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Marlins still searching...

Marlins97+03WC

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The Marlins are looking at David Murphy and the Indians' Franklin Gutierrez as they continue their search for a center fielder.

B.J. Upton and Elijah Dukes would be better options, but the Marlins haven't been able to get anything done with the Rays. There was some speculation last year about Murphy for Taylor Tankersley, but there's little chance that the Marlins would give up the left-hander now. Ricky Nolasco, who was offered up for Upton, is more expendable, but he's still worth a little more than either Murphy or Gutierrez. Perhaps Yusmeiro Petit is a possibility.
Source: FOXSports.com
 

Ralph

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I like Gutierrez. But he seems to have a problem with the K's.
 

CYmarlins

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its good to know that the Marlins are still looking, i've heard mixed things about Murphy and really nothing about Guiterrez. I'm still hoping for the dream trade for Upton though.
 

The_Punisher

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I trully would rather us not get desperate, and wait this out. Options will pen!
 

Marlins2003

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(note to Mods) We have two threads on pretty much the same thing that both quote the same Rosenthal and Roto blurbs.)

None of this is vaguely new, or news, but it will make the rounds as one place after another repeats it.

Maybe someone else has, but I have yet to find one really positive (read authoratative, vs some blog or messageboard post) article on Gutierrez. I read the "good ballplayer but strikes out too much" stuff all the time but nothing that really would indicate to me he's an answer here. Now if Beinfest or his guys see something different and he works out, that's great neither he nor Murphy really have shown they can play at the major league level as opposed to other equivalent options out there not on the Tampa Bay roster.

Speaking of Tampa Bay, it's going to be interesting to watch who does and who doesn't get A team play time and who doesn't, and how Dukes and to a lesser degree Upton will handle themselves if they don't. I'm kinda thinking Tampa is going to relent (not necessarily as it relates to the Marlins) and pull off at least a couple of trades before spring training starts if for no other reason than to clear the air and get people settled into their positions. But one never knows with TB.
 

Ramp

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I like Gutierrez. But he seems to have a problem with the K's.
Agreed, but I would be in favor of Franklin
 

Fishfan79

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I am still hoping for upton because of his upside but I would not mind murphy


Wasnt there information about murphy adding like 15-20 lbs of muscle in the offseason?
 

MarlinsLou

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I am still hoping for upton because of his upside but I would not mind murphy


Wasnt there information about murphy adding like 15-20 lbs of muscle in the offseason?
yes. he wants to hit for more power. He's big (6'3 or 4) so he can probably handle the weight and not get slowed down. I'd still take Guiterrez over him, but either of them would be pretty adequate I imagine.
 

Fishfan79

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Isnt the defense of Murphy considered much better then Guiterrez? Even though Guiterrez has more speed as well?
 

Marlins97+03WC

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B.J. Upton, Tampa Bay Devil Rays: A real organization (and the new Tampa regime might qualify by the time the season is out) would probably have some idea what to do with The Talented Mr. Upton. Here's what we know: One, he is an astounding athlete. Two, he has a Belle-quick bat. And three, when a ball bounces his way in the infield, it is just as likely to connect with his shin, temple or Adam's apple as with his glove. Ergo, one would suggest a shift to the outfield ... but three years after the prospect groupies started that speculation, Upton remains a defensive nomad on a team with 26 DH candidates. At some point, you figure that either he or another of the Tampa outfielders (Rocco Baldelli?) has to wind up in Marlin teal as the key cog in a deal for young pitching.

quote from cbs
 
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Upton is not coming. I don't even agree that he is worth Nolasco (to us, as a CF) at this point, and if Tampa didn't take that deal, where Nolasco would be worth much more to them than Upton is on the bench, they aren't going to take anything fair.
 

Fish4Life

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Atleast we are searching for someone.


:lol :lol :lol Very true Holly
 

Fishfan79

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Upton is not coming. I don't even agree that he is worth Nolasco (to us, as a CF) at this point, and if Tampa didn't take that deal, where Nolasco would be worth much more to them than Upton is on the bench, they aren't going to take anything fair.
I disagree completely with that. I think Upton is worth far more then Nolasco. If he qualified as a prospect he would be a top 25 prospect right now about where Hermida would be. Is Hermida worth more then Nolasco? I surely hope you think so. Ricky did good and bad at times but he is projected as a 3-4-5 type guy. He is not ever going to be an elite ace type SP. that is what they really want to get, they have alotof 3-4-5 type of pitchers in their minor leagues and majors. But they are missing elite young guys.

I am not advocating giving up Olsen, Sanchez or Willis for him though.
 
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I disagree completely with that. I think Upton is worth far more then Nolasco. If he qualified as a prospect he would be a top 25 prospect right now about where Hermida would be. Is Hermida worth more then Nolasco? I surely hope you think so. Ricky did good and bad at times but he is projected as a 3-4-5 type guy. He is not ever going to be an elite ace type SP. that is what they really want to get, they have alotof 3-4-5 type of pitchers in their minor leagues and majors. But they are missing elite young guys.

I am not advocating giving up Olsen, Sanchez or Willis for him though.
Upton has barely set foot on the outfield, even in the minors, let alone at the ML level. The guy might be an amazing hitter (although he hasn't shown it yet in the majors) but to trade away a SP who won over 10 games as a rookie to put this kid in CF full time when he can't even win a starting job in Tampa makes no sense. If he was already in our system or came cheap, I'd have no problem with shoving him in CF, but to give up a good SP who is also has the ability to be an effective RP for him at this point makes no sense.
Nolasco on the other hand, as a rookie, won more games than anyone did in Tampa, or has in a few years (I think) for that matter. And while # of wins in and of itself may not be a great measure of a pitcher, bear in mind he never got wins by just getting lucky w/ run support, as he never gave up more than 3 runs while recording a win. But anyways, the point is that he is better than decent, and while certainly not an ace, you don't have to be an ace to be better than most of what pitches for Tampa. Of 12 pitchers who started games for them last season, one has winning record(and the most wins with 10). He is also the "workhorse" of the rotation, working 4 whole innings more than Nolasco to get up to a whopping 144.2 IP. You know I'm talking about Kazmir, and you know that aside from him, Tampa's rotation is a joke. I think he could easily end up being #2 or #3, even if just cause it's Tampa. But even if you think he'd just be #4 or #5 there, that's still worth more than Upton keeping the bench warm. If they were actually planning on starting Upton somewhere it would make sense.
BTW, no point in comparing Upton to Hermida, really. But if you really want to split hairs about who is "worth more", then riddle me this - who contributed more to the team's successes this past season? Hermida or Nolasco?
 

Iowa

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Nolasco looked as good as anyone on our staff during a few stretches in the season.

No matter what happens, i cant WAIT to see what this rotation does next year. Really excited for the upcoming season.
 

Shamrock

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any argument you think you're making...it's crazy to think Upton for Nolasco is some sort of unfair trade for us. absolutely Insane.
 

Fishfan79

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I disagree completely with that. I think Upton is worth far more then Nolasco. If he qualified as a prospect he would be a top 25 prospect right now about where Hermida would be. Is Hermida worth more then Nolasco? I surely hope you think so. Ricky did good and bad at times but he is projected as a 3-4-5 type guy. He is not ever going to be an elite ace type SP. that is what they really want to get, they have alotof 3-4-5 type of pitchers in their minor leagues and majors. But they are missing elite young guys.

I am not advocating giving up Olsen, Sanchez or Willis for him though.
Upton has barely set foot on the outfield, even in the minors, let alone at the ML level. The guy might be an amazing hitter (although he hasn't shown it yet in the majors) but to trade away a SP who won over 10 games as a rookie to put this kid in CF full time when he can't even win a starting job in Tampa makes no sense. If he was already in our system or came cheap, I'd have no problem with shoving him in CF, but to give up a good SP who is also has the ability to be an effective RP for him at this point makes no sense.
Nolasco on the other hand, as a rookie, won more games than anyone did in Tampa, or has in a few years (I think) for that matter. And while # of wins in and of itself may not be a great measure of a pitcher, bear in mind he never got wins by just getting lucky w/ run support, as he never gave up more than 3 runs while recording a win. But anyways, the point is that he is better than decent, and while certainly not an ace, you don't have to be an ace to be better than most of what pitches for Tampa. Of 12 pitchers who started games for them last season, one has winning record(and the most wins with 10). He is also the "workhorse" of the rotation, working 4 whole innings more than Nolasco to get up to a whopping 144.2 IP. You know I'm talking about Kazmir, and you know that aside from him, Tampa's rotation is a joke. I think he could easily end up being #2 or #3, even if just cause it's Tampa. But even if you think he'd just be #4 or #5 there, that's still worth more than Upton keeping the bench warm. If they were actually planning on starting Upton somewhere it would make sense.
BTW, no point in comparing Upton to Hermida, really. But if you really want to split hairs about who is "worth more", then riddle me this - who contributed more to the team's successes this past season? Hermida or Nolasco?
your entire arguement is based off of wins? How about his whip? How aboiut hiw BB/K % or his HR/K%, his era?

I guess since Randy Johnson last year won more wins then anyone on the marlins he was better then any of our pitchers? Or Steve Traschel whom won 15 games must be better then sanchez or olsen or willis for that matter.


as for upton he is a high onbase percentage player that has great speed, gap power, arm and the potential for homerun power. You wish to see what he is compared to, look to at Hanley Ramirez. Just lookat his 2003 line in the minor leagues:

.297 BA, 30 Doubles, 8 HR, 62 RBI, 40 stolen bases in AA as a 18 year old.
.303 BA, 7 Hr in 31 games in AAA as a 19 year old (youngest SS to go there since Arod) 04
274 BA, .362 OBP, .437 SLG, 18 HR, 36 Doubles, 44 SB, 98 Runs, 74 RBI (as a 20 year old in AAA) 05


http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecota/uptonbj01.php


You need to throw out last year from the injuries and the like, just like you do it for hermida. But, this player is an ELITE talent in major league baseball. There is a reason he was a number 2 overall pick and he far easily worth it.

You are welcome to your opinion, I just think you are very very much under valuing BJ Upton. According to BA if he was still eligable to be a prospect he would be a top 20 prospect still. HE is only 21 years old.
 

Eddie Altamonte

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Upton is not coming. I don't even agree that he is worth Nolasco (to us, as a CF) at this point, and if Tampa didn't take that deal, where Nolasco would be worth much more to them than Upton is on the bench, they aren't going to take anything fair.
I disagree completely with that. I think Upton is worth far more then Nolasco. If he qualified as a prospect he would be a top 25 prospect right now about where Hermida would be. Is Hermida worth more then Nolasco? I surely hope you think so. Ricky did good and bad at times but he is projected as a 3-4-5 type guy. He is not ever going to be an elite ace type SP. that is what they really want to get, they have alotof 3-4-5 type of pitchers in their minor leagues and majors. But they are missing elite young guys.

I am not advocating giving up Olsen, Sanchez or Willis for him though.
Your argument is flawed in the aspect that Upton has become a project that the D-Rays have no need to undertake because of the superior talent they have in the Outfield already. true he has superior skills but so have many others that just haven't cut it. The Marlins have the patience that would be required for him to suceed in the majors. THEY HAVE NO CHOICE! They could start the season with both Reed and Upton on the roster He could learn the job without major pressure.

You don't trade Baldelli or Crawford to develop a project. Upton is not going back to the minors because it does nothing for him and actually diminishes his trade value even more. Why hold a talent of this kind hostage? That's the D-Ray FO for you!

any argument you think you're making...it's crazy to think Upton for Nolasco is some sort of unfair trade for us. absolutely Insane.
Agreed!
 

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