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    #1 Wild Card

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    Posted June 21 2014 - 11:32 AM

    So, this year the Marlins clearly have several All-Star candidates. While we could end up with three guys in Minn, two is more likely. Who gets your vote for most deserving All-Star BESIDES Giancarlo Stanton?

    My thoughts...

    Ozuna? Close, but no cigar. One day.
    McGehee? Probably should, but probably snubbed.
    Cishek? Should be a shoe-in.
    Alvarez? Should be there, 50/50 shot today.

    #2 Erick

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    Posted June 21 2014 - 11:34 AM

    Ozuna -- not even close.
    McGehee -- probably not.
    Cishek -- yeah, easily.
    Alvarez -- maybe.

    Cishek.

    #3 Spike

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    Posted June 21 2014 - 12:26 PM

    Cishek and Alvarez are really the only two besides Stanton who have a case to make it.

    #4 Erick

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    Posted June 21 2014 - 12:41 PM

    Cishek should be a lock unless he just has a terrible couple of weeks leading up to the game.

    #5 Larry

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    Posted June 21 2014 - 12:54 PM

    Cishek should be a lock unless he just has a terrible couple of weeks leading up to the game.

    Should we be worried?
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    #6 Wild Card

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    Posted June 21 2014 - 12:54 PM

    Cishek and Alvarez are really the only two besides Stanton who have a case to make it.

    McGehee doesn't have a case? Really?

    #7 el penguino

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    Posted June 21 2014 - 01:03 PM

    McGehee doesn't have a case? Really?


    Well, he has no shot at making it because there will probably be 2 3B on the roster total and he won't be one of them. He also doesn't deserve to be one of those two, because there are about 3-4 players better than him.

    #8 Wild Card

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    Posted June 21 2014 - 01:09 PM

    Well, he has no shot at making it because there will probably be 2 3B on the roster total and he won't be one of them. He also doesn't deserve to be one of those two, because there are about 3-4 players better than him.

    There are certainly 3-4 NL third basemen that are better players, but there's not 3-4 that are having a better season, and that's what makes an All-Star. A perfect example is David Wright, certainly one of the best players in MLB consistently, but this season just ain't his year.

    #9 el penguino

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    Posted June 21 2014 - 01:16 PM

    There are certainly 3-4 NL third basemen that are better players, but there's not 3-4 that are having a better season, and that's what makes an All-Star. A perfect example is David Wright, certainly one of the best players in MLB consistently, but this season just ain't his year.


    By "better players," I was referring to players having better seasons. There are 3 or 4 of them.

    #10 Wild Card

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    Posted June 21 2014 - 01:22 PM

    By "better players," I was referring to players having better seasons. There are 3 or 4 of them.

    Who are the 3 or 4 third basemen in the NL having better seasons? The only definitive 3B having a better year IMO is Todd Frazier. Matt Carpenter is having an extremely similar season, almost identical offensively, but with a lower BA and less RBI, but better defense. Luis Valbuena doesn't just play third, and he hasn't played the whole year, he's out. Anthony Rendon has had a good year, but again, has spent most of the year at 2B and not 3B. So I'm curious to see who has been so much better...

    #11 Spike

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    Posted June 21 2014 - 01:51 PM

    Frazier, Carpenter, Valbuena, and Sandoval all have higher WAR than McGehee. Frazier and Carpenter significantly higher. But that is only the opinion of sabermetrics.

    #12 Eddie Altamonte

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    Posted June 21 2014 - 01:59 PM

    I agree Cishek is an All-Star, McGehee should be selected but it is unlikely

    #13 Wild Card

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    Posted June 21 2014 - 02:01 PM

    Frazier, Carpenter, Valbuena, and Sandoval all have higher WAR than McGehee. Frazier and Carpenter significantly higher. But that is only the opinion of sabermetrics.

    All-Star's aren't selected based on their WAR, traditionally. Frazier should be the starter, I do 100% agree there. Carpenter has been just fine, him and McGehee have almost identical numbers, especially if you flip their RBI and Runs Scored (Carpenter bats at the top, McGehee cleanup so to be expected).

    Frazier is the only 3B that is definitively having a better season IMO.

    #14 Spike

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    Posted June 21 2014 - 02:01 PM

    If by "only Frazier" you mean "only Frazier, Carpenter, Valubena, and Sandoval" then sure. He is the 5th best 3B in the NL this year.

    #15 Wild Card

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    Posted June 21 2014 - 02:06 PM

    If you are the 5th best person at your position in the league you probably shouldnt make the all star team.

    I'll take McGehee over Sandoval and Valbuena all day this year. You also failed to acknowledge my point that Valbuena plays 2B too often to be considered a third baseman. And Panda is having an OK year, is not better defensively, and has a lower OPS than McGehee despite having 9 HR's.

    #16 el penguino

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    Posted June 21 2014 - 02:17 PM

    Who are the 3 or 4 third basemen in the NL having better seasons? The only definitive 3B having a better year IMO is Todd Frazier. Matt Carpenter is having an extremely similar season, almost identical offensively, but with a lower BA and less RBI, but better defense. Luis Valbuena doesn't just play third, and he hasn't played the whole year, he's out. Anthony Rendon has had a good year, but again, has spent most of the year at 2B and not 3B. So I'm curious to see who has been so much better...


    This is such a Wild Card post.

    First of all, every manager uses different criteria, yes, but WAR is the best metric we have right now to rank who is most deserving. For the record, WAR places McGehee 6th. WAR, by looking at the whole picture, shows that Carpenter has been better than McGehee. The discrepancy in defensive performance was a major factor here.

    Second, you cannot disqualify players who have not played every single inning at 3B. That's idiocy. As long as the player has most of his innings at one position, he should be seen as eligible for it. What you said about Rendon is flat out wrong. You said he's played mostly at 2B, which is the opposite of the truth--he's played 85% as a 3B. Rendon is a 3B and he's been better than McGehee.

    Frazier, Carpenter, Rendon, and possibly Sandoval have been better. I'm slightly on the fence on Sandoval, because that's mostly defensive driven and the WAR margin is small. However, what's most important is that McGehee clearly isn't in the top 2 and it's likely that only two 3B go.

    #17 el penguino

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    Posted June 21 2014 - 02:22 PM

    Anyway, the chances of McGehee getting selected are really low. The starter is probably going to be either Wright or Sandoval and Frazier will be the lone reserve. If a second reserve is selected, it will be Rendon.

    #18 Spike

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    Posted June 21 2014 - 02:31 PM

    Valbuena has played 63% of his games at 3B this year. Rendon 81%. This ridiculous and unexplainable mancrush you have on Casey McGehee is just getting strange at this point.

    #19 Eddie Altamonte

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    Posted June 21 2014 - 03:49 PM

    Frazier, Carpenter, Valbuena, and Sandoval all have higher WAR than McGehee. Frazier and Carpenter significantly higher. But that is only the opinion of sabermetrics.

    Mike Olt is starting at 3rd base, not Valbuena for the Cubs now. You should look up the Cubs most current depth chart
    Valbuena is platooning at 2nd and 3rd but he is no longer listed as the starter

    #20 Wild Card

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    Posted June 21 2014 - 03:59 PM

    Valbuena has played 63% of his games at 3B this year. Rendon 81%. This ridiculous and unexplainable mancrush you have on Casey McGehee is just getting strange at this point.

    I've never had a man crush on McGehee, and I've never argued for him before. I've always been rather indifferent when it comes to him. But he's just continued to be huge, and I don't think his WAR really does him justice.

    And Valbuena has been shifted from 3B to 2B all season, he's not really an All-Star, just a solid player around the diamond.

    This is such a Wild Card post.

    First of all, every manager uses different criteria, yes, but WAR is the best metric we have right now to rank who is most deserving. For the record, WAR places McGehee 6th. WAR, by looking at the whole picture, shows that Carpenter has been better than McGehee. The discrepancy in defensive performance was a major factor here.

    Second, you cannot disqualify players who have not played every single inning at 3B. That's idiocy. As long as the player has most of his innings at one position, he should be seen as eligible for it. What you said about Rendon is flat out wrong. You said he's played mostly at 2B, which is the opposite of the truth--he's played 85% as a 3B. Rendon is a 3B and he's been better than McGehee.

    Frazier, Carpenter, Rendon, and possibly Sandoval have been better. I'm slightly on the fence on Sandoval, because that's mostly defensive driven and the WAR margin is small. However, what's most important is that McGehee clearly isn't in the top 2 and it's likely that only two 3B go.

    I did not realize Rendon had played so much at third, I guess Zimmerman has been hurt more often than I estimated. In that case I would have to change my mind, I think he's right there with McGehee and Carpenter IMO for the second most deserving behind Frazier.

    I do agree, however, someone undeserving such as Sandoval or Wright will get the start and Frazier will become the reserve, and that will be the end of it.




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