What's new

Arnesberg shouldnt of got fired

AJBurnett34

Muckdog
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
4,645
Reaction score
0
Should he have gotten fired? I would say NO! He is a great pitcing coach and the pitchers loved him and learned everything he said. He gave A.J new set of mechanics that has worked for him last season. He helped BEckett perfect his change up, also he helped Matt Clement on his delivery and was amazing last year. I cant believe the Marlins Fired Him...

Sports columnist
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Berardino
?

BERARDINO: No coach cared more about his pitchers
Published May 12, 2003


Call him an arm-killer if you must. Term him hopelessly behind the times when it comes to pitch counts and other such New Age approaches.

Go ahead and hold him personally responsible for putting A.J. Burnett's career in jeopardy. (Although the pitcher himself has never felt that way.)

But understand this about Brad Arnsberg as we sift through Sunday's carnage: No coach has ever cared more about his athletes, and no one will ever work any harder on their behalf.

Arnsberg treated his pitchers like sons. He invested physically, mentally and emotionally in them. He went hunting with them, fishing with them, running with them.

Fired Sunday after a little more than one season as Marlins pitching coach, Arnsberg cared. Maybe too much. Maybe that's why his dismissal turned so messy in the wee hours Sunday morning.

The cycle of events began with Arnsberg sitting alone at the Pembroke Pines Ale House, stabbing at another post-defeat meal around 11 p.m. Assistant General Manager Mike Hill called and told Arnsberg that GM Admin Beinfest wanted to speak to him.

When Beinfest called a few minutes later and told the pitching coach he wanted to meet with him immediately, Arnsberg knew what was coming. He had already survived a March 24 showdown in Kissimmee, when Beinfest tried to fire him over the objections of manager Jeff Torborg.

How many more chances would there be to turn around a star-crossed pitching staff?

Arnsberg suggested they meet at his apartment, but Beinfest said he preferred somewhere public. Arnsberg said he was tired and wanted to head home, so he gave Beinfest directions to the Centergate Miramar apartment complex.

How fitting. A sad, sordid fortnight that began with Elbowgate and questions about who knew what and when regarding Burnett's pitching arm would end at the Centergate. Where else?

Beinfest and Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria arrived just before midnight in Beinfest's SUV. Arnsberg invited them into his two-bedroom, second-floor apartment, went to retrieve a dip cup and flopped down on the loveseat.

Beinfest and Loria sat on the couch. There was no chitchat.

According to Beinfest, the pitching coach reacted to news of his dismissal in a manner that was "unprofessional, abusive and bordering on violent."

The GM made this charge in an impromptu news conference after the club refused to let Arnsberg enter Pro Player Stadium or even the staff parking lot Sunday afternoon.

Arnsberg admits to raising his voice and using profanity but says at no point did he threaten or move toward Beinfest or Loria in a menacing manner.

According to Arnsberg, Beinfest said the club had relieved Torborg of his duties and determined the "pitching aspect" of the Marlins needed "an adjustment" as well. The injury-wracked staff had simply not performed up to expectations, Beinfest said.

"Who are you specifically talking about, Admin?" Arnsberg said. "Are you talking about A.J.? Are you talking about [Josh]Beckett or [Brad] Penny?"

Beinfest was initially "dumbfounded," Arnsberg said, before suggesting the freshly fired pitching coach "answer that question [him]self."

At this point, tensions rose. Arnsberg demanded an answer from Beinfest. When Loria tried to intercede, Arnsberg told him to "stay the [expletive] out of this."

Beinfest, who is a puffy 5 feet 9, stood up and barked at the still-seated Arnsberg, who is 6-4 and 210 pounds.

"I'm the GM," Beinfest said, "and the decision has been made."

Arnsberg shouted back: "You're not a GM. You are a [expletive-expletive]."The meeting over after three heated minutes, Beinfest and Loria rushed for the door and bounded down the steps. Arnsberg trailed after them, making it to the sidewalk as his former bosses made their getaway.

Calling into the night to rolled-up, tinted windows, Arnsberg got the final word.

"You screwed your own investment, Jeffrey," Arnsberg yelled. "You screwed your own investment."

They had met 14 years ago, when Loria was a rookie owner of the Triple-A Oklahoma City 89ers and Arnsberg a talkative kid on the road back from Tommy John surgery. They hit it off immediately.

Once, before a four-game series in Buffalo, Loria asked Arnsberg to give a pep talk and tell his teammates how much their owner wanted to beat the rival Bisons.

Arnsberg gave the talk. Loria's team got swept.

Arnsberg, 39, laughed as he told that story Sunday afternoon in between calls from his family back home in Texas, his attorney and his many friends in the game, including ex-Marlin Kevin Millar.

Saying he was "at peace" with his fate, Arnsberg recounted how he was one of Loria's handpicked choices from the Oklahoma City gang to join the Montreal Expos. The budding star rose from bullpen coach to pitching coach in July 2000, and there was never any doubt he would come south with Torborg before last season.

Loria loved "Arnie," vowed he'd be the one to help the Marlins' young guns unlock their potential.

Something changed, though, after the Matt Clement deal last spring. According to an industry source, Arnsberg incurred the wrath of the front office when he asked whether anyone had considering getting Clement to restructure his contract before moving him for transparently economic reasons.

"It was like, `How dare this man in uniform say such a thing?'" the source said.

Asked Sunday, Arnsberg couldn't remember his last substantive conversation with Loria. It had been a long, long time.

That messy parting at the Centergate was merely the final tug on a long-strained friendship.

"Our relationship," Arnsberg said, "is completely severed."

Even unemployed, Arnsberg is the lucky one.
 

Teal Shadow

Muckdog
Joined
Aug 21, 2002
Messages
1,835
Reaction score
0
:confused I can understand Arnsberg for being upset, but this was coming. I just want to know who had the grudge against Arn. Was it Beinfest? Was it Loria? or Was it Samson?

This line has me wondering about a conspiracy theory or just someone who just wanted to win so bad and took a chance. We all know who he's talkin about

"You screwed your own investment, Jeffrey," Arnsberg yelled. "You screwed your own investment."

The problem I have is this will effect the team on the field, no doubt about it. Also in the PR department. Where I see the talkin pigskin hole are already spraying venene there all through South FL. I still say the move had to made. The way it was handle was very ugly. :nono
 

Wild Card

Muckdog
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
19,020
Reaction score
0
A coach can be a nicer guy than any other coach, he can be better friends than any other coach ever was to you, but when it comes time to get on the field, if he makes the wrong decision, than that's his fault and he will take the fall... As he should...
 

Hotcorner

Muckdog
Moderator
Joined
Aug 22, 2002
Messages
21,690
Reaction score
11
"You screwed your own investment Jerry! You screwed your own investment!!" screamed Arnsberg as Loria and Beinfest speed away in their SUV...

It's like a line from a movie or something....wow.

I assume he's talking about Burnett. That rumor is going to haunt Loria and Beinfest.

The truth will come out eventually, whether it's Berardino who figues it out or someone else. And when it does, I'll wager that it's not going to look good for the front office.

Meanwhile, I don't mind the coaching changes at all. Trader Jack's a good guy. Don't know about hiring a 72-year old though... He might be just a temporary fix until they find someone after the season.

But with Torborg and now McKeon, do you get the feeling this ownership prefers coaches who aren't going to rock the boat much?
 

Wild Card

Muckdog
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
19,020
Reaction score
0
When/if the truth comes out, it most likely won't happen while they are in the Florida front office...
 

jonnylons

Muckdog
Joined
May 10, 2003
Messages
3,168
Reaction score
0
I am not totally confident in what I read in the papers - for good reason. The sources dont have to be identified, and if they were - they could be someone with an axe to grind.

I dont see what sense there is in this rumor that the front office covered up the injury to Burnett. First, Burnett would have felt some pain/discomfort and some of the blame for that should fall on him. Second, if the rumor is true the only reason I see the Marlins forcing Burnett to pitch is so they could keep attendance up - but if AJ had been out for the rest of the season after his DL stint, would attendance figures really have dropped that much? And if treated before the season, would attendance have been adversely effected? And if there was an injury prior to Loria & co. took over, why wasnt it treated and why is Henry (Gammons, listen up) escaping scrutiny?
 

jonnylons

Muckdog
Joined
May 10, 2003
Messages
3,168
Reaction score
0
Should he have gotten fired? I would say NO! He is a great pitcing coach and the pitchers loved him and learned everything he said.
[/quote]
But on another thread you said he should have been. Durable tear has pointed this out, why have you changed your mind? And could you explain both sides of this debate? I dont think Arnsberg should have been fired, but I know he was going to be because Samson seemed to have it in for him. But I want to know why he should have been. :blink:
 

RossInfoMan

Muckdog
Joined
Aug 19, 2002
Messages
2,194
Reaction score
0
AJ, do you have any real opinions or do you just go along with what other people are saying at the time. Does these quotes ring a bell? (they should you said them both):

Yes they should of been fired. They dont know how to manage a bullpen! Arnesberg doesnt know how to work with pitchers...that pitching coach we have now had to work with him while Arnesberg Didnt. What kind of Pitching coach is Arnesberg.
Should he have gotten fired? I would say NO! He is a great pitcing coach and the pitchers loved him and learned everything he said.
 

Das Texan

Loria can kiss my ass
Moderator
VIP
Dasshole
Joined
Aug 18, 2002
Messages
21,361
Reaction score
90
First off....



The Redman injury is not the fault of the pitching coach.



The Beckett injury is not neither...unless mind reading is now a part of the job description.



The Burnett injury you can go one way or the other on.




Arnsberg I dont think was the problem.....but it probably is the best for the team....I wish Brad the best and hope he can catch on with a job with another organization....he seems to have a great rapport with his staff.
 

AJBurnett34

Muckdog
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
4,645
Reaction score
0
AJ, do you have any real opinions or do you just go along with what other people are saying at the time. Does these quotes ring a bell? (they should you said them both):
Is that the article i posted changed my mind completely!
 

DurableTear

Muckdog
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Messages
6,213
Reaction score
0
AJ, do you have any real opinions or do you just go along with what other people are saying at the time. Does these quotes ring a bell? (they should you said them both):
Is that the article i posted changed my mind completely! AJ.. you change your darn mind for an article?


what happen if an article with the headline like this came out:


Jumping off a bridge may help economically


then your gonna agree with jumping off a bridge? :rolleyes:
 

Rune

Muckdog
Joined
Aug 19, 2002
Messages
6,260
Reaction score
0
LMAO!

Anything to get creditors off my back
 

Wild Card

Muckdog
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
19,020
Reaction score
0
Will that really help econaomically? Cause I know of a few small bridges...lol
 

AJBurnett34

Muckdog
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
4,645
Reaction score
0
AJ.. you change your darn mind for an article?
Yea because they said things that were true. Pitchers loved him and didnt want him to leave. He has taught them good things about pitching and he shouldnt of gotten Fired.
 

jonnylons

Muckdog
Joined
May 10, 2003
Messages
3,168
Reaction score
0
Das Texan and AJ (who seems to have just changed his mind) I agree with both of you. I have said that Arnsberg did not deserve to be fired, but seemed to be more of a scapegoat - at least from the things I have read and seen. I admit that there is a bias in the media towards sensationalizing things and they seem to enjoy tearing at Loria, but what has been presented I have not seen anything to believe why he should have been fired. I have asked others to provide some details that support firing Arnsberg, but I have yet to hear back or see anything that supports such a view. Gotta say, Arnsberg did not deserve to be fired at this point...
 

Das Texan

Loria can kiss my ass
Moderator
VIP
Dasshole
Joined
Aug 18, 2002
Messages
21,361
Reaction score
90
The excuse that has been thrown around involves injuries to the starters.....




If you want to look at a 'valid' reason...




It would be the problems of the bullpen....however since sending down Nunez and Neal a few weeks back...those problems have seemed to be improving....
 

Top Bottom