PitchingWinsGames

Whatever, I'm saying that I can't say that formula is right because I honestly have no idea how they come with those numbers. I do know that Marshall is better than Holmes in some of the most important numbers, receptions, receiving yards, TD's, and % of catches made when thrown to. Those numbers are what wins games. And you're calling me immature? Your first sentence paints a sentence that I never said. All I ever said was I didn't understand the formula for the number, so I can't say it justifies Holmes being better than Marshall. Nice of you to twist my words around. I really don't care to know. Sorry. You didn't care to know why it rated players the way it did, you dismissed it before you even understood it. The fact is, you're saying Marshall is better than Holmes in "important" numbers... Well, that's not entirely right. Marshall gets thrown to WAY more than Holmes. TONS more. So, even if they did things at exactly the same rates, of course Marshall would have more numbers, that doesn't make him a better player, it means he had more opportunities. "Those numbers win games" - you're better than cliches, Dim. Marshall is a talented prima donna who has been fortunate enough to get more targets than anyone else in the NFL the past few seasons and the second those targets come back to earth, the numbers will deflate just as quickly... The long and the short of it, though, is that it's flat out ignorant to a) say Marshall is easily way better than Holmes, and b) to dismiss something before you understand it. Remember when I didn't know what I was talking about with Jay Cutler, the same dude who led the NFL in INTs last season?

I'll be honest, I have no idea what those numbers mean. With guys like Kelley Washington, Robert Meachem, Devin Aromashodu, Davone Bess, Jericho Cotchery, and a few other guys on that list ahead of Brandon Marshall, I really don't care to know. Sorry. And yes, production favors Marshall over Holmes throughout their careers, but I shouldn't have put it past a Steelers fan to try and find a reason to say Holmes is a better receiver. Hilarious. "I see numbers in front of me that prove me wrong, but because I don't like what they say, I will just put them aside." Again, as simply as I can put it, Brandon Marshall is the product of being targeted more than any receiver in the NFL. The numbers weigh situations. A 10 yard reception on 2nd and 20 is worth much less than a 10 yard reception on 3rd and 9, for example. That site isn't run by a Steeler fan, so why would he intentionally skew the numbers in a Steeler's player's favor? Grow up, Dim.

Marshall is way better than Holmes, it's that plain and simple. This is hilariously wrong... http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=WR&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1 Where is Holmes on that list and where is Marshall... I did this before last season started, too. Marshall's obviously talented, but very much the product of being targeted more than any other receiver in the league. Given the choice, I'd take Holmes over Marshall 7 days a week and twice on Sundays, 'cause even if Holmes smokes too much weed, I'd rather have that over a prima donna any day.

You're against contraction, you've admitted expansion's a bad idea, yet you want to realign divisions... albeit this would require expansion in the AL... alrighty.

Listen guys: this thread is about how the New York Jets are going to 19-0. They are the greatest team ever. The Dolphins, Steelers, Bears, Bucs, and everyone else sucks. So, shut up already. :whistle Don't make me shun you again >_>

"Im going to ignore the fact that I accosted you for doing the same thing I did but attack you with ad hominems!" weeeeeee

What does "equal odds" in that regard even matter then? The only things that actually matter in baseball regarding playoffs are: winning the division, and THEN winning percentage. You play your division the most, so like I said, you control your own destiny... and if you find yourself in a division that's particularly stacked at the top, but you still put up a great record, you can be rewarded with a wildcard berth. So who cares if your league is 14 teams or 16 teams, so long as you play your division the most? Losing divisions is a terrible idea, and adding teams would significantly lower the quality of the league, if not add more basement dwellers, increasing to a lack of disparity. Therefore, the only idea to equalize anything would be contraction, and there's generally no reason to do that and no viable candidates for it. For real? Is it that hard to grasp this concept? One league has more competition than the other league. The NL central has 6 teams competing for the title. 6 teams of competition fighting for 1 spot. the AL West has 4 teams competing for that spot. LA only has to formulate a team good enough to beat 3 other teams, for example. St. Louis must formulate a team better than 5 other teams to win their division. Of course a good team is a good team and they are barely dependant on another team in their division being good/bad, but you've gotta think that LA has less to worry about in the AL West when there are 3 teams that could go and create competition whereas in the NL Central there are 5 teams. And then when it comes to the WC... 11 teams in the AL fight for 1 spot. 13 teams in the NL fight for another. From any offseason you have 12 other teams that can put together a better team than your own to win the WC, whereas in the AL there are 10 other teams. Are you going to claim that if the NL had 50 teams while the AL still had 14 it would be fair? Judging that divisions remained the same... 47 teams compete for a WC spot whereas 11 teams compete for a WC spot. How is that fair? If you only played your division, and only your division, your argument might have some basis to it. But that's not the case, you still play... if I'm not mistaken... the majority of your games outside of the division against other teams. It seems to me that you're just trying to troll me to this point... because this is ridiculous. Haha, don't think so highly of yourself, I would hardly go out of my way to troll you. But yeah, you're making a dumb argument... to make the World Series, you have to be the best team in your league. As such, the two leagues operate independently of each other, short of brief interleague appearances, the ASG and the WS. So, consider that before saying that teams are on an unfair level. Think for a second though, in a division with fewer teams, each division game is worth more, so yes, it is still fair.

Lol except Cedric Benson wasnt the #7 RB in the league. The point is you are arrogant and offensive when you claim that I am crying about a situation when if you didnt know I was a Dolphins fan you couldnt have even made that statement. You fail to acknowledge several points. You assume that was the best the Steelers could have gotten... but you dont know that. And if you dont know that and we all understand that Holmes talent is that of a champion (funny you point out Burress because I note both of these WRs being Superbowl heroes on different occasions). I never once said trading Holmes was a bad decision. I agree getting rid of him was a good decision for the Steelers, actually. It's probably better for Holmes, too. But regardless of whatever happenes in the future, even knowing that Holmes value had been tainted due to off field issues and a suspension, it is not at all outlandish to think that Holmes could have gotten a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round pick. And you don't know that the could have gotten more via trade later, but you're allowed to make that claim? As I recall, you're "sure" they could have gotten more. And yeah, they were both Super Bowl Heroes, but then what? Buress finds himself in jail, constantly in the doghouse for not practicing and showing up late to team meetings, etc... and Holmes constantly finds himself smelling like an old joint. It's not outlandish to believe they could have gotten more, but it's far less outlandish to believe they could have gotten less based on what they actually got, and the fact that he's been a character concern since college. Again, you act as thought I targeted you, specifically, world doesn't revolve around you Sir Doctor of Beinfest

What does "equal odds" in that regard even matter then? The only things that actually matter in baseball regarding playoffs are: winning the division, and THEN winning percentage. You play your division the most, so like I said, you control your own destiny... and if you find yourself in a division that's particularly stacked at the top, but you still put up a great record, you can be rewarded with a wildcard berth. So who cares if your league is 14 teams or 16 teams, so long as you play your division the most? Losing divisions is a terrible idea, and adding teams would significantly lower the quality of the league, if not add more basement dwellers, increasing to a lack of disparity. Therefore, the only idea to equalize anything would be contraction, and there's generally no reason to do that and no viable candidates for it.

Lito may have been bad, but Cromartie is worse. It's not even that hard to see. He's afraid of contact and constantly gets burned. So you play Cover 3 and have him be the 3rd deep cover guy, rather can cover man to man, he's fast enough to cover a deep zone, because that would keep him from being burned by moves and negates the need for contact. Rex Ryan is smart enough as a defensive coach to use him in a way to exploit his skill set.

Boo!!!! Stop the fighting. While I know you're an exception... I can't wrap my mind around a Philadelphian actually calling for a fight to end.

*Note, I think Mystikol intended his post to be above mine :mischief

If you arent addressing me dont quote me, how bout that? Of course you were addressing me because you were upset that I called Steelers management stupid for only getting a 5th round pick. All of those players you mentioned were Steelers. Just like Holmes. You guys obviously didnt miss out on anything to do with them, because you already had them. but the next time you guys are in search of... oh say... an RB for example... and for the sake of an argument and being stupid... Adrian Peterson gets traded for a 5th round pick due to drug issues... to the... hmm... Cincinnati Bengals... I'll tell you to stop crying about it. Even if your comment was merely a point that Adrian Peterson, however suspended for the next 4 games of the season... is much more valuable than a 5th round pick. Just sayin. And yeah, I totally think that the Steelers are the epitomy of poor management. That's why they won all those titles. Of course I'm being sarcastic here. But the point is just because they are smart doesnt mean they dont make stupid decisions. Hindsight 20-20 my friend... even if/when Holmes flutters away you will claim the Steelers made an amazing move. But of course they didnt, because Holmes can fetch more. Yeah, perhaps he isnt going to get you a 1st round pick and that's why you dont see Marshall moving... but at the same time Holmes was eligible for more than a 5th round pick and had the Steelers held onto him until the trade deadline I'm sure they could have gotten a 4th. I'm sure they could've gotten a 3rd, and perhaps a 2nd was not out of the question. Haha, Cedric Benson got sent to the Bengals for trash and proceeded to have a breakout year. A first round pick with character issues went to the Bengals when the Steelers had an injury plagued Parker and Unproven Mendenhall. Your example already happened and I didn't complain then, and as much as I love(d) Holmes, he's much more similar to Benson than Peterson. And I'm glad you're sure of all this, because the Steelers put image first, the fact of the matter is, Holmes was a character issue, he drove his own price down. Talent-wise, he's obviously worth way more than a 5th round pick, but you don't just pay for talent when you go to acquire a player. The NFL Trade deadline is what, week 6-7? So, Teams would have literally doubled their best offer in the span of 2-3 weeks, for a player with the same history of character issues? (Remember, he was going to be suspended 4 weeks, the Steelers knew that as they were trading him) That's highly unlikely. Look, I probably owe Holmes one of my first-born kids (along with Max Talbot, Josh Beckett, Sidney Crosby, Hines Ward and several others) but I respect the organization for doing what they did and getting what they got. This isn't Madden, this is real life and teams don't want to invest a lot in headaches.

League expansion, and to some degree league contraction, is a poor idea. There are no teams that can't succeed in MLB, and Pittsburgh is currently in the process of proving that any team can rebuild if they do it right... and the Marlins have done it numerous times in the past. Each team should have equal odds and equal opponents. Every other sport has achieved that... I think that's a priority. Yeah, the NHL/NBA did it by having sub .500 teams make the playoffs (Hello Raptors/Bulls) and the NFL isn't entirely fair, but that's a separate discussion. If anything, I'd argue that the MLB has the best playoff system in pro sports, 162 games, mostly divisional, there's the importance of winning the division, as a result and then the congeniality prize that is the Wild Card. The actual playoffs being a crapshoot thing is generally unavoidable in most sports, though, so I don't hold that against anyone. As for individual teams being in divisions that may or may not be "fair"... we've come out of the East against the Mets and Phillies and the Rays topped the Sox and Yankees... no excuses.

So claiming that all Dolphins' fans are "crying about it" isnt being critical? For your information my post was not even from the perspective of a Dolphins fan. I said nothing referencing to the Dolphins. Had I been any team in need of a WR I would have put up more. There is stupidity on any GM who needed a WR in this situation, and stupidity for the Steelers as well. Who are you to say that they did a good job shopping him? Who am I to say that there could have been other offers? We dont know anything, but common sense tells you that a 5th round pick is not the value of the #7 WR, regardless of suspensions for 4 games. Yeah, the Dolphins are stupid for not getting in on this. The Steelers are also stupid for not getting more. They didnt HAVE to cut him. There was no clause stating that. They WANTED to cut him. None the less Im not crying about anything. But next time you feel that... oh... the Steelers miss out on fleece of a trade I'll be sure to tell you to "stop crying about it". It's being critical to those that are. So, if you were not crying about it, I suppose it wasn't addressing you, but if you want to White Knight all the Dolphins fans out there, more power to you. As for the Steelers "not getting more" in TODAY'S NFL, nobody pays a high price for potential headaches. This is Holmes's second substance related suspension, one more and he's likely gone a whole season... and considering the team has no control over his personal life, that's a gamble not many want to take. "Character" is the hot button issue these days, "character" is why Dez Bryant's draft stock is in constant flux, and countless other examples. So yeah, I have little problem with getting a 5th round pick, all things considered. And yes, for other franchises, they didn't "have to" cut him, but for the Steelers, they did. The Steelers are an "image-first" franchise, and you can bet Ben only has one more strike to his name, too. The only difference between Ben and Holmes in this matter is circumstance, because Holmes definitively had substance issues, Ben can't be proven definitively, one way or another, to have had issues with these women who could (or could equally not) just be gold diggers. But hey, for what it's worth, I can't think of a time in recent memory that the Steelers "missing out" on any player, we let Porter go, we let Plax go, we let Kendrell Bell go, and yet we still have multiple rings in that span. I think the Steelers know when to let somebody go and when not to. Feel free to tell me to "stop crying about a move" though, 'cause, honestly, it isn't going to happen Sir Doctor of Beinfest.