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Is the Marlins owner to blame or Loria and Samson?

Teal Shadow

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I posted this question because there not the same even though one carrys the title.

*Loria in the short time he's been here has gotten the local media against him, but IMO he more less is acting like he's being treated. Right or Wrong they never gave him a chance. I'm afraid its not going to get any easier from them.Loria/ Samson might be a total @-holes but the facts are nothing has change since 98', also being that he is not a niiiiiiice guy makes it easier to blame him for what is about to happen.

* The Marlins owners (Wayne, J.Herny, and Loria) have dealt with the same problems NO MONEY coming in(revenue) to keep players. Yeah fans could scream until your there blue in the face. The facts are you need some money coming in to pay the players. Where are the fans? TV rating are up. They trash the owner thinking its him and by doing that it puts them in front of the team, which IMO affects attendance.

Here are some of the goods and bads about each

Wayne(deep pockets) he a bottomline owner so it was pretty clear if he wasn't making a return he was going to get the payroll down to where he made a profit. He did bring a championship with a price. The price get a stadium to keep this team running. He knew what was coming.

J. Henry(so-so deep pockets) nice man. He's mistake was saying what the need to done (build a stadium) and what the result would be if it didn't get done( team would be moved). Henry knew atleast he couldn't compete in the free agent market so he did everthing in his power to get the scouts to get him the top prospects to build this team for the future, so if a stadium was built, those players would be able to stay.

Loria(not so deep pockets) a bottomline owner. He stayed away from asking about a stadium and has stay away from the media headlines. He tried to improve the team with in his own budget. The pudge thing is something alot of baseball people saw coming. first, moving from one league to another takes a year to adjust(Thome is having the same problem) second, he's the man down here,not like it was in Texas. If pudge stay in NL he will be alot better next year too bad it wouldn't be here. Loria has improved the marketing of this team. It hasn't improved attendance though, but he's tried. I've seen more free tickets give aways and more things for the fans at the stadium. The pool idea was a no brainer, I surpirse the other two didn't think of it. Now the way they handle the media is anything. They have to realize they are never going to win, so don't fight back. They made mistake but will they survive those mistake thats the question.


bottomline is I personal don't care for Loria or Samson, IMO they are probable the worst of the three dealing with the media but they are not the problem Until the those that follow this team realize this the better everbody will be.
 

Hotcorner

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When you need increased attendance and increased payroll, which has to happen first?

For whatever reason, this town doesn't have baseball fever. I'm not sure they'd even show up for a winning team. They're convinced we can't hang on to top players, convinced the team won't last, convinced major league baseball is out to get them, convinced this ownership is just another in a line of people out to screw this town.

I think if they'd at least lock up a couple of players to longer contracts it would be a good first step. I don't even think they need to get a new stadium. Put pressure on that A-hole Huizenga to renegotiate the lease deal. Get the team payroll up to around 50 or 55 million, closer to the league average instead of the bottom.
 

Teal Shadow

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Who's fault is that Corner? the Local Media. A casual fan looks at them as the know it all and when all that comes out of there mouth is everything you said its pretty easy to see the results.

As far as signing players(P Wilson, Looper, and CJ) Henry did that and did it get him anywhere no.

The stadium has always been the problem Wayne is not going to change a sweet deal for one that is not.
 

Fish Fillet

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Although I don't have much pity for any of the owners, and as hard as it is to say, I guess H. Wayne gets the most.

H. Wayne didn't have the benefit of prior knowledge of how baseball would do in SoFla when he brought the franchise in, which gives him a little bit of a pass, I guess. He did handle the 97 firesale horribly, and could of at least drawn out the process instead of dismantling overnight. The fact he pimps out Pro Robbie and won't renogiate is another negative.1997 may have proved that even with attendance up you can't be competitive in SoFla.

Henry put all is hopes in what is now a suspect theory, that a new stadium is a cure all. He knew going in that getting a stadium would be tough, and even then it's no guarantee that it'll be the cash cow everyone thought it was in the early 90's. His part in the questionable Red Sox-Marlins-Expos deal is another negative. Losing Dombrowski was another. Henry's Marlin years were a training camp, now he's been called up to the big time with the Sox. He, like Loria, gets very little pity, since there was an established record of poor financial performace by the Fish when he bought the team.

As for Loria, I just don't understand why he's here. He traded a team with the exact same problems as the Marlins, only the Expos are a certainty to be moved, while the Marlins are not. The one-year contract idea is a debacle, and he's looking at another firestorm after the trading deadline this year. I get the feeling he's trying to survive until the Marlins have one decent year of contending, then he unveils some type of stadium deal/ultimatum when there is a tinge of fan support. I just can't think of any other justification for Loria being here, outside of the conspiracy theories, which are a little far fetched, to say the least.
 

Hotcorner

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As far as signing players(P Wilson, Looper, and CJ) Henry did that and did it get him anywhere no.

The stadium has always been the problem Wayne is not going to change a sweet deal for one that is not.
Yeah, true enough...

By the way, Scott Ferrell (the new morning guy on WQAM) loves the Marlins and talks about them a lot.
 

Marlins Bandit

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I just want to point out for Das that you made a point last time to mention Mark Cuban and his spending for success. Well ESPN mentioned last night that with all his spending, and he is in the salary cap NBA, the Mavs will still lose 35-40 million this year. You think Loria can afford that. Nice comparison you made genius.
 

Hotcorner

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H. Wayne didn't have the benefit of prior knowledge of how baseball would do in SoFla when he brought the franchise in, which gives him a little bit of a pass, I guess. He did handle the 97 firesale horribly, and could of at least drawn out the process instead of dismantling overnight. The fact he pimps out Pro Robbie and won't renogiate is another negative.1997 may have proved that even with attendance up you can't be competitive in SoFla.
You know what else stinks about the way Wayne dismantled the '97 team? Normally if a team wins the world series the attendance is going to enjoy a huge gain the following season. Season tickets soar, local support goes up, everyone come out to see your world champion Marlins! Instead the VERY NEXT SEASON the attendance went right back down into the toilet. It was almost a joke to look at the remaining team and call it the defending champs. They didn't get to reap any of the benefits of the world series title. Who was going to go out to buy season tickets to watch a minor league team play?
 

Fish Fillet

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I saw that feature on ESPN last night, too.

I think the only profitable strategy in MLB for most markets is this:

1) Buy team for lets say, $250 mil
2) Operate team frugally, lose $15 mil a year for 5 years
3) Sell team for $350mil 5 years after purchase
4) Gross $25 mil profit over the time of ownership.
 

Das Texan

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sorry I didnt catch ESPN last night, I was kinda busy. My bad.



I offered Cuban simply as a model for a different type of owner, one that doesnt give a damn about the bottom line and simply wants to see his team win.



Too many owners are simply ruled by the bottomline, which is unfortunate....But that is also business...you cant live with no profits and survive.


Baseball owners continue to lose money, revenue continues to stagnate. You would think something drastic would occur. Altering the all star game is not going to do that.


When a couple of franchises go bankrupt, things will change. The Marlins could be one of the first teams to vist bankrupcity court.


What point are you trying to prove MarlinsBandit???


That the points I make do not fit into your nice little world?


Comparing Cuban to Loria is comparing apples to oranges, we know that. Bringing up Cuban was an example of an owner who doesnt give a damn about the bottom dollar, and/or using your franchise more as a tax write off than anything.
 

Marlins Bandit

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What point are you trying to prove MarlinsBandit???


That the points I make do not fit into your nice little world?
My nice little world? Ha!

No, there are just some people in this world -cough, cough- who are never happy about anything. Baseball, truly is in shambles and the reason for it being in this state, believe it or not, is not Jeffrey Loria.

You make outrageous claims and then try to point them on me in my nice little world? Whats next....you invented the letter T or the semicolon?
 

Das Texan

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I was one of the founders of Microsoft and I currently am serving on an advisory board for President Bush on his Internet security taskforce.
 

Marlins Bandit

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I was one of the founders of Microsoft and I currently am serving on an advisory board for President Bush on his Internet security taskforce.
Yeah I thought so.
 

Das Texan

Loria can kiss my ass
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what a disappointment.


I was expecting something more than that from you.



You are slipping.
 

Teal Shadow

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"As for Loria, I just don't understand why he's here. He traded a team with the exact same problems as the Marlins, only the Expos are a certainty to be moved, while the Marlins are not. The one-year contract idea is a debacle, and he's looking at another firestorm after the trading deadline this year. I get the feeling he's trying to survive until the Marlins have one decent year of contending, then he unveils some type of stadium deal/ultimatum when there is a tinge of fan support. I just can't think of any other justification for Loria being here, outside of the conspiracy theories, which are a little far fetched, to say the least."


WHY IS LORIA HERE? the million dollar question. He wants to be a baseball owner. The Expos like ever other canadian team suffer from that canadian tax that is really hurting those team up there chances to compete. I think Loria bought the Expos to move them, he just wanted to own a team. He was given that chance to stay in baseball and own another team and took it. Conspiracy theory? why to move the team? then why bother spending on ad's and marketing sales to get people to come.
 

Marlins Bandit

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what a disappointment.


I was expecting something more than that from you.



You are slipping.
Sorry, can't hit a HR every time. But of course you expected more. ;)
 

Das Texan

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Yeah you know, how silly of me to expect something showing intelligence from you.
 

Fish Fillet

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If Loria bought the Expos to move them, why isn't he still there? They are moving in the next couple of years, at the latest.

If he wanted to move, why would he gear up the franchise, seek out possible new markets, secure their imminent move, then ditch for the baseball wasteland that is FLA, where he has the same problems as in Montreal, only more advanced.....

Wait a minute, I think I just stumbled onto it......Loria is the set-up guy..... He preps the franchise for a possible move....Yeah, Yeah, that's the ticket.

Why did Loria buy the Marlins? I think that's a question no one can answer for sure, maybe not even Loria himself.
 

Teal Shadow

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WOW Fillet brain you just hit now turn off that light above your head and go work on the world's hurger problems

Now where's Montreal moving to? I didn't catch that....again bring facts to the table
 

Fish Fillet

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Are you honestly going to try to say that the Spos aren't moving? Should I waste 5 minutes going out and finding the seven hundred million articles that declare they are moving within the next two years?

This is a no brainer...I've never seen anyone bury their head in the sand so deep as you, if you honestly believe the Expos are staying put in Montreal. I mean, it's a foregone conclusion!!!

Does anyone else out there side with EdCanes and believe the Expos are staying put?
 

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