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Here we go blame ownership for the trades

Teal Shadow

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:banghead I know alot of fans will jump ship, when all this goes down in a month or so and blaming Loria and co. It's going to be the easy way to point the finger at the top. right??? wrong look in the mirror. The fan base down here has turn its back on this team since 97' and the media just been adding fuel to the fire. Let see the source of revenue

1.ticket sales(4-5000 season ticket holder) boy that right there pays the grounds crew and the bat boys.

2.Stadium ad's? nothing goes to the back to the banks or Wayne big fat walet

3.Sales of the team's gear? Have you seen a list (rankings most likely at the bottom of merchandise sold) and outside of SFLa do you see sales of the team? not much?

4.Food, Beer, and Parking money? Wayne gets all if not most of it, the little we get we pay Billy the Marlin.

5.Money from MLB? Here's where they get all there revenue right? Yes and No 10-15 million of it yes but the payroll is at 50 million

So lets recap the Marlins ownership gets a bag of peanuts and box popcorn to keep this team going.... No but the owner should absorb those loss....He's a owner with all that money......He can pay?.......wrong just because a guy has some extra zeros next to his name doesn't mean he can pay for everything or sit there and watch all those zeros disappear.

Bottomline is 3 owner in the last 6 years and we still blame ownership? look in the mirror

Answer? A new stadium? Yes... but it hasn't help Detroit or Pittsburg? Why? the farm system and your young vet have to be strong going into a new stadium. Who does Detroit have to sign to a long term deal? a superstar? NOBODY...ala Philly they'll go into a new stadium with there young core sign long term and strong farm system...San Diego? No they'll try to sign three or four vets but they don't have a strong young core

How can we get a new stadium? Ownership/city and county/state have to come to a partnership and form a plan to build it together....Will Loria pay? that's the million dollar ? I don't know John Herny YES but Loria I don't know

Why blame the fans? No public out cry to fix this problem? no support, they figure the problem will get fix by itself. If it doesn't effect them they don't care

So look in the mirror before casting the first stone to the top...just read this statement
*Commissioner Katy Sorensen said building a stadium "is way down my list of priorities. We have so many infrastructure needs we'll have to address with a bond issue. Besides, THE MARLINS NO LONGER EVEN HAVE A FAN BASE."
 

Marlins2003

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The obvious answer to the problem Ed is for Dade County (er, Miami-Dade County, how silly of me) to buy PPS and level the playing field for both franschises.

Of course that would require a willing seller which Wayne is not. We're stuck with John Henry's deal, and Huizenga seems unwilling to do anything to aid the Marlins.

It makes you wonder whatever happen to civic duty and all that stuff?

Funny thing is in this economy it might even make sense for WH to cash out of PPS. Perhaps the tax implications (all that depreciation) or for some other reason, but it's inconceivable to me that a deal couldn't be fashioned that provided the Dolphins and WH with everything they WANT and still provide the Marlins with what they NEED. Add a roof and you have a year round sports facility that would make us all proud and give two teams a chance to flourish.

Maybe with Wayne it just comes down to not wanting to share the sports dollars in south Florida with anyone else. As long as the Marlins can limp along and pay their rent perhaps in Wayne's mind that's the best of all worlds. By keeping the rent high and not sharing the ancilliary profit-centers the tenant remains on life support and that minimizes the chance of the tenant competing for sports dollars. He gets paid rent, he gets virtually all the parking receipts and most of the food profits, hey a guy could do worse.

But at the same time I'm reminded of a gentleman by the name of Gulbenkian who was known as "Mr. 1%", the first broker of middle east oil. As his nickname implies, he got 1% of the price of all the oil pumped out the region. Funny thng is his first deal was for 30%, and then 10% and then 4% etc. He realized in a growing market he could make more money taking a smaller piece of each transaction if there were many more transactions.

Like so many of the problems of the Marlins, they rest at the feet of John Henry and the atrocious way he conducted the affairs of the Florida Marlins.
 

Wild Card

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look in the mirror
Why do you keep saying, "look in the mirror"? You are talking to the fans who HAVEN'T walked out on this franchise. Go find the ones who no longer support this team, not the people in this forums, and show them this post... :banghead
 

Teal Shadow

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Wild Card I know there alot of fans here that support the team both going to games and letting there voices be heard.....BUT do you think everybody that post here go to games or stand up for there team? NO they know, how bout those that just don't log on and post....guests(casual fans) thats who I'm talking about :plain
 

Fish Fillet

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I'm sick and tired of apologists for Loria and Henry. There is no way you dump the blame for 6 years of atrocious baseball and blundering ownership on the fans.

Anyone ever heard of due dilligence? Any owner who purchased the team after 97' knew exactly what he was getting: a poorly staffed team in an inhospitable market with a disgruntled and ever dwindling fan base. Whether the owner doesn't want to spend or can't afford to spend is immaterial. They know going in what type of financial climate the franchise exists in. Why am I to feel sorry of Loria when he doesn't get stadium-generated revenue? He knew this going in, and formulated (I hope) a business plan which should of taken into consideration this fact. If he (or Henry) didn't like the deal then they should of stayed away.

There is no reason why fans of a consistently underperforming franchise should flock like lemmings to spend cash on a team this cannot be repaired under current ownership. Watch the games? Sure I do. Buy a ticket, drop some cash on merchandise? Not on your life.

As for the stadium, I can't blame Miami-Dade or any other civic government who tells the Marlins to bug off. Local goverments see the same thing the fans do, why would they put up anything to get this team in their backyard? This, coupled with the fact that it's now evindet that a new stadium isn't the savior it was once thought to be makes a new facility a fantasy.

Overall, every problem you see and hear about stems either directly or indirectly from incompetent and misguided ownership. Nothing else.
 

Teal Shadow

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This is what I'm talkin about people like Fish Fillet. I don't care... its not my problem.

*"Whether the owner doesn't want to spend or can't afford to spend is immaterial." really immaterial wrong its everything, yeah lets get another onwer. I don't like this guy

*"They know going in what type of financial climate the franchise exists in. Why am I to feel sorry of Loria when he doesn't get stadium-generated revenue? He knew this going in, and formulated (I hope) a business plan which should of taken into consideration this fact. If he (or Henry) didn't like the deal then they should of stayed away." Yeah they are more billionaires out there...right? wrong Disney just got out and Time AOL is trying to get out

*"There is no reason why fans of a consistently underperforming franchise should flock like lemmings to spend cash on a team this cannot be repaired under current ownership. Watch the games? Sure I do. Buy a ticket, drop some cash on merchandise? Not on your life."
Wild Card you wanted an example here he is...see guys just want that Xbox team with superstars and a championship at the end of the tunnel...not go out and enjoy the game...not on your lifetime

*"Overall, every problem you see and hear about stems either directly or indirectly from incompetent and misguided ownership. Nothing else. "
Here you go local media theme....it won't change, did anybody here the negative crap before Loria and co. even landed in SFla.

Fish Fillet have a nice day
 

Fish Fillet

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Edcanes....

1) You are right, it's not my problem. Kind of the old maxim "fool me once shame on you, fool twice shame on me".

2) Yeah, we need a new owner. And yes, I don't like the guy. Why is that so unreasonable to wish that a frugal owner with a tragically unsuccessful track record get out of town?

3) AOl Time Warner / Disney billionaire owners? No, just an owner that acknowledges a little thing we call reality and doesn't think that he, unlike everyone before him, can change the baseball situation in SoFl without spending a dime. Another old maxim: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."

4) An X-Box team? No, just having some semblance of a shot at contention over the span of 5 years would suit me just fine. If I wanted an X-Box all-star dynasty I certainly wouldn't be following the Marlins.

5) Local media conspiracy? What is so biased about reporting the Marlins' position in the standings (12 games out in May) or their performance since 97 (how many games under .500?) or their revolving door of players they won't pay for? The list goes on and on. I think it is a little far-fetched to think that all the local (and national) media outlets are "out to get" an organization that is so far out of the public's attention span that 9 out of 10 people in SoFl couldn't name more than two players on the squad. At best, your consiracy theory about the media is just them reflecting the current public sentiment towards the Marlins, which is mostly deserved.
 

Teal Shadow

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Lets see new owner who Paul Allen?, Ted Turner? OK they'll do the same thing...maybe a little different the Wayne way, put all your money in for one run and then break it down...you want to go through that again a championship team or playoff team being rip apart....what's the difference between that and what they might do? are they winning? are they in top of NL let alone the NL east? NO, baseball isNOT football you have a farm system to replish your team if a player doesn't work out or you have money trouble to pay him. The problem with Florida is they are not the A's or Twins with a strong GM. Who keeps winning and replace pieces with there farm system. Beinfest IMO is still a? but this next month will make him or break him. The bottomline is winning....has this team being winning? NO

*You are right, it's not my problem. Kind of the old maxim "fool me once shame on you, fool twice shame on me". so why don't you go root for another team? :banghead

*"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result

NO the same result, doing it over and over again to find the right pieces.

*Local media conspiracy? What is so biased about reporting the Marlins' position in the standings (12 games out in May) or their performance since 97 (how many games under .500?) or their revolving door of players they won't pay for? The list goes on and on. I think it is a little far-fetched to think that all the local (and national) media outlets are "out to get" an organization that is so far out of the public's attention span that 9 out of 10 people in SoFl couldn't name more than two players on the squad. At best, your consiracy theory about the media is just them reflecting the current public sentiment towards the Marlins, which is mostly deserved

What are you leaving under a rock? The local media public enemy 1# (radio pigskin idoits) Those fool trash everything the Marlins do. "Dempster is and was a great pitcher for the Marlins" yeah OK hey how bout that Cliff Floyd on one leg in that NY OF, or Clement what is he 2-6, Who would you like to have Clement or D.Willis? They never give this team the benefit of the doubt. If its God's team the Dolphins, oooo no they do no wrong everything they do is gold....really have they won a Super Bowl lately? please open your eyes or better yet open your ears
 

Hotcorner

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Fish Fillet did you notice when Wayne Huizenga AND when John Henry were selling the team, there weren't exactly people lining up who wanted ownership in the team. Don Smiley tried, other groups tried, and no one could afford it. Henry finally did and where did he get us?

At the LEAST, Loria has said that he's in this for the long haul and that job #1 is to make the community understand that the Marlins aren't going anywhere. Whether people believe him is another story, but John Henry whined almost from day 1, "if I don't get a stadium this team can't survive and I'll sell it".

It's the owner & GM who need to take responsibility when players are traded away, but they have to play with the hand they're dealt, and most teams have to work within some kind of payroll framework. Unfortunately ours is lower than most, but I will go on record as saying I would rather have a baseball team I can complain about than no team at all.

So who's saying you should feel sorry for Loria anyway? If you like baseball go out and watch games, simple as that. And why in the world would you dub this franchise "consistently underperforming"? You can't underperform if you have low payroll.
 

Hotcorner

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4) An X-Box team? No, just having some semblance of a shot at contention over the span of 5 years would suit me just fine.
You didn't think last year's team had a shot at contention?
 

Ramp

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anyway, in an XBox team, DLee and Pudge contribute..... :lol
 

DurableTear

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You can't really blame Loria and co. about the on going problem. This whole thing started with WAYNE and Henry. Wayne killed the fan base. Henry bitched about everything, at least Loria did something.. has he gone on TV and said "build me a stadium now or I'll sell it!"

The second problem is Miami-Dade County.. or as I call it... Flood Zone ( :lol )... After WAYNE killed this franchise.. I believe this team has no future.. might as well move it...

Loria aian't going to spend BIG bucks of course.. he'll lose more... and it's a business.. no owner will break his bank to help a franchise...
 

Jrod1

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:banghead I know alot of fans will jump ship, when all this goes down in a month or so and blaming Loria and co. It's going to be the easy way to point the finger at the top. right??? wrong look in the mirror. The fan base down here has turn its back on this team since 97' and the media just been adding fuel to the fire. Let see the source of revenue

1.ticket sales(4-5000 season ticket holder) boy that right there pays the grounds crew and the bat boys.

2.Stadium ad's? nothing goes to the back to the banks or Wayne big fat walet

3.Sales of the team's gear? Have you seen a list (rankings most likely at the bottom of merchandise sold) and outside of SFLa do you see sales of the team? not much?

4.Food, Beer, and Parking money? Wayne gets all if not most of it, the little we get we pay Billy the Marlin.

5.Money from MLB? Here's where they get all there revenue right? Yes and No 10-15 million of it yes but the payroll is at 50 million

So lets recap the Marlins ownership gets a bag of peanuts and box popcorn to keep this team going.... No but the owner should absorb those loss....He's a owner with all that money......He can pay?.......wrong just because a guy has some extra zeros next to his name doesn't mean he can pay for everything or sit there and watch all those zeros disappear.

Bottomline is 3 owner in the last 6 years and we still blame ownership? look in the mirror

Answer? A new stadium? Yes... but it hasn't help Detroit or Pittsburg? Why? the farm system and your young vet have to be strong going into a new stadium. Who does Detroit have to sign to a long term deal? a superstar? NOBODY...ala Philly they'll go into a new stadium with there young core sign long term and strong farm system...San Diego? No they'll try to sign three or four vets but they don't have a strong young core

How can we get a new stadium? Ownership/city and county/state have to come to a partnership and form a plan to build it together....Will Loria pay? that's the million dollar ? I don't know John Herny YES but Loria I don't know

Why blame the fans? No public out cry to fix this problem? no support, they figure the problem will get fix by itself. If it doesn't effect them they don't care

So look in the mirror before casting the first stone to the top...just read this statement
*Commissioner Katy Sorensen said building a stadium "is way down my list of priorities. We have so many infrastructure needs we'll have to address with a bond issue. Besides, THE MARLINS NO LONGER EVEN HAVE A FAN BASE."
hey ed, that is a great post.

that is how i always felt. baseball is all a business, do you really think they care if you (the fans) have castillo or lowell if you arent showing up to games.
 

Das Texan

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you know the thing though is that baseball has not always been a business for many organizations.



Many storied franchises were more like a family, both with the players and with the cities they played in.



Perhaps more of that is needed.



And a little less 'business'
 

Jrod1

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you know the thing though is that baseball has not always been a business for many organizations.



Many storied franchises were more like a family, both with the players and with the cities they played in.



Perhaps more of that is needed.



And a little less 'business'
yea it was in the past but now it is more of a business.

but then again that is what OWNING a team is.

you try to make business

making business = $$$$$

we dont seem to be making much of it as a franchise so why wouldnt the ownership want to change things.
 

Das Texan

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mark cuban does not own the dallas mavericks solely to make money.
 

Jrod1

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mark cuban does not own the dallas mavericks solely to make money.
i know mark cuban loves basketball.

but loria loves baseball

but if cuban starts losing millions of dollars you can bet he will sell that team.

money comes first
 

Das Texan

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then why does cuban match every fine he got and donate it to charity.



cuban spends money to put a winner on the floor...



and he is enjoying every bit of it.
 

Jrod1

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then why does cuban match every fine he got and donate it to charity.



cuban spends money to put a winner on the floor...



and he is enjoying every bit of it.
he enjoying it because they mad it to wester confrence finals.

and cuban is different because he is a multi-billionaire

loria isnt
 

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