[pach233]

Just wondering if any of you guys saw the 30/30 Marlins edition on MLB Network today. Personally, I thought they took a couple of unnecessary jabs at organization but overall were pretty accurate in their assesment of the team. What did you guys think?

[floridafly]

I'm going to watch the 10 o'clock one, but what jabs did they take? Low payroll and stuff along those lines?

[pach233]

Yeah some low payroll/attendance things as well as the tone that some things were said. Don't get me wrong John Hart is very knowledgeable and it showed in the program but I, (and maybe I'm a bit more sensitive), definetely sensed some "disrespect/mockery" at times. Comments like "overachieving team", don't roll your eyes when the Marlins expect to win 90 games" and "its funny how they think they should really be in the postseason" or something to that effect.

[gizmo]

I didn't think they did too bad of a job. They all concluded that the team will finish 3rd in the division however, behind both the Phillies and the Braves.

[SilverBullet1929]

pach233, on March 12, 2010 - 08:33 PM, said:

Yeah some low payroll/attendance things as well as the tone that some things were said. Don't get me wrong John Hart is very knowledgeable and it showed in the program but I, (and maybe I'm a bit more sensitive), definetely sensed some "disrespect/mockery" at times. Comments like "overachieving team", don't roll your eyes when the Marlins expect to win 90 games" and "its funny how they think they should really be in the postseason" or something to that effect.

I agree. They did a great job hitting the points that most of on here already know... BUT they did it with a sneaky grin. They were like "Yeah the Marlins will be good...really! We're serious! I know you don't believe us, because nobody does... but really!" They gave us our credit but gave it to us as if we wouldnt have believed it to begin with.

I also wasnt too thrilled with them consistently saying how great we became in 2009 with 87 wins and then consistently asking "BUT CAN THEY COMPETE?"... Listen idiots, you just made it clear that our 2009 was awesome, why are you asking IF we can compete when its quite clear? We know we can, and you do to! How do we get 87 wins in 09 and then have these guys saying "Hmmm, can they ever win 90?" ...that pissed me off.

"Can" questions are reserved for losing team like the Nationals who just made upgrades. Consistently winning teams like the Marlins are not "can" teams when they've clearly kept the team's core.

[squall]

Mitch Williams is a moron. That is all. Really disrespected Livan Hernandez. At the end of the show, they predicted the marlins would place 3rd again....again? Hmmmmm lol

Reynolds and Leiter are the brightest spots on their network.

[MVETOY]

Why everyone get so upset when something negative is said about the team, i will bet negative stuff is printed about every single team in baseball, the best way to prove these people wrong is the team go out and win over 90 games and shut them up, we cannot and should expect every article printed about the team going to be postive. "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt.

[dom2613]

Why the heck are we measuring our pitchers vertical jump?

Also I loved Cody at the beginning of his interview, he sounded so rehearsed.

[squall]

MVETOY, on March 12, 2010 - 10:47 PM, said:

Why everyone get so upset when something negative is said about the team, i will bet negative stuff is printed about every single team in baseball, the best way to prove these people wrong is the team go out and win over 90 games and shut them up, we cannot and should expect every article printed about the team going to be postive. "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt.

Its not about negative stuff being printed. Its about the lack of respect and ignoring facts.

This is the reason why I'm now getting frustrated. Before I could dismiss all the negative press because, hey, the marlins fire sales, dismantling teams, poor attendance, and low payroll etc. I get it. But the marlins have secured a new stadium. They are KEEPING the same types of players they would normally be trading away. They are a winning team. Payroll is increasing and will continue to. The path the marlins as an organization have been taking over the past years has been very clear. Which is why it is even more frustrating that I can see it and people who get paid to write sports don't.

I accept negative press, but not blatant disrespect.

[SilverBullet1929]

squall, on March 12, 2010 - 11:07 PM, said:

MVETOY, on March 12, 2010 - 10:47 PM, said:

Why everyone get so upset when something negative is said about the team, i will bet negative stuff is printed about every single team in baseball, the best way to prove these people wrong is the team go out and win over 90 games and shut them up, we cannot and should expect every article printed about the team going to be postive. "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt.

Its not about negative stuff being printed. Its about the lack of respect and ignoring facts.

This is the reason why I'm now getting frustrated. Before I could dismiss all the negative press because, hey, the marlins fire sales, dismantling teams, poor attendance, and low payroll etc. I get it. But the marlins have secured a new stadium. They are KEEPING the same types of players they would normally be trading away. They are a winning team. Payroll is increasing and will continue to. The path the marlins as an organization have been taking over the past years has been very clear. Which is why it is even more frustrating that I can see it and people who get paid to write sports don't.

I accept negative press, but not blatant disrespect.

Yeah the blind ignoring of facts is what sucks, not the negativity. Its like these guys are pre-programmed to say the same garbage about the Marlins when its clear that the Marlins are im the process of changing their routine and improving for the longterm.

[fanofthefish]

Well as a Marlins fan I think they can do better than third, but I as a baseball fan I agree with some of their points. Where they totally dropped the ball was on the home grown team!
Antonio Alfonseca was not home grown as he was a Rule 5 draft pick from the Expos, I'm so glad they know soooooo much about the Marlins! Since obviously he's ineligible I would insert Michael Tejera or Vic Darensbourg in the bullpen, not much homegrown relief help. Also not to get too picky but Kevin Millar was orginally signed after playing for a team in the Northern League..

[bakerluv77]

squall, on March 12, 2010 - 10:36 PM, said:

Mitch Williams is a moron. That is all. Really disrespected Livan Hernandez. At the end of the show, they predicted the marlins would place 3rd again....again? Hmmmmm lol

Reynolds and Leiter are the brightest spots on their network.

I despise Mitch Williams...I'm also not crazy about Harold Reynolds, but he does like the fish.....

[bakerluv77]

SilverBullet1929, on March 12, 2010 - 11:38 PM, said:

squall, on March 12, 2010 - 11:07 PM, said:

MVETOY, on March 12, 2010 - 10:47 PM, said:

Why everyone get so upset when something negative is said about the team, i will bet negative stuff is printed about every single team in baseball, the best way to prove these people wrong is the team go out and win over 90 games and shut them up, we cannot and should expect every article printed about the team going to be postive. "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt.

Its not about negative stuff being printed. Its about the lack of respect and ignoring facts.

This is the reason why I'm now getting frustrated. Before I could dismiss all the negative press because, hey, the marlins fire sales, dismantling teams, poor attendance, and low payroll etc. I get it. But the marlins have secured a new stadium. They are KEEPING the same types of players they would normally be trading away. They are a winning team. Payroll is increasing and will continue to. The path the marlins as an organization have been taking over the past years has been very clear. Which is why it is even more frustrating that I can see it and people who get paid to write sports don't.

I accept negative press, but not blatant disrespect.

Yeah the blind ignoring of facts is what sucks, not the negativity. Its like these guys are pre-programmed to say the same garbage about the Marlins when its clear that the Marlins are in the process of changing their routine and improving for the long term.

Yeah, but then they act all "surprised" when the Marlins are good. DO NOT LIKE.

[bakerluv77]

WTF??? We finish under .500??????

[ctina2277]

Does Mitch Williams have any redeemable qualities? I have no idea why they'd hire such an unlikable man to be on television. I cringed when I realized he was on 30 clubs in 30 days for the Fish.

[thefisherman]

where was Gonzo's walkoff HR in game 4 in the prime 9 moments?

[BroncoBob27]

squall, on March 12, 2010 - 10:36 PM, said:

Mitch Williams is a moron. That is all. Really disrespected Livan Hernandez. At the end of the show, they predicted the marlins would place 3rd again....again? Hmmmmm lol

Reynolds and Leiter are the brightest spots on their network.

I don't think he disrespected Livan at all. He was right, that strike zone was huge that night. He could have taken it further and talked about how that WS MVP was just political and not the real thing.

Yea, they all picked us at 3rd. But they also each had a "but if" thrown in there and said it very well could be 2nd place. Also said once we make the play offs we succeed. I have no problem with them, or anyone, picking the Phillies to take the division. It's the smart pick.

BTW Al is constantly mocking our attendance figures. Pretty harshly at times.

[SilverBullet1929]

bakerluv77, on March 13, 2010 - 02:07 AM, said:

WTF??? We finish under .500??????

Yeah I didnt understand this either. An hour spent on saying how good our 09 was and how we should be just as good in 2010... and then they predict us finishing under .500? What???

[Puma]

SilverBullet1929, on March 13, 2010 - 10:41 AM, said:

bakerluv77, on March 13, 2010 - 02:07 AM, said:

WTF??? We finish under .500??????

Yeah I didnt understand this either. An hour spent on saying how good our 09 was and how we should be just as good in 2010... and then they predict us finishing under .500? What???

Those are not their predictions. Those are the projected standings from Baseball Prospectus.

[el penguino]

If you look at the Pythagorean W-L from 2009, the Marlins should have won 82 games instead of 87. So if you assume that the Marlins score and allow approximately the same number of runs in 2010 as they did in 2009, the Marlins could certainly be only a .500 team next season.

It seems to me that the Marlins would only break away from that .500 threshold if you expect the talent to improve (score more runs and allow less runs). Maybe someone who knows more about SABR than I do could correct me on this.

[ArtisticHate]

I enjoyed last years edition and this years was just about the same. I don't really have a problem with them picking us to finish 3rd because, like it was said, they did say that if some things clicked for us that we could make 2nd and the Braves would be 3rd. I was concerned that they'd pick us for 4th behind the Mets.

Two things did stick out about what was said though. First was Mitch talking about how he doesn't think Cameron Maybin should bat the 2 hole. He thinks that its too much of a thinking position in the lineup and that a young rookie should bat down in the order, probably 8th. He thought then Maybin would end up over thinking and would just be "see ball hit ball". I can understand about how Maybin might not be the ideal 2 hitter, but I'd still rather see him hit behind Coghlan and in front of Hanley. I think he stands a better chance of success and working it out there. Then, of course, if Maybin does work some things out... maybe he and Coghlan could swap. Who knows.

The second point was about Andrew Miller and how they said that Randy St Claire's appointment as pitching coach would be good for getting Miller's mechanics worked out and how Miller "couldn't repeat his delivery". Mitch also touched upon how Miller has a 97 mile an hour fastball, but last season it was around 88 and that was due to mechanics.

[Nny]

el penguino, on March 13, 2010 - 11:32 AM, said:

If you look at the Pythagorean W-L from 2009, the Marlins should have won 82 games instead of 87. So if you assume that the Marlins score and allow approximately the same number of runs in 2010 as they did in 2009, the Marlins could certainly be only a .500 team next season.

It seems to me that the Marlins would only break away from that .500 threshold if you expect the talent to improve (score more runs and allow less runs). Maybe someone who knows more about SABR than I do could correct me on this.

More or less. We won so many games over our Pythagorean record because we won the most 1 run games in the league. That's generally unsustainable. The reason projections have us as around a .500 team is because they project more or less the same performance from last season, at which we performed like a .500 team based off runs scored/runs allowed. In order to surpass the projections, our players either need to improve from last season (PITCHING) or we need to greatly succeed in close games again.

[QbanCastillo]

I didn't have too many complains about the episode, mainly because I expected most of it, but I was pissed when Greg Amsinger called the team "overachieving"...like wtf, isn't that the whole GOAL in Baseball? It's posing the question as if the Marlins are SUPPOSED to do less, that's where they belong. Douche.

[EricWiener]

el penguino, on March 13, 2010 - 11:32 AM, said:

If you look at the Pythagorean W-L from 2009, the Marlins should have won 82 games instead of 87. So if you assume that the Marlins score and allow approximately the same number of runs in 2010 as they did in 2009, the Marlins could certainly be only a .500 team next season.

It seems to me that the Marlins would only break away from that .500 threshold if you expect the talent to improve (score more runs and allow less runs). Maybe someone who knows more about SABR than I do could correct me on this.

There are always Pythagorean oddities every year. Since the Marlins have been above their Pythagorean totals for a couple of years now, there are likely other factors at work.

[mystikol87]

EricWiener, on March 13, 2010 - 04:28 PM, said:

el penguino, on March 13, 2010 - 11:32 AM, said:

If you look at the Pythagorean W-L from 2009, the Marlins should have won 82 games instead of 87. So if you assume that the Marlins score and allow approximately the same number of runs in 2010 as they did in 2009, the Marlins could certainly be only a .500 team next season.

It seems to me that the Marlins would only break away from that .500 threshold if you expect the talent to improve (score more runs and allow less runs). Maybe someone who knows more about SABR than I do could correct me on this.

There are always Pythagorean oddities every year. Since the Marlins have been above their Pythagorean totals for a couple of years now, there are likely other factors at work.

Probably due to us having pitchers like Matt Lindstrom, who pitch to the situation and understand how to pitch in a way to, for example, only give up 2 runs when we have a 3-run lead or 1 when we have a 2-run lead.