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Miami Herald: Marlins Free Agency Notes

SonOfJack

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You would never know how a prospect would perform in the majors, and it would never hurt to have too many good players because you always could trade some of them when needed.
Correct. Signing a real FA like Nick or at least actually trying to would send a good message to the fans and the players. Making this fake attempt and then signing some guy for a one year deal like walker or granderson isn’t cutting it. They won’t compete in 2020 either way, but it doesn’t mean they have to be cheap in how they handle this off-season.
 

SilverBullet

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I don't consider this a real attempt by them to sign him. There is no reason to think he's going to have such a bad market that he has to settle for a short deal with the Marlins. This is the Marlins acting like they are going after one of the better free agents out there.
Bro stop kissing up to Jeter already
 

SilverBullet

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It doesn't sound like it'll be Castellanos... and it doesn't have to be him... but there needs to be significant additions to this offense at some point in this offseason.
 

MarlinsLou

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It doesn't sound like it'll be Castellanos... and it doesn't have to be him... but there needs to be significant additions to this offense at some point in this offseason.
It's easy. They need three dudes:

C Alfaro, Wallach
1B Cooper, "Lefty Veteran Backup who can also play LF/RF" (eventually Lewin for sure)
2B Isan, "Backup 2B/3B type, preferably another lefty" (eventually Jazz replaces if he progresses fast in 2020)
SS Rojas, Berti
3B Anderson
LF "Longterm right handed bat to shift around Lewin/Bleday/Sanchez at 1B/corners. His name is Castellanos"
CF Sierra, Brinson - and Berti and Ramirez will chip in here (eventually Monte for sure)
RF Ramirez (eventually Sanchez for sure)

A lot of lineup options with shifting Cooper, Berti, and Anderson into the OF, and Berti and Rojas all over the IF. This would work itself out.
 

SilverBullet

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It's easy. They need three dudes:

C Alfaro, Wallach
1B Cooper, "Lefty Veteran Backup who can also play LF/RF" (eventually Lewin for sure)
2B Isan, "Backup 2B/3B type, preferably another lefty" (eventually Jazz replaces if he progresses fast in 2020)
SS Rojas, Berti
3B Anderson
LF "Longterm right handed bat to shift around Lewin/Bleday/Sanchez at 1B/corners. His name is Castellanos"
CF Sierra, Brinson - and Berti and Ramirez will chip in here (eventually Monte for sure)
RF Ramirez (eventually Sanchez for sure)

A lot of lineup options with shifting Cooper, Berti, and Anderson into the OF, and Berti and Rojas all over the IF. This would work itself out.
The only problem is nobody is sure the Marlins are thinking as wisely as you are.

There are some signs that they might be... but there also red flags that say maybe not.
 

MarlinsLou

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The only problem is nobody is sure the Marlins are thinking as wisely as you are.

There are some signs that they might be... but there also red flags that say maybe not.
I mean, on a theoretical level, signing C. Dickerson, claiming Matt Duffy on waivers, and re-signing Neil Walker get you through 2020 which would be "fine" and solid moves, but it just doesn't inspire confidence in a longterm BUILD when you can create assets for 2022 by paying them more money in 2020.

What's the plan here, just scorch earth for 5 years and then maybe people will appreciate your ownership approach? You bought a team. We don't expect you to make the playoffs. But can we at least get a longterm starter on a moderate free agency deal? Make some moves besides slashing payroll and getting prospects?

Look at the White Sox right now - they are overpaying guys to contend right now. Wouldn't it inspire confidence to overpay when you expect to suck and not turn the corner, thus creating an asset later?

And they don't even need to spend money - trade for Clint Frazier and Miguel Andujar, and send them back Ca. Smith, Stanek, someone like Misner (non-40 man), and Fitterer (non-40 man), and you've just taken two big swings at a longterm bat, and now have more money for pitching because you didn't sign Castellanos/Ozuna, and don't have to pay Caleb in arbitration sooner than these other guys.
 

MarlinsLou

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My dream scenario BTW is bringing both the South Florida kids home:

Rizzo - they need $$$ for younger Bryant, Baez, and Schwarber deals. Rizzo is 3+ years older
for
Bleday, L. Diaz, Soriano/Fitterer (some upside arm)

Re-sign Rizzo to a 3 year extension, which puts him around 5/$100+ for a his age 30-34 seasons
Sign Castellanos outright for 4 years, $60-68 million, in free agency

In 2022 yell come at me bro:

R Anderson
L Jazz
R Rizzo
L J. Sanchez
R Castellanos
L Isan
R Monte
R Alfaro

SP Sixto, Sandy, Pablo, Garrett, Neidert
RP Guzman, Cabrera, Hernandez, Holloway/Brigham/Whoever
LP Rogers, Ca.Smith, Garcia/Vesia

If you buyout Anderson, and frontload just Castellanos (as Rizzo is cheaper next 2 years), I bet that team costs around $70 million - meaning you can add an epic luxury free agent upgrade, and then trade from your horde of still valuable minor leaguers (early 2020 picks, Scott, Misner, Devers, etc.) and get a second massive upgrade. Basically, what the Brewers did with Yelich.

This is the kind of shit I want to see which is not that far fetched. Find clubs that need to save money and secure longterm talent with shitty farms.

They scorched earth. They did a fantastic job with Gallen, Richards, and Anderson.

Don't twiddle your thumbs another year. Prep for 2022. Believe in your prospect evaluation and get the guys now to BUILD that culture
 

hovertical

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this really does sound like the SOM(same old marlins) routine. The thing is, most of their "top prospects" are simply not ready yet and they really need to improve that on field product because that shit was painful to watch. The whole "we don't want to block prospects" is such BS. Unless you have some uber blue chip prospect who is a near-lock to start and succeed next year there's never such a thing as having too much talent. The bulk of prospects are never much more than replacement level guys, if that.

Really disappointing outlook for the offseason when there were some pieces that really could have been solid stepping stones to a possible 75-80 win season with those additions and give the fans that have stuck through yet another rebuild something to actually watch and enjoy after two shitty seasons.

Of course, if they can some how manage to get Hollytime out of the booth for good all would be forgiven.
 

rmc523

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I'm with you @hovertical . They need to show progress, and I don't know if any of the prospects are sure-fire hits (guys like Harper or Bryant that are universally regarded as "that guy") to the point where they should be worrying about blocking any of them.

I'd still love Rich and Tommy back, but I know that won't happen at this point.
 
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taiwanmarlin

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The only problem is nobody is sure the Marlins are thinking as wisely as you are.

There are some signs that they might be... but there also red flags that say maybe not.
I believe as the high paid professional baseball people as Hill and Denbo, they would know everything @MarlinsLou knows, but when you were in a reality MLB organization things would only become much more complicated and difficult.
 

taiwanmarlin

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What I afraid most was they decided to go the "money ball" route, they have every reason to do it until this team has a NORMAL attendance number. since this ownership take over this team, what they investing most were for the scouting, drafting and player development, if they really reluctant to spend really money in this off-season then maybe it's really what they want to do …
 

taiwanmarlin

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A fan told Jeter : You sign the players, then I buy the tickets.
Jeter told a fan : You buy the tickets, then I sign the players.
so…
 

MarlinsLou

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I believe as the high paid professional baseball people as Hill and Denbo, they would know everything @MarlinsLou knows, but when you were in a reality MLB organization things would only become much more complicated and difficult.
They get it. The player acquisition has been fantastic of late (except Yelich, that was a terrible deal on paper and even worse in practice), Denbo built the Yankees farm which is great, and say what we will of Hill, he was part of the team that got Yelich, Stanton, Ozuna, Fernandez, and Realmuto (.... and Paddack, L. Castillo, and others they just gave away). Absent Loria meddling, the pathetic state of fan support, and Fernandez's unfortunate far too early death, they had a squad on paper that would have been a major contender.

It's been two years of slashing and burning. It's time to "BUILD" and I maintain you don't do that with a few fleeting Avisail Garcia 1 year signings. Make a big longterm move to show us there is a plan, versus lets just keep drafting guys.
 

MarlinsLou

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What I afraid most was they decided to go the "money ball" route, they have every reason to do it until this team has a NORMAL attendance number. since this ownership take over this team, what they investing most were for the scouting, drafting and player development, if they really reluctant to spend really money in this off-season then maybe it's really what they want to do …
Moneyball is just acquiring guys undervalued - kind of how they are targeting spin rate players (yamamoto) as they may have better chances of developing longterm.

They have a lot of debt to pay. Not spending right now on deals - front loaded for 2 years to have cheaper teams when you are "good" - says to me they are just going to tank for 2 more years (as free agency next year sucks), and the plan is to pay off debt and just accumulate so much draft capital let's hope 2022 is good.

I think they owe the fans something more than just Corey Dickerson, 4 bench guys, and the lowest payroll in baseball by $20 million dollars.
 

SilverBullet

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I think they owe the fans something more than just Corey Dickerson, 4 bench guys, and the lowest payroll in baseball by $20 million dollars.
Agreed but we're getting mixed signals on this. Some are implying that they're ready to add significantly to the MLB club and some are hinting that it's the same old Marlins who are hesitant to commit seriously to the MLB club.
 

taiwanmarlin

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Agreed but we're getting mixed signals on this. Some are implying that they're ready to add significantly to the MLB club and some are hinting that it's the same old Marlins who are hesitant to commit seriously to the MLB club.
Maybe they got the pressure to spend the significant money from the players association, let's just wait and see.
 

DTrain

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I can stomach one more year (2020) of the Marlins not spending (being cheap).

I’ve said it 10 times already, though, if they don’t spend to fill holes in 2021 I am done.

The only way this core doesn’t win 90 games in 2021 is because the ownership group fails to spend money.
 

taiwanmarlin

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I can stomach one more year (2020) of the Marlins not spending (being cheap).

I’ve said it 10 times already, though, if they don’t spend to fill holes in 2021 I am done.

The only way this core doesn’t win 90 games in 2021 is because the ownership group fails to spend money.
But the 2020~21 FA class was suck, so if you missing the FA class of this off-season then you would lose in the FA business for two straight years.
 

MarlinsLou

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I can stomach one more year (2020) of the Marlins not spending (being cheap).

I’ve said it 10 times already, though, if they don’t spend to fill holes in 2021 I am done.

The only way this core doesn’t win 90 games in 2021 is because the ownership group fails to spend money.
2021 free agency is Mookie, Realmuto, and a lot of SP (Bauer, Ray, Paxton headline). Everyone else is older and you don't want on a long term deal (Springer, LeMahieu, D. Peralta), or not even "Castellanos/Ozuna" level absent breakouts. I wouldn't want them to spend on this unless they can somehow convince Mookie to come down. Maybe Ray if he is healthy as he's still really young and I really like his stuff if he keeps it together.

2022 free agency is epic - Freeman, Rizzo, Baez, Arenado, Lindor, Correa, Seager, Story, Conforto, Syndergaard, every old ace in baseball (Kershaw, Verlander, Kluber, Max, Greinke). I expect half of those guys to sign extensions beforehand.

It's why Castellanos/Ozuna is perfect for them. It shows a medium level of commitment now, and neither would prevent them from doing anything in 2022 if you, broken record, frontload them and frontload an Anderson extension. Perfect compliment for all the lefties coming and avoids overspending in 21 when you don't want to spend.
 

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