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Mlbtraderumors also says we'd be interested in Chapman if he becomes available. Let's give up assets for a short-term fix when the team is 9 games under .500. Makes perfect sense. Bullpen isn't even a big issue anymore since Cishek's demotion.

 

 

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Mlbtraderumors also says we'd be interested in Chapman if he becomes available. Let's give up assets for a short-term fix when the team is 9 games under .500. Makes perfect sense. Bullpen isn't even a big issue anymore since Cishek's demotion.

 

 

I don't know who they expect to move in a scenario like this, but there are extremely few players in the minors who would cause me to be pissed, if traded.

 

 

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Mlbtraderumors also says we'd be interested in Chapman if he becomes available. Let's give up assets for a short-term fix when the team is 9 games under .500. Makes perfect sense. Bullpen isn't even a big issue anymore since Cishek's demotion.

 

​I don't agree with adding Papelbon or Chapman but let me ask you something related...

 

Yes, the team is 9 games under .500 but they are not that far back in the standings.  Which part matters more? For example, if we were .500 right now but the same distance back (possible some years), would you be saying the same thing?

 

 

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For Chapman, I'm guessing every intriguing prospect left would go in the trade.

 

I would actually rather trade for Papelbon if they're getting one of them.

 

Ideally, I don't want either one. There are cheaper alternatives to improve the bullpen.

 

As of now, Ramos, Capps, and Dyson look pretty strong as the top 3 righties in the pen. 

 

What the bullpen could use is another lefty or a righty who's effective against lefties. Doesn't necessarily have to be a star closer.

 

 

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I don't buy the Papelbon interest as anything more than due diligence. The blue jays have also been checking out closers. Another lefty is necessary in the pen and just let Hand be the long reliever. Chapman would be a premium option but Carlos Lee happened. 

 

Edit: I feel pretty comfortable the Marlins wouldn't overpay for chapman being they didn't do that initilally. The reds gave Chapman a bigger contract thinking he could start and the fish had him marked as a reliever. 

 

 

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For Chapman, I'm guessing every intriguing prospect left would go in the trade.

 

I would actually rather trade for Papelbon if they're getting one of them.

 

Ideally, I don't want either one. There are cheaper alternatives to improve the bullpen.

 

As of now, Ramos, Capps, and Dyson look pretty strong as the top 3 righties in the pen. 

 

What the bullpen could use is another lefty or a righty who's effective against lefties. Doesn't necessarily have to be a star closer.

 

​I'm not supportive of this trade idea by any means but who is really intriguing in the minors other than Kolek and Nicolino?

 

 

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The problem is with our depleted minor league system and the fact we don't have many marketable major leaguers to sell for purposes of strengthening our depth, the Marlins are pretty much stuck with the current core of players. So at 6 back of 1st place in mid June any move that improves the team has to be explored. 

 

In this case if we were able to get either of those relievers it would be a good move for the team. We still have the lowest payroll and if philly or cincy are willing to take what we have in the minors I don't really see why anyone here would be against such a move. 

 

 

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I agree Wittgren is at least worth trying out.

 

These are all short term fixes to a team that needs long term solutions.

 

The argument that this team needs long term solutions implies that by trading for someone we will lose that asset. You could basically have your pick in this farm system and I'll still take Chapman. And as far as long term solutions, outside of corner infield the core of this team is pretty solidified and no realistic moves would change that

 

 

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Not arguing that the system sucks and nobody of substance would be lost there, but the point was more a guy like Papelbon is a short term solution. Also, to get those guys, it will take major league players considering the minor league system is barren. The question becomes whether you would be willing to part with a Christian Yelich or Marcell Ozuna and likely other pieces to get a Chapman. Look at what Bryan Morris gave us last season or what Cishek is doing this year and it shows just how volatile relievers are. There's no point trading valuable players for them, and I'd absolutely hate to lose anything of value for what in this specific scenario would be a problem that could very easily be solved with less expensive answers.

 

This team needs three long term starting pitchers, a real first baseman (sorry Bour, but lets get real here), and a consistent bullpen top to bottom. Outside of Ramos there really hasn't been any consistently good bullpen arms. I still have no issues with how the Marlins went into the season bullpen wise and feel it's just really shit luck guys like Cishek, Dunn, Morris, etc... just regressed from last year. I also believe in the mix and match approach, which means going through guys in the minors, throwing different pitchers on a dart board and seeing which ones stick.

 

My biggest worry long term remains starting pitching. Once Haren is either traded or leaves in free agency, I absolutely do not trust our #3-5 starters, and our #1/2 in Fernandez/Alvarez simply cannot be trusted to remain healthy anymore. If this team wants to compete in the future, it is going to need to invest heavy in starting pitching this offseason. While there are plenty of options to try out (Flores/Nicolino/Urena), none of these guys are top tier prospects, and a guy like Latos isn't good enough to be given a solid deal this offseason while guys like Koehler/Cosart aren't good enough to be anything beyond a #5 pitcher for a legitimate playoff team. The guy most likely outside of the top 2 to remain in the rotation next year is Phelps, and even he screams of a #5 pitcher who will be thrust into a higher role than he should be.

 

It is a bit weird to try and find out why this team is so far under .500 when they've gotten a par for the course season from Stanton, far better than expected seasons from Dee Gordon, Adeiny Hechavarria, AJ Ramos and Dan Haren. Yes, there are massive regression guys like Morse, Salty, Yelich, and Cishek, but I've definitely seen worse put together lineups and bullpens by Marlins teams with better records.

 

I really feel the biggest problem this Marlins season is that they had no contingency plan. They got lucky with Bour and to an extent Realmuto, but when Alvarez went down, the flaws in the starting rotation started to show. The stats support us having a league average rotation, but for us to compete we NEED a top 5 major league rotation. This team needs to go all out for AT LEAST one more starting pitcher this offseason. I think that's the only chance this team has for a playoff birth in 2016. While this season is statistically viable and realistic, the truth is if this current core of players doesn't work, there is nothing in the horizon that should make us feel good about a brighter future. There is no future of players. That future is on the field, in the starting lineup right now. If the best this core of players can do is 9 games under .500, there is major reason to be concerned moving forward.

 

 

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Not arguing that the system sucks and nobody of substance would be lost there, but the point was more a guy like Papelbon is a short term solution. Also, to get those guys, it will take major league players considering the minor league system is barren. The question becomes whether you would be willing to part with a Christian Yelich or Marcell Ozuna and likely other pieces to get a Chapman. Look at what Bryan Morris gave us last season or what Cishek is doing this year and it shows just how volatile relievers are. There's no point trading valuable players for them, and I'd absolutely hate to lose anything of value for what in this specific scenario would be a problem that could very easily be solved with less expensive answers.

 

This team needs three long term starting pitchers, a real first baseman (sorry Bour, but lets get real here), and a consistent bullpen top to bottom. Outside of Ramos there really hasn't been any consistently good bullpen arms. I still have no issues with how the Marlins went into the season bullpen wise and feel it's just really shit luck guys like Cishek, Dunn, Morris, etc... just regressed from last year. I also believe in the mix and match approach, which means going through guys in the minors, throwing different pitchers on a dart board and seeing which ones stick.

 

My biggest worry long term remains starting pitching. Once Haren is either traded or leaves in free agency, I absolutely do not trust our #3-5 starters, and our #1/2 in Fernandez/Alvarez simply cannot be trusted to remain healthy anymore. If this team wants to compete in the future, it is going to need to invest heavy in starting pitching this offseason. While there are plenty of options to try out (Flores/Nicolino/Urena), none of these guys are top tier prospects, and a guy like Latos isn't good enough to be given a solid deal this offseason while guys like Koehler/Cosart aren't good enough to be anything beyond a #5 pitcher for a legitimate playoff team. The guy most likely outside of the top 2 to remain in the rotation next year is Phelps, and even he screams of a #5 pitcher who will be thrust into a higher role than he should be.

 

It is a bit weird to try and find out why this team is so far under .500 when they've gotten a par for the course season from Stanton, far better than expected seasons from Dee Gordon, Adeiny Hechavarria, AJ Ramos and Dan Haren. Yes, there are massive regression guys like Morse, Salty, Yelich, and Cishek, but I've definitely seen worse put together lineups and bullpens by Marlins teams with better records.

 

I really feel the biggest problem this Marlins season is that they had no contingency plan. They got lucky with Bour and to an extent Realmuto, but when Alvarez went down, the flaws in the starting rotation started to show. The stats support us having a league average rotation, but for us to compete we NEED a top 5 major league rotation. This team needs to go all out for AT LEAST one more starting pitcher this offseason. I think that's the only chance this team has for a playoff birth in 2016. While this season is statistically viable and realistic, the truth is if this current core of players doesn't work, there is nothing in the horizon that should make us feel good about a brighter future. There is no future of players. That future is on the field, in the starting lineup right now. If the best this core of players can do is 9 games under .500, there is major reason to be concerned moving forward.

 

No trading for relievers. Agreed 100%. Think about Ugueth Urbina for a moment. If the Marlins lost the 03 WS and we'd traded a rental of Ugie for Adrian Gonzalez, fans would be howling still. 

 

 

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Mlbtraderumors also says we'd be interested in Chapman if he becomes available. Let's give up assets for a short-term fix when the team is 9 games under .500. Makes perfect sense. Bullpen isn't even a big issue anymore since Cishek's demotion.

 

​Chapman is one of the most dominant relievers in baseball, and our farm system isn't even that good, anyway. What "assets" do we really have down there? If the Reds would be dumb enough to move Chapman for a few of our minor leaguers, you do it without thinking. This isn't some run-of-the-mill reliever we're talking about.

 

 

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​Chapman is one of the most dominant relievers in baseball, and our farm system isn't even that good, anyway. What "assets" do we really have down there? If the Reds would be dumb enough to move Chapman for a few of our minor leaguers, you do it without thinking. This isn't some run-of-the-mill reliever we're talking about.

 

​I would not include Kolek, for example, in a deal for a reliever. 

 

For what it's worth, Papelbon is every bit as dominant as Chapman these days, but everyone hates him. I absolutely do not want Papelbon either for other reasons, but I find the hatred of him kind of weird. 

 

 

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If we're asking who improves the team Chapman has a case but Papelbon doesn't especially with his shitty attitude and demeanor. I wouldn't want him for free.

 

​Papelbon improves the team about as much as Chapman does. Papelbon is one of the best relievers in the game. I'm not sure why people say stuff like this about him every time his name is brought up in rumors. 

 

 

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