What's new

Okay, I'm impressed...

Marlins2003

Muckdog
Joined
Jan 20, 2003
Messages
12,442
Reaction score
0
I admit it. I haven't seen Dontrelle as anything more than an arm for a few starts but after today, I sure am hopeful he's the real deal. The team really is rooting for the kid, you can see it in the way they play behind him, and McKeon is clearly pleased with his progress. He had great movement today and really stayed within himself.

Great job Dontrelle! I'm starting to believe you really DO belong in the bigs.
 

Jrod1

Muckdog
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Messages
1,169
Reaction score
0
man why did mckeon take him out. its good just keep his arm healthy ( jeff torborg) he was over 100 itches and he pitched 8 innings of shutout ball. he is our future in pitching so lets not overwork him.

good move jack
 

AJBurnett34

Muckdog
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
4,645
Reaction score
0
Dontrelle pitched well, he had good stuff and i was impresed by those 9 strike outs but Jack should of let him pitch one more inning. He would of throw like 13 pitches more. Now Almanza was in and allowing runs like he did last year.....
 

Jrod1

Muckdog
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Messages
1,169
Reaction score
0
Dontrelle pitched well, he had good stuff and i was impresed by those 9 strike outs but Jack should of let him pitch one more inning. He would of throw like 13 pitches more. Now Almanza was in and allowing runs like he did last year.....
but those last 13 pitches over a duration of 5 or 6 starts can cause an injury. would you rather dontrelle go the extra inning or two every game and be prone to injury.

barry zito has thrown less than 6 shutouts in the past 3 years. but tell me how many time has he gone 7 or 8 innings allowing 1 run or less. there was no need to put dontrelle out there, although i wanted to ee him pitch it just as much as you did, there was really no need.

just be thankful we got the sweep, and willis is healthy.
 

Ramp

Muckdog
Joined
Aug 21, 2002
Messages
38,437
Reaction score
0
Willis was pitching easy...

he should have stayed out

oh well, no harm, no foul....
 

Das Texan

Loria can kiss my ass
Moderator
VIP
Joined
Aug 18, 2002
Messages
21,367
Reaction score
89
dont get me started on pitch counts.




ANY starting pitcher should be able to throw 120 pitches per start.




but the way baseball is currently going, its a joke what has become 'accecptable' for a starter.
 

Jrod1

Muckdog
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Messages
1,169
Reaction score
0
dont get me started on pitch counts.




ANY starting pitcher should be able to throw 120 pitches per start.




but the way baseball is currently going, its a joke what has become 'accecptable' for a starter.
yea but when dontrelle goes 120 pitches and tears a rotator cuff who are you gonna blame?

you're gonna blame managment. and who did you guys blame for a.j. burnett?

you blamed management
 

Das Texan

Loria can kiss my ass
Moderator
VIP
Joined
Aug 18, 2002
Messages
21,367
Reaction score
89
if pitchers are better conditioned today....



why could pitchers 20 years ago throw 120 pitches routinely....



and today 100 is considered a good start.



shouldnt they be able to throw more not less?



question.
 

Ramp

Muckdog
Joined
Aug 21, 2002
Messages
38,437
Reaction score
0
yes but the game is different now.

back then, the starter would go 6 or 7 and then he would become his own setup guy and have to find a way to get through 8....

today, if you go 6, there is the bullpen waiting for you...


also, pitchers make alot of money and people want to 'baby' their investments...
 

Das Texan

Loria can kiss my ass
Moderator
VIP
Joined
Aug 18, 2002
Messages
21,367
Reaction score
89
i hate this reliance on bullpens....



and many middle relievers are where the most damage is done.




I also am not fond of the closers who pitch one inning and get a save......the guys like Goose Gossage, Bruce Sutter, etc earned their saves.



So many of the closers today have it so easy.



But the game has changed....some of it good, some of it bad. Pitching and mentality toward pitching sucks. Plain and simple.
 

Ramp

Muckdog
Joined
Aug 21, 2002
Messages
38,437
Reaction score
0
there is a school of thought that thinks the last 3 outs are the hardest to gets....

it seems that way sometime, but the 1 inning, 3 run lead save is blech, unless men are on base, etc....

same as the 6IP 3ER Quality Start....... it should be 7ip
 

Das Texan

Loria can kiss my ass
Moderator
VIP
Joined
Aug 18, 2002
Messages
21,367
Reaction score
89
i agree.....


i dont think you should get credit for a save unless the tying run is on base, at bat or on deck.
 

Ramp

Muckdog
Joined
Aug 21, 2002
Messages
38,437
Reaction score
0
Baseball Tonight did a nice piece on DW called "Now Playing"

the crew gave him alot of props, saying he is a good one, and "how was a he a 8th round pick?"...

this may be steal for the Marlins.

and, this kid can swing the bat.

:)
 

DurableTear

Muckdog
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Messages
6,213
Reaction score
0
Baseball Tonight did a nice piece on DW called "Now Playing"

the crew gave him alot of props, saying he is a good one, and how was a he a 8th round pick...

this may be steal for the Marlins.

and, this kid can swing the bat.

:)
a complete player? :mischief2
 

Expos Ranchod

Muckdog
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Messages
656
Reaction score
0
Baseball Tonight did a nice piece on DW called "Now Playing"

the crew gave him alot of props, saying he is a good one, and how was a he a 8th round pick...

this may be steal for the Marlins.

and, this kid can swing the bat.

:)
a complete player? :mischief2 better hitter than DLee? :lol
 

Wild Card

Muckdog
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
19,020
Reaction score
0
His first three starts, you didn't see half the control he had in the minors. He regained his control, wasn't intiminated, and did amazing.

P.S. They are basing his ability of hitting on the double he got in Montreal. He is a decent hitting pitcher, but maybe the front office will trade him. He is a horrible base runner. LOL. :lol
 

jonnylons

Muckdog
Joined
May 10, 2003
Messages
3,168
Reaction score
0
Das Texan, I am totally with you on this pitch count issue. I have debated quite extensively with others on the MLB site that pitch counts are a safe-measure, but that they do NOT prevent injury in of themselves. In fact, THERE IS NO ONE METHOD GUARANTEED TO PREVENT PITCHER INJURY.

I too have questions about today's pitchers and I think comparisons to yester-years pitchers is appropriate. I think that physically guys are no different now than they were then, even in better shape today than they were then. But I question the use of weights and weight-lifting for pitchers - some of that can damage pitchers. Also, how do they pitch between starts? Also, the mound has changed from what is was about 30-40 years ago (if I remember correctly) and pitchers in general do not throw a lot of strikes. Guys are afraid to put the ball over the plate and it seems that Umpires may be forced to fudge the strike zone just to make the game continue. Willis threw only 64 strikes out of 102 pitches. Penny threw 65 out of 101. That is less than 65% in both cases. I think we should expect more but what do I know.

Anyway, I think injury is the product of many factors and pitch counts may have little to do with it. I think delivery style, exercise, practice all put stress on the arm that may be being overlooked. Anyway, sorry for the long post...just had to get that out there.
 

Marlins2003

Muckdog
Joined
Jan 20, 2003
Messages
12,442
Reaction score
0
I continue to believe, and I've said the same thing here before, that the big difference today (in pitchers) is the age at which they make it to the bigs. Forty years ago a guy toiled in the minors for five or six years, no matter how good he was. There were less teams and more player stability, and a guy didn't expect to get his crack at MLB until he was in his mid-late twenties, even early thirties.

When I was a kid there was nothing abnormal about a 29 year old guy making it to the show ala Tommy Phelps. You have to give the credit, he's learned to pitch within himself, he's mature, he knows what he can and cannot do. What he lacks in skills he makes up for with the experiences he had learning his craft in the minors. I don't know if he has the stuff to stay in the bigs and have a four or five year career, but in some ways he has a better chance to making it than some phenom (I'm not talking specifically about Willis) with a 100 mph fastball and one other pitch.

I started this thread because I wanted to acknowledge that I had been rash in judging Dontrelle. I still worry about his arm and whether it's ready to do what needs to be done. I've watched so many kids over the last fifty years come up and burn out or blow out their arms. The most fabled was a Texas farmboy named David Clyde, who had stuff like you couldn't believe and a consistent 100 mph heater, and he blew it out quicker than you can say "Brad Arnsberg". A career destroyed by not seasoning the kid's mind and body a year or two longer.

So now we watch pitch counts. It's not the same.
 

Top Bottom