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Fredi Gonzalez is terrible

AGonzalez11

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i'm the last person to EVER criticize a manager - i stuck up for girardi here last season countless times when posters ripped him for his "poor in-game management".

but the way gonzalez has handled this ballclub is just absolutley disgraceful. the bullpen has some extremely good arms, some of who have been lights out. but he continues to misuse each and every one of them.

tonight is yet another example of it. rain delay - obvious choice to bring in is kevin gregg as he can give you a 2-3 innings no problem. so who does he bring in? of course, matt lindstrom. why the hell does he continue to use lindstrom in the fifth inning and/or blowouts? he has been LIGHTS OUT but still uses him in mop-up situations on a consistent basis. with owens on the DL - this guy should be closing, not coming in the 5th inning.

as if that wasn't enough - he brings in julio of all people with the bases loaded. he has been terribl and two scoreless innings doesn't erase two weeks of horrendous pitching. werent they trying to let him regain his confidence? bringing him in a bases loaded situation in the bottom of the 9th is just setting him up for failure. nice job fredi - really. giving up a grand slam to lose yet ANOTHER game is really going to do wonders for Mr. Julio.

i dont think anyone could have managed this game as poorly as gonzalez did if they tried.

he's been doing this stuff all year - too. his bullpen management is awful. he brings in lindstrom in 5th/6th innings and uses guys like gardner (who can't crack 87 mph) or julio in crucial situations.

his lineups havent been much better, either. can someone tell me why cody ross wasnt in the lineup on a consistent basis(when healthy, of course) over joe .200 hitter borchard? ross is streaky, but when hot is a legitamate threat. borchard is consistent, but consistently awful.

can someone explain to me why he continues to put a .220 hitter who's striking out at an alarming rate in the 2-hole?

like i said - i'm usually the last person to rip a manager for "in-game management" - but i've about had it with gonzalez and we're only a month and a half into the season. just speaks volumes of how bad of a job he has been doing thus far. apperantly, and unfortunatley, not much rubbed off in atlanta.

tankersley did a terrible job in the 9th - but if he had used the bullpen correctly, it never should have come to using tankersley in the 9th. lindstrom is the one who should be closing ballgames and it's pretty obvious - except to fredi of course :thumbdown
 

CapeFish

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Tonight's game is one that can be a catalyst for heads to roll.

Not necessarily Fredi's, but it could put some steam on.

I really hope this afternoon's game is not played so they have to live with this loss for almost 2 days. They deserve to.
 

AGonzalez11

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you know, i didnt even get into alot of other things that are gonzalez' fault.

his non-chalant attitude is ridiculous - especially when dealing with young players. yeah - sometimes you have to know when to lay off, but not to this extent. the message he keeps sending his players is it doesnt matter. and it obviously does.

i was a fan of girardi's because i felt he was very good at mentally preparing this team to play ball. he got alot of criticism for his in-game management and i admit, it wasn't the best. but this team was ready to play each and every day. he kept the players level-headed through good and bad times. whether they were 11-31 or on a 9 game winning streak, they still played the game the way it should be played.

under gonzalez, they are not. the slopiness is astounding. they look like a little league team at times. how many times have we seen guys run through stop signs and get thrown out at the plate? how many times have we seen awful defensive gaffes compared to last year? they arent mentally prepared to play. it's often a problem with young players, which in fredi's defense, we have alot of them, but this WAS NOT A PROBLEM LAST YEAR.

add on top that his in-game decisions are JUST AS BAD - if not worse than girardi's and you've got yourself an absolutley awful manager. i'm up the wall with this clown already and we aren't even halfway through the season...god save me.

i don't want to turn this into a girardi thread at ALL - that ship has sailed. but i think you're starting to see the inexperience in these players and alot of it is due to poor management. poor leadership. gonzalez is brutal in my book. he does absolutley nothing for this team. it's a little early to pass judgement, but so far, so bad for fredi.
 

LordMagnus

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Yeah my biggest problem with Fredi is that he doesn't give the impression that he even cares.

What we need is to get John Boles back and just sit there and stare at everyone as they sit on the bench, and his massive owl-like eyes will scare the living @#$# out of them to play better.
 

AGonzalez11

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I didn't watch the bottom of the 9th inning, but I was there for the rest of the game. The only two things I fault Gonzalez for tonight:

1. Starting Abercrombie
2. Handing Julio the baseball


Although I can't say for sure, the fact that those two happened are perhaps more Beinfest's fault than anyone else's.

the one thing i dont really fault him for is starting abercrombie. he is awful - but so is amezaga vs. lefthanded pitching, so...whatever. you were one of the many ripping girardi for his bullpen management last year so i'm sure you've heard me say it before...can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t no matter how much mayonnaise you put in it. whoever he put out to patrol center would have been just as bad as abercrombie. it's easy to second guess now that abercrombie ran through a maze to get to kearns' ISTPHR, but amezaga hasn't exactly been andruw jones out there either.

Yeah my biggest problem with Fredi is that he doesn't give the impression that he even cares.

What we need is to get John Boles back and just sit there and stare at everyone as they sit on the bench, and his massive owl-like eyes will scare the living @#$# out of them to play better.

i remember watching the game vs. milwalkee that was resumed the next day in extras and thinking the same thing.

the marlins players were CLEARLY swinging for the fences to end the game on a walk-off blast. any half-decent manager would have been in those players faces for doing it. instead, gonzalez just sits there looking like a deer in the headlights. needless to say, milwalkee won the game with a rally.

anyway, i'm done ranting. fredi is going to have alot of work to do to get off my sh*t list.
 

louiecastillo1

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McKeon was far from perfect and that 2005 team certainly did underachieve, but he's the guy I'd ideally want to see managing right now.

Mckeon was a good manager but i don't think he's right for this particular group.
 

TEXAS

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i'm the last person to EVER criticize a manager - i stuck up for girardi here last season countless times when posters ripped him for his "poor in-game management".

but the way gonzalez has handled this ballclub is just absolutley disgraceful. the bullpen has some extremely good arms, some of who have been lights out. but he continues to misuse each and every one of them.

tonight is yet another example of it. rain delay - obvious choice to bring in is kevin gregg as he can give you a 2-3 innings no problem. so who does he bring in? of course, matt lindstrom. why the hell does he continue to use lindstrom in the fifth inning and/or blowouts? he has been LIGHTS OUT but still uses him in mop-up situations on a consistent basis. with owens on the DL - this guy should be closing, not coming in the 5th inning.

as if that wasn't enough - he brings in julio of all people with the bases loaded. he has been terribl and two scoreless innings doesn't erase two weeks of horrendous pitching. werent they trying to let him regain his confidence? bringing him in a bases loaded situation in the bottom of the 9th is just setting him up for failure. nice job fredi - really. giving up a grand slam to lose yet ANOTHER game is really going to do wonders for Mr. Julio.

i dont think anyone could have managed this game as poorly as gonzalez did if they tried.

he's been doing this stuff all year - too. his bullpen management is awful. he brings in lindstrom in 5th/6th innings and uses guys like gardner (who can't crack 87 mph) or julio in crucial situations.

his lineups havent been much better, either. can someone tell me why cody ross wasnt in the lineup on a consistent basis(when healthy, of course) over joe .200 hitter borchard? ross is streaky, but when hot is a legitamate threat. borchard is consistent, but consistently awful.

can someone explain to me why he continues to put a .220 hitter who's striking out at an alarming rate in the 2-hole?

like i said - i'm usually the last person to rip a manager for "in-game management" - but i've about had it with gonzalez and we're only a month and a half into the season. just speaks volumes of how bad of a job he has been doing thus far. apperantly, and unfortunatley, not much rubbed off in atlanta.

tankersley did a terrible job in the 9th - but if he had used the bullpen correctly, it never should have come to using tankersley in the 9th. lindstrom is the one who should be closing ballgames and it's pretty obvious - except to fredi of course :thumbdown
I have to agree with you espically when it comes to letten Ross sit on the bench and rot. The kid has proved that he's a threat anytime he at the plate. I honestly believe that he would be leading this team with HR if he was in the line up. The hams is Gonzales fault, there was no reason not to play Ross everyday.

TEXAS
 

Beinfest4Prez

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i'm the last person to EVER criticize a manager - i stuck up for girardi here last season countless times when posters ripped him for his "poor in-game management".

but the way gonzalez has handled this ballclub is just absolutley disgraceful. the bullpen has some extremely good arms, some of who have been lights out. but he continues to misuse each and every one of them.

tonight is yet another example of it. rain delay - obvious choice to bring in is kevin gregg as he can give you a 2-3 innings no problem. so who does he bring in? of course, matt lindstrom. why the hell does he continue to use lindstrom in the fifth inning and/or blowouts? he has been LIGHTS OUT but still uses him in mop-up situations on a consistent basis. with owens on the DL - this guy should be closing, not coming in the 5th inning.

as if that wasn't enough - he brings in julio of all people with the bases loaded. he has been terribl and two scoreless innings doesn't erase two weeks of horrendous pitching. werent they trying to let him regain his confidence? bringing him in a bases loaded situation in the bottom of the 9th is just setting him up for failure. nice job fredi - really. giving up a grand slam to lose yet ANOTHER game is really going to do wonders for Mr. Julio.

i dont think anyone could have managed this game as poorly as gonzalez did if they tried.

he's been doing this stuff all year - too. his bullpen management is awful. he brings in lindstrom in 5th/6th innings and uses guys like gardner (who can't crack 87 mph) or julio in crucial situations.

his lineups havent been much better, either. can someone tell me why cody ross wasnt in the lineup on a consistent basis(when healthy, of course) over joe .200 hitter borchard? ross is streaky, but when hot is a legitamate threat. borchard is consistent, but consistently awful.

can someone explain to me why he continues to put a .220 hitter who's striking out at an alarming rate in the 2-hole?

like i said - i'm usually the last person to rip a manager for "in-game management" - but i've about had it with gonzalez and we're only a month and a half into the season. just speaks volumes of how bad of a job he has been doing thus far. apperantly, and unfortunatley, not much rubbed off in atlanta.

tankersley did a terrible job in the 9th - but if he had used the bullpen correctly, it never should have come to using tankersley in the 9th. lindstrom is the one who should be closing ballgames and it's pretty obvious - except to fredi of course :thumbdown
I have to agree with you espically when it comes to letten Ross sit on the bench and rot. The kid has proved that he's a threat anytime he at the plate. I honestly believe that he would be leading this team with HR if he was in the line up. The hams is Gonzales fault, there was no reason not to play Ross everyday.

TEXAS
Well one problem; Ross can't play because he's on the DL. :|
 
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I support Fredi, but he hasn't been that great of a manager. Then again, our management is the one that axed the NL Manager of the Year so they got what they wanted.
 

Ramp

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as if that wasn't enough - he brings in julio of all people with the bases loaded. he has been terribl and two scoreless innings doesn't erase two weeks of horrendous pitching. werent they trying to let him regain his confidence? bringing him in a bases loaded situation in the bottom of the 9th is just setting him up for failure. nice job fredi - really. giving up a grand slam to lose yet ANOTHER game is really going to do wonders for Mr. Julio.

i dont think anyone could have managed this game as poorly as gonzalez did if they tried.

he's been doing this stuff all year - too. his bullpen management is awful. he brings in lindstrom in 5th/6th innings and uses guys like gardner (who can't crack 87 mph) or julio in crucial situations.

his lineups havent been much better, either. can someone tell me why cody ross wasnt in the lineup on a consistent basis(when healthy, of course) over joe .200 hitter borchard? ross is streaky, but when hot is a legitamate threat. borchard is consistent, but consistently awful.

can someone explain to me why he continues to put a .220 hitter who's striking out at an alarming rate in the 2-hole?

like i said - i'm usually the last person to rip a manager for "in-game management" - but i've about had it with gonzalez and we're only a month and a half into the season. just speaks volumes of how bad of a job he has been doing thus far. apperantly, and unfortunatley, not much rubbed off in atlanta.

tankersley did a terrible job in the 9th - but if he had used the bullpen correctly, it never should have come to using tankersley in the 9th. lindstrom is the one who should be closing ballgames and it's pretty obvious - except to fredi of course :thumbdown
A few responses...

I think you are being naive in thinking that it's his choice that Julio keeps getting thrust into big situations.

Cody Ross wasn't playing vs righties because in his career, this is his line vs them: .202/.271/.311..... Hate on Borchard all day long but his career line vs righties is better (.231/.319/.429).

As for Uggla in the 2 hole. Who the hell do you want there? I mean seriously... A bunch of us are hoping Hermida can take over that spot in a few weeks, but right now who do you want in the 2 whole.

And come on. Tankersley is a pretty damn good pitcher. Him and Lindstrom are a tossup as to who are better, and going into last night, Tank's numbers were better
 

Out of the Past

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Tankersley is a pretty damn good pitcher. Him and Lindstrom are a tossup as to who are better, and going into last night, Tank's numbers were better
Tank is very good as a situational leftie but his career numbers vs righties are terrible and if he closes about 4 out 5 hiters he faces will be righties. Tank closing is a recipe for failure. His career WHIP vs righties is 1.77 and that blows.
 

fanofthefish

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I say you blame Bill Robinson or Brad Arnsberg that always seemed to work in the past, it has to there fault oh yeah Jeff Cox stinks as a third base coach blame him too. :blink:
 

Ramp

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Tankersley is a pretty damn good pitcher. Him and Lindstrom are a tossup as to who are better, and going into last night, Tank's numbers were better
Tank is very good as a situational leftie but his career numbers vs righties are terrible and if he closes about 4 out 5 hiters he faces will be righties. Tank closing is a recipe for failure. His career WHIP vs righties is 1.77 and that blows.
career vs righties: .222/.368/.300

yea, the walks are high, but they still aren't hitting him
 

anotherrealfan

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i'm the last person to EVER criticize a manager - i stuck up for girardi here last season countless times when posters ripped him for his "poor in-game management".

but the way gonzalez has handled this ballclub is just absolutley disgraceful. the bullpen has some extremely good arms,

Exactly, I have yet to criticize Fredi-cause I feel that he was one of the best candidates for a managers job. But, yesterday, the choice for Julio was just terrible. Can't even blame Jorge. I know Fredi may have some pressure to use him but I have to doubt that someone called down yesterday and he was told to put him in that situation. Here we have a pitcher who has had trouble throwing strikes and when he does he gets rocked. Those two outings this week in non pressure situations notwithstanding-this was a lose lose for Jorge. He does not want to walk in the winning run so you know he will be extra deliberate, which usually results in a fat pitch-viola. And yes, I have no way of knowing if Fredi gets on these guys for screwing up, but I can only hope he isn't patting them on the butt saying, good job guys, I know you are trying.
 

TSwift25

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This is all I'm going to say...the manager's job is to put the team in the best situation to win. Gonzalez has not had a fully healthy team, therefore it is not fair to say he is doing his job improperly.

Do I like him? No. Do I think he is a subpar manager? Yes. Do I think that he has probably lost us 4-5 games already because of his bullpen management? Absolutely.

But, it's premature to call for his job.

I go back to my rant against Presley and Kranitz. Both of those coaches have left their players continually exposed as unprepared. The offense has set a modern record for being no hit into the 5th inning in its first 30 games. The pitching staff as a unit is among the worst in baseball. One of those guys has to go to send a wakeup message to this team, unless the FO has decided long ago that we're just playing for a draft pick, at which point, I just don't care.
 

FutureGM

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I do get that same feeling that Gonzalez is acting pretty non-chalant about his players' performance. What this team really needs now is a closed-door clubhouse shakedown, which worked pretty well last year with Girardi.
 

MarlinsLou

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I didn't watch the bottom of the 9th inning, but I was there for the rest of the game. The only two things I fault Gonzalez for tonight:

1. Starting Abercrombie
2. Handing Julio the baseball

Although I can't say for sure, the fact that those two happened are perhaps more Beinfest's fault than anyone else's.
Bullseye
 

Trey05Marlins

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I do get that same feeling that Gonzalez is acting pretty non-chalant about his players' performance. What this team really needs now is a closed-door clubhouse shakedown, which worked pretty well last year with Girardi.

I completely agree. In fact, I wouldn't mind a closed door or an opened door or a tirade to the media Jim Leyland style. This team needs to find the passion and enthusiasm from last year. Outside of Hanley I haven't seen it
 

Ramp

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as it's been said.... it would be nice to see what Fredi could do with a full deck and not a bunch of bench players and AAAA players starting everyday
 

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