

But there?s no denying that the Rays' talent pool is greater. Their outfield is already more accomplished and assuming Longoria and Brignac are as good as advertised, the infield stands to be better, too.

 

The real advantage, however, comes in the pitching department. A projected rotation of Kazmir, Shields, Garza and Price -- augmented by others -- is clearly superior to what the Marlins have in stock.

 

Finally, there's no guarantee -- given Florida?s self-imposed payroll limitations and penchant for dealing off young stars -- that Ramirez will be in a Marlins uniform in 2010.

 

My choice is the Rays; let the debate begin!

 

 

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Interesting, but I think the rays are in a much harder division and league.

I don't know about much harder, but it's harder on the validity that the AL is harder than the NL. The the NL East is without a doubt the toughest division in the NL. We have 3 top tier teams, Mets, Phillies, and Braves, while they have 2, the Yankees and the Red Sox.

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Interesting, but I think the rays are in a much harder division and league.

I don't know about much harder, but it's harder on the validity that the AL is harder than the NL. The the NL East is without a doubt the toughest division in the NL. We have 3 top tier teams, Mets, Phillies, and Braves, while they have 2, the Yankees and the Red Sox.

 

 

:notworthy

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Interesting, but I think the rays are in a much harder division and league.

I don't know about much harder, but it's harder on the validity that the AL is harder than the NL. The the NL East is without a doubt the toughest division in the NL. We have 3 top tier teams, Mets, Phillies, and Braves, while they have 2, the Yankees and the Red Sox.

 

 

:notworthy

 

Yeah, but the Mets, Braves, and Phillies are not the Yankees and Red Sox. Not even close.

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Interesting, but I think the rays are in a much harder division and league.

I don't know about much harder, but it's harder on the validity that the AL is harder than the NL. The the NL East is without a doubt the toughest division in the NL. We have 3 top tier teams, Mets, Phillies, and Braves, while they have 2, the Yankees and the Red Sox.

 

 

:notworthy

 

Yeah, but the Mets, Braves, and Phillies are not the Yankees and Red Sox. Not even close.

Hm, I didn't know that a loss against the Yanks counted more than one against the Mets...

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I think the NL West might be slightly stronger than the NL East, but that's beyond the point.

 

I think the Rays are definitely in better shape than the Marlins right now in terms of talent. They're showing commitment to their players by signing them to multi-year contracts, Jamie Shields + Carlos Pena....something the Marlins hardly ever do.

 

Plus, their farm is probably the best in baseball.

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Interesting, but I think the rays are in a much harder division and league.

I don't know about much harder, but it's harder on the validity that the AL is harder than the NL. The the NL East is without a doubt the toughest division in the NL. We have 3 top tier teams, Mets, Phillies, and Braves, while they have 2, the Yankees and the Red Sox.

 

 

:notworthy

 

Yeah, but the Mets, Braves, and Phillies are not the Yankees and Red Sox. Not even close.

Hm, I didn't know that a loss against the Yanks counted more than one against the Mets...

Hm, I think I meant that you have a better chance of beating the Mets, Phillies, or Braves, than you do the Yankees, or Red Sox.

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Interesting, but I think the rays are in a much harder division and league.

I don't know about much harder, but it's harder on the validity that the AL is harder than the NL. The the NL East is without a doubt the toughest division in the NL. We have 3 top tier teams, Mets, Phillies, and Braves, while they have 2, the Yankees and the Red Sox.

 

 

:notworthy

 

Yeah, but the Mets, Braves, and Phillies are not the Yankees and Red Sox. Not even close.

Hm, I didn't know that a loss against the Yanks counted more than one against the Mets...

Hm, I think I meant that you have a better chance of beating the Mets, Phillies, or Braves, than you do the Yankees, or Red Sox.

I think you have a better chance of beating Sox, Yanks, Jays, O's, than beating Mets, Phils, Braves, and Nats.

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Interesting, but I think the rays are in a much harder division and league.

I don't know about much harder, but it's harder on the validity that the AL is harder than the NL. The the NL East is without a doubt the toughest division in the NL. We have 3 top tier teams, Mets, Phillies, and Braves, while they have 2, the Yankees and the Red Sox.

 

 

:notworthy

 

Yeah, but the Mets, Braves, and Phillies are not the Yankees and Red Sox. Not even close.

Hm, I didn't know that a loss against the Yanks counted more than one against the Mets...

Hm, I think I meant that you have a better chance of beating the Mets, Phillies, or Braves, than you do the Yankees, or Red Sox.

I think you have a better chance of beating Sox, Yanks, Jays, O's, than beating Mets, Phils, Braves, and Nats.

 

I'm with you on this one.

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Success is measured by winning. Sure, the Rays have a wealth of talent across all levels, but this isn't a result of the Rays organization accomplishing anything. This is purely a result of the Rays underachieving, performing poorly on an annual basis, and therefore, consistently being positioned to receive premium draft picks.

 

Plus, you can't just use the argument that they have a poor showing each year from playing in a tough division. Everyone has a poor record against the AL East. Last season the Rays had the second lowest win percentage against the AL East (.403) out of all 14 AL teams. Only the Royals fared worse(.297).

 

Their record outside of the AL East still left them with a dismal .411 win percentage, good enough for second worse in the AL to the Orioles. In addition, the Rays managed to be 1 of 3 AL teams to put together a losing record in interleague play.

 

So maybe it's not really a case of the Rays getting bullied around by their division foes. In fact, it really just boils down to them playing poorly against everyone(.403 vs. AL East, .417 vs. rest of AL, .389 vs. NL), no matter what jersey the opponent is wearing.

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Success is measured by winning. Sure, the Rays have a wealth of talent across all levels, but this isn't a result of the Rays organization accomplishing anything. This is purely a result of the Rays underachieving, performing poorly on an annual basis, and therefore, consistently being positioned to receive premium draft picks.

 

Plus, you can't just use the argument that they have a poor showing each year from playing in a tough division. Everyone has a poor record against the AL East. Last season the Rays had the second lowest win percentage against the AL East (.403) out of all 14 AL teams. Only the Royals fared worse(.297).

 

Their record outside of the AL East still left them with a dismal .411 win percentage, good enough for second worse in the AL to the Orioles. In addition, the Rays managed to be 1 of 3 AL teams to put together a losing record in interleague play.

 

So maybe it's not really a case of the Rays getting bullied around by their division foes. In fact, it really just boils down to them playing poorly against everyone(.403 vs. AL East, .417 vs. rest of AL, .389 vs. NL), no matter what jersey the opponent is wearing.

I agree but when a small market places in the AL East it stops them from trying I think. As far as commitment player wise. Look at the Jays. They keep spending money, but not getting exactly what is right and havent done much. Do the owners continue or go back to saving some money?

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Welcome to The Show! Sean McAdam is stopping by Thursday at 2 p.m. ET as part of our ongoing Hot Stove Heaters chats! Check back each day for a new topic and a new chat! Take it away, Sean!

 

In the span of five years baseball went from having no major league franchises in Florida to having two. There have been times, in fact, when the Florida Marlins and Tampa Bay Rays have been so inept that the term 'major league' seemed hardly applicable.

 

The Marlins have been something of an all-or-nothing proposition, twice winning the World Series (1997 and 2003), but enjoying only two other winning seasons.

 

The Rays, meanwhile, have been the very picture of ineptitude, having never won more than 70 games in any of their 10 seasons. Just once have they finished higher than last place in the American League East.

 

Things have to get better for the two Florida-based teams -- don't they?

 

The case for the Marlins

With an impressive nucleus already in place (Hanley Ramirez, Dan Uggla, Jeremy Hermida), the Marlins also have a stockpile of talented arms (Chris Volstad, Sean West, Ryan Tucker) in their system, having concentrated almost entirely on pitching in the last five entry level drafts.

 

The Marlins further added to their inventory when they shipped Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis to the Tigers in exchange for a host of prospects, led by outfielder Cameron Maybin and left-hander Andrew Miller.

 

Add in the expected return to health of Anibal Sanchez and the Marlins would seem to be pointed back in the right direction.

 

The case for the Rays

While the Marlins can boast of strong pitching, the Rays have accumulated terrific positional talent. Carl Crawford and B.J. Upton anchor a young, athletic outfield and in time, third baseman Evan Longoria and shortstop Reid Brignac are expected to form a talented left side of the infield.

 

Slowly, the Rays' pitching picture is getting brighter. Scott Kazmir and James Shields head a young rotation, and Matt Garza (acquired from the Twins for Delmon Young) provides depth.

 

Should No. 1 pick David Price and fellow prospects Jake McGee and Wade Davis also continue to develop, the Rays would finally be as loaded on the mound as they are in the field.

 

The choiceTrack record should mean something here. The Marlins have won championships twice and rebuilt both times. Their front office -- Admin Beinfest, Mike Hill, Dan Jennings -- has proven an ability to recognize and develop young talent and has been locked up for the long term, ensuring stability.

 

But there?s no denying that the Rays' talent pool is greater. Their outfield is already more accomplished and assuming Longoria and Brignac are as good as advertised, the infield stands to be better, too.

 

The real advantage, however, comes in the pitching department. A projected rotation of Kazmir, Shields, Garza and Price -- augmented by others -- is clearly superior to what the Marlins have in stock.

 

Finally, there's no guarantee -- given Florida?s self-imposed payroll limitations and penchant for dealing off young stars -- that Ramirez will be in a Marlins uniform in 2010.

 

My choice is the Rays; let the debate begin!

 

 

SOURCE

 

 

Good article, thanks.

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i think the red sox and yankees are tougher to beat than the braves, muts, or phils...not only the history behind the teams...but the amount of money they will outspend you by...and for the most part...they dont just spend on scrub players(minus the yankees recent starting pitching signings)

 

Boston RedSox are the only true power house in that division. History and money don't have anything to do with winning ball games, the Yankees are old and overrated while the Blue Jays are showing signs of life, meanwhile boston just gets better and better! The NL East is by far the tougher division.

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Welcome to The Show! Sean McAdam is stopping by Thursday at 2 p.m. ET as part of our ongoing Hot Stove Heaters chats! Check back each day for a new topic and a new chat! Take it away, Sean!

 

In the span of five years baseball went from having no major league franchises in Florida to having two. There have been times, in fact, when the Florida Marlins and Tampa Bay Rays have been so inept that the term 'major league' seemed hardly applicable.

 

The Marlins have been something of an all-or-nothing proposition, twice winning the World Series (1997 and 2003), but enjoying only two other winning seasons.

 

The Rays, meanwhile, have been the very picture of ineptitude, having never won more than 70 games in any of their 10 seasons. Just once have they finished higher than last place in the American League East.

 

Things have to get better for the two Florida-based teams -- don't they?

 

The case for the Marlins

With an impressive nucleus already in place (Hanley Ramirez, Dan Uggla, Jeremy Hermida), the Marlins also have a stockpile of talented arms (Chris Volstad, Sean West, Ryan Tucker) in their system, having concentrated almost entirely on pitching in the last five entry level drafts.

 

The Marlins further added to their inventory when they shipped Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis to the Tigers in exchange for a host of prospects, led by outfielder Cameron Maybin and left-hander Andrew Miller.

 

Add in the expected return to health of Anibal Sanchez and the Marlins would seem to be pointed back in the right direction.

 

The case for the Rays

While the Marlins can boast of strong pitching, the Rays have accumulated terrific positional talent. Carl Crawford and B.J. Upton anchor a young, athletic outfield and in time, third baseman Evan Longoria and shortstop Reid Brignac are expected to form a talented left side of the infield.

 

Slowly, the Rays' pitching picture is getting brighter. Scott Kazmir and James Shields head a young rotation, and Matt Garza (acquired from the Twins for Delmon Young) provides depth.

 

Should No. 1 pick David Price and fellow prospects Jake McGee and Wade Davis also continue to develop, the Rays would finally be as loaded on the mound as they are in the field.

 

The choiceTrack record should mean something here. The Marlins have won championships twice and rebuilt both times. Their front office -- Admin Beinfest, Mike Hill, Dan Jennings -- has proven an ability to recognize and develop young talent and has been locked up for the long term, ensuring stability.

 

But there?s no denying that the Rays' talent pool is greater. Their outfield is already more accomplished and assuming Longoria and Brignac are as good as advertised, the infield stands to be better, too.

 

The real advantage, however, comes in the pitching department. A projected rotation of Kazmir, Shields, Garza and Price -- augmented by others -- is clearly superior to what the Marlins have in stock.

 

Finally, there's no guarantee -- given Florida?s self-imposed payroll limitations and penchant for dealing off young stars -- that Ramirez will be in a Marlins uniform in 2010.

 

My choice is the Rays; let the debate begin!

 

 

SOURCE

 

 

Good article, thanks.

 

 

Hey, No problem.

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