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Cab and Hanley in Top 6

bollostar

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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/base...irst/index.html

Here are the Marlins' players that made it onto their list.

Note: The number in parenthesis is where the player ranked in last year's Top 50

No. 6. Hanley Ramirez, SS, Marlins, Age 23 (NR)
As much as I like Reyes, however, I like Ramirez a little bit better. The two shortstops had nearly identical numbers last year and they have nearly identical numbers this year, but Ramirez has two small advantages. First, he's six months younger. Second, he's at least three inches taller, which means that his bat has more projectibility from a power perspective. Reyes and Ramirez are extremely close in value -- you can call them No. 6 and No. 6a if you want. But if Ramirez were in New York and Reyes in Florida, the presumption would be that Hanley is the better player.

No. 4. Miguel Cabrera, 3B, Marlins, Age 24 (4)
Cabrera invariably gets profiled as Manny Ramirez v2.0, and in terms of his ability to drive in runs, that's pretty fair. PECOTA anticipates that Cabrera will have 932 career RBIs by the time he completes his age-28 season; only 10 players in baseball history are ahead of that pace. But while Manny was always an oaf in the field, Cabrera not only plays third base, but he plays it pretty darn well. He's less exciting than the Sizemores and the Reyeses, but in terms of pure production, Cabrera's the man.

Honorable Mention:

Dontrelle Willis, P, Marlins, Age 25 (42)
There's nothing to worry about. D-Train's ERA is high but his peripheral statistics are right in line with his career averages. He's simply been lapped by a lot of the other young talent coming into the league.
 

djm305

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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/base...irst/index.html

Here are the Marlins' players that made it onto their list.

Note: The number in parenthesis is where the player ranked in last year's Top 50

No. 6. Hanley Ramirez, SS, Marlins, Age 23 (NR)
As much as I like Reyes, however, I like Ramirez a little bit better. The two shortstops had nearly identical numbers last year and they have nearly identical numbers this year, but Ramirez has two small advantages. First, he's six months younger. Second, he's at least three inches taller, which means that his bat has more projectibility from a power perspective. Reyes and Ramirez are extremely close in value -- you can call them No. 6 and No. 6a if you want. But if Ramirez were in New York and Reyes in Florida, the presumption would be that Hanley is the better player.

No. 4. Miguel Cabrera, 3B, Marlins, Age 24 (4)
Cabrera invariably gets profiled as Manny Ramirez v2.0, and in terms of his ability to drive in runs, that's pretty fair. PECOTA anticipates that Cabrera will have 932 career RBIs by the time he completes his age-28 season; only 10 players in baseball history are ahead of that pace. But while Manny was always an oaf in the field, Cabrera not only plays third base, but he plays it pretty darn well. He's less exciting than the Sizemores and the Reyeses, but in terms of pure production, Cabrera's the man.

Honorable Mention:

Dontrelle Willis, P, Marlins, Age 25 (42)
There's nothing to worry about. D-Train's ERA is high but his peripheral statistics are right in line with his career averages. He's simply been lapped by a lot of the other young talent coming into the league.


Not sure I agree 100% with that Bolded statement. I would say Cabera is a below AVG third baseman. He has a good glove but his speed and quickness leave something to be desired and there is that question of whether or not he has gotten lazier on the field.
 

Shaq-Man

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No. 6. Hanley Ramirez, SS, Marlins, Age 23 (NR)
As much as I like Reyes, however, I like Ramirez a little bit better. The two shortstops had nearly identical numbers last year and they have nearly identical numbers this year, but Ramirez has two small advantages. First, he's six months younger. Second, he's at least three inches taller, which means that his bat has more projectibility from a power perspective. Reyes and Ramirez are extremely close in value -- you can call them No. 6 and No. 6a if you want. But if Ramirez were in New York and Reyes in Florida, the presumption would be that Hanley is the better player.
I'm glad somebody's willing to say it.

And lol @ David Wright being #8.
 

JonDigital

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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/base...irst/index.html

Here are the Marlins' players that made it onto their list.

Note: The number in parenthesis is where the player ranked in last year's Top 50

No. 6. Hanley Ramirez, SS, Marlins, Age 23 (NR)
As much as I like Reyes, however, I like Ramirez a little bit better. The two shortstops had nearly identical numbers last year and they have nearly identical numbers this year, but Ramirez has two small advantages. First, he's six months younger. Second, he's at least three inches taller, which means that his bat has more projectibility from a power perspective. Reyes and Ramirez are extremely close in value -- you can call them No. 6 and No. 6a if you want. But if Ramirez were in New York and Reyes in Florida, the presumption would be that Hanley is the better player.

No. 4. Miguel Cabrera, 3B, Marlins, Age 24 (4)
Cabrera invariably gets profiled as Manny Ramirez v2.0, and in terms of his ability to drive in runs, that's pretty fair. PECOTA anticipates that Cabrera will have 932 career RBIs by the time he completes his age-28 season; only 10 players in baseball history are ahead of that pace. But while Manny was always an oaf in the field, Cabrera not only plays third base, but he plays it pretty darn well. He's less exciting than the Sizemores and the Reyeses, but in terms of pure production, Cabrera's the man.

Honorable Mention:

Dontrelle Willis, P, Marlins, Age 25 (42)
There's nothing to worry about. D-Train's ERA is high but his peripheral statistics are right in line with his career averages. He's simply been lapped by a lot of the other young talent coming into the league.


Not sure I agree 100% with that Bolded statement. I would say Cabera is a below AVG third baseman. He has a good glove but his speed and quickness leave something to be desired and there is that question of whether or not he has gotten lazier on the field.
I agree. Cabs has looked awful at third base this season. He also looks like he ate a house in the offseason. If he could get his weight down perhaps he would be a more mobile third basebman. He can barely bend over to his left to reach for a ball not hit directly in front of him.
 

JonDigital

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Verducci had an article today along the same lines only it was the top 10 franchise players in baseball. Of course the list is littered with Marlins...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ...tml?eref=si_mlb

1. Miguel Cabrera, 3B, Marlins, 24. In a perfect world I'd prefer someone who plays in the middle of the diamond. But the Florida third baseman is too devastating a hitter to pass up, especially when he continues to get better with each year. Here's his trend line of slugging percentages by year: .468, .512, .561, .568, .618. He is a career .313 hitter who has cut down on his strikeouts, too. Baseball-reference.com says his most similar statistical twin through age 23 is Hank Aaron. That's good enough for me.

4. Hanley Ramirez, SS, Marlins, 23. A half-year younger than Reyes, Ramirez should be battling his NL East counterpart for years when it comes to All-Star selections, Silver Sluggers and stolen base crowns. They are having nearly identical seasons this year. At 6-foot-3, 195 pounds, Ramirez might even hold up better than the more slight Reyes.
 

Cabrerafan

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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/base...irst/index.html

Here are the Marlins' players that made it onto their list.

Note: The number in parenthesis is where the player ranked in last year's Top 50

No. 6. Hanley Ramirez, SS, Marlins, Age 23 (NR)
As much as I like Reyes, however, I like Ramirez a little bit better. The two shortstops had nearly identical numbers last year and they have nearly identical numbers this year, but Ramirez has two small advantages. First, he's six months younger. Second, he's at least three inches taller, which means that his bat has more projectibility from a power perspective. Reyes and Ramirez are extremely close in value -- you can call them No. 6 and No. 6a if you want. But if Ramirez were in New York and Reyes in Florida, the presumption would be that Hanley is the better player.

No. 4. Miguel Cabrera, 3B, Marlins, Age 24 (4)
Cabrera invariably gets profiled as Manny Ramirez v2.0, and in terms of his ability to drive in runs, that's pretty fair. PECOTA anticipates that Cabrera will have 932 career RBIs by the time he completes his age-28 season; only 10 players in baseball history are ahead of that pace. But while Manny was always an oaf in the field, Cabrera not only plays third base, but he plays it pretty darn well. He's less exciting than the Sizemores and the Reyeses, but in terms of pure production, Cabrera's the man.

Honorable Mention:

Dontrelle Willis, P, Marlins, Age 25 (42)
There's nothing to worry about. D-Train's ERA is high but his peripheral statistics are right in line with his career averages. He's simply been lapped by a lot of the other young talent coming into the league.


Not sure I agree 100% with that Bolded statement. I would say Cabera is a below AVG third baseman. He has a good glove but his speed and quickness leave something to be desired and there is that question of whether or not he has gotten lazier on the field.
I agree. Cabs has looked awful at third base this season. He also looks like he ate a house in the offseason. If he could get his weight down perhaps he would be a more mobile third basebman. He can barely bend over to his left to reach for a ball not hit directly in front of him.

I don't think he's been awful this year at 3rd. There have been plays he should have made, but he's also made some great diving stops. He's got a great arm; he just needs to be more consistent.
 
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/base...irst/index.html

Here are the Marlins' players that made it onto their list.

Note: The number in parenthesis is where the player ranked in last year's Top 50

No. 6. Hanley Ramirez, SS, Marlins, Age 23 (NR)
As much as I like Reyes, however, I like Ramirez a little bit better. The two shortstops had nearly identical numbers last year and they have nearly identical numbers this year, but Ramirez has two small advantages. First, he's six months younger. Second, he's at least three inches taller, which means that his bat has more projectibility from a power perspective. Reyes and Ramirez are extremely close in value -- you can call them No. 6 and No. 6a if you want. But if Ramirez were in New York and Reyes in Florida, the presumption would be that Hanley is the better player.

No. 4. Miguel Cabrera, 3B, Marlins, Age 24 (4)
Cabrera invariably gets profiled as Manny Ramirez v2.0, and in terms of his ability to drive in runs, that's pretty fair. PECOTA anticipates that Cabrera will have 932 career RBIs by the time he completes his age-28 season; only 10 players in baseball history are ahead of that pace. But while Manny was always an oaf in the field, Cabrera not only plays third base, but he plays it pretty darn well. He's less exciting than the Sizemores and the Reyeses, but in terms of pure production, Cabrera's the man.

Honorable Mention:

Dontrelle Willis, P, Marlins, Age 25 (42)
There's nothing to worry about. D-Train's ERA is high but his peripheral statistics are right in line with his career averages. He's simply been lapped by a lot of the other young talent coming into the league.


Not sure I agree 100% with that Bolded statement. I would say Cabera is a below AVG third baseman. He has a good glove but his speed and quickness leave something to be desired and there is that question of whether or not he has gotten lazier on the field.
I agree. Cabs has looked awful at third base this season. He also looks like he ate a house in the offseason. If he could get his weight down perhaps he would be a more mobile third basebman. He can barely bend over to his left to reach for a ball not hit directly in front of him.

I don't think he's been awful this year at 3rd. There have been plays he should have made, but he's also made some great diving stops. He's got a great arm; he just needs to be more consistent.

I agree. I think that he has improved a lot. I've been watching the fish through mlbtv and most of the times i get the feeds from the other teams and they always give him props for his fielding. There are some times that he has done some stupid plays, but for the most part he's been solid.
 

TSwift25

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I love that someone finally gives Hanley the due he deserves.

But, the one thing that stood out big time to me was that Utley was so low...so the list isn't immune to criticism.
 

Out of the Past

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I love that someone finally gives Hanley the due he deserves.

But, the one thing that stood out big time to me was that Utley was so low...so the list isn't immune to criticism.
Do you really think Hanley is the 6th best player? Cabrera deserves his spot but Hanley as No. 6 is ridiculous.
 

TSwift25

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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/base...irst/index.html

Here are the Marlins' players that made it onto their list.

Note: The number in parenthesis is where the player ranked in last year's Top 50

No. 6. Hanley Ramirez, SS, Marlins, Age 23 (NR)
As much as I like Reyes, however, I like Ramirez a little bit better. The two shortstops had nearly identical numbers last year and they have nearly identical numbers this year, but Ramirez has two small advantages. First, he's six months younger. Second, he's at least three inches taller, which means that his bat has more projectibility from a power perspective. Reyes and Ramirez are extremely close in value -- you can call them No. 6 and No. 6a if you want. But if Ramirez were in New York and Reyes in Florida, the presumption would be that Hanley is the better player.

No. 4. Miguel Cabrera, 3B, Marlins, Age 24 (4)
Cabrera invariably gets profiled as Manny Ramirez v2.0, and in terms of his ability to drive in runs, that's pretty fair. PECOTA anticipates that Cabrera will have 932 career RBIs by the time he completes his age-28 season; only 10 players in baseball history are ahead of that pace. But while Manny was always an oaf in the field, Cabrera not only plays third base, but he plays it pretty darn well. He's less exciting than the Sizemores and the Reyeses, but in terms of pure production, Cabrera's the man.

Honorable Mention:

Dontrelle Willis, P, Marlins, Age 25 (42)
There's nothing to worry about. D-Train's ERA is high but his peripheral statistics are right in line with his career averages. He's simply been lapped by a lot of the other young talent coming into the league.


Not sure I agree 100% with that Bolded statement. I would say Cabera is a below AVG third baseman. He has a good glove but his speed and quickness leave something to be desired and there is that question of whether or not he has gotten lazier on the field.
I agree. Cabs has looked awful at third base this season. He also looks like he ate a house in the offseason. If he could get his weight down perhaps he would be a more mobile third basebman. He can barely bend over to his left to reach for a ball not hit directly in front of him.

He hasn't been terrible, and he's certainly produced several "wow" plays to go with a very strong arm.

"Wow" plays got Wright to be held in very high regard despite shortcomings on the routine stuff.

All I'm saying is that Cabrera deserves more credit than we give him relative to his peers because we see him day in and out and only see his peers' highlight reel catches. I have no qualms saying Cabrera's defense does not hurt us.

I love that someone finally gives Hanley the due he deserves.

But, the one thing that stood out big time to me was that Utley was so low...so the list isn't immune to criticism.
Do you really think Hanley is the 6th best player? Cabrera deserves his spot but Hanley as No. 6 is ridiculous.

That's dubious, but the ratings system (read: Reyes high) dictates he has to be there.
 

bollostar

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I love that someone finally gives Hanley the due he deserves.

But, the one thing that stood out big time to me was that Utley was so low...so the list isn't immune to criticism.
Do you really think Hanley is the 6th best player? Cabrera deserves his spot but Hanley as No. 6 is ridiculous.

Well, the rankings were made based on production for the next 6 years, so Hanley's age (given that he's already a beast and should have his best years ahead of him) became a big factor. From that point of view, it isn't a reach at all to have Hanley at #6.
 

pb1300

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Its not that he has been awful at third, its simple, he is lazy. There have been a few plays that he should have made easily by putting his body in front of the ball, not any of this "Ole" BS!
 

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