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yankeefan21

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First - some 411 on Pudge from a lifelong AL fan:

Pudge is a fantastic O player, as all of you know. He also has a cannon attached to his neck and I pity the fool who tries to steal on him - hell he'll even pick you off at 1st if your lead is too big and you are lollygagging. HOWEVER - the knock on Pudge has ALWAYS been that he is clueless when it comes to handling his pitchers. He is also pretty poor when it comes to calling a game. Some attributed this aspect to poor pitching in Texas, but I think the Marlins will expose this weakness in Pudge's game for what it is.

Now - fair weather fans.

Let's face it, Florida and Atlanta are geared [no pun intended] for NASCAR far more than baseball or football. Shoot, who can blame you. If *I* lived in Florida, I'd be spending my time in South Beach checking out the hotties rather than wasting my time sweating my cajonies off with a bunch of drunks at a baseball stadium! :cool

Case in point, Atlanta couldn't draw a straw until they started winning titles. Check it out:

Braves Attendance:
1990 - 980,129 - record: 65-97 - 12th out of 12 teams in attendance
1992 - 3,077,400 - record: 98-64 Division Champs - 1st out of 12 teams in attendance

Where did 2,097,271 fans come from in the span of 2 years? That's an increase in attendance of 314%!! You don't see that kind of nonsense in "baseball towns," like Boston, Chicago, and NY. When the snow and ice are finally gone, we'll use ANY excuse to get a gang together, cook up some flesh, and imbibe alcohol in a ritualistic manor befitting a celebratory festival honoring the gods of summer.

Case in point, the Yanks consistently draw 1.75 million to 3 million fans each year. These numbers are despite having another MLB team, a short train ride away, competing for their fan base.

Yanks attendance:
1990 - 2,006,436 - record: 67-95 - 4th consecutive non-competitive season
1996 - 2,250,877 - record: 92-70 - WS Champs

Personally? I'd rather take my chances wearing a Red Sox jersey amongst the "Bleacher Creatures" in the Bronx on a dare than risk my life swimming in the hiv needle infused waters of the Jersey shore...

So, as you can see, it's really a simple matter of mathematics and limited options: Cold Weather fans are better than Warm Weather fans b/c Warm Weather fans will ALWAYS be Fair Weather fans... :mischief2
 

Ramp

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how come yesterday when a pitcher throws a good game with Pudge catching, no one says "he called a good game"?.....

Im not saying he is a great game caller but dont just pick on him when we lose or when a pitcher gets rocked
 

orisha

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by the way, this town does support sports. but let's realize something. we've had only 1 winning season in 10 years, you can't expect good attendance like that. the teams that bring people to the staium, even when losing, are teams that have been around a long time and have a long tradition and a huge fan base. that is not the case with the marlins. i also feel that one problem with the team is marketing, they are terrible at it. they've alwasy been. they try to catter to the broward fans, who are usually long time dolphin fans and are mostly into football, then complain about how this is a football and not a baseball town, but they don't look down south to miami dade where the people are more into baseball than football. the hispanic community in dade, mostly cubans, dominicans and nicaraguans, comes from countries with a rich baseball tradition and they like to follow the sport. they just ask for one thing, quality product. i think if the team moved closer to that fan base it would work out. also, the attendance for this team in its first few years up until 1997 was never bad, it wasn't a great attendance, but it wasn't terrible as it is now. any, that's my opinion.
 

Ramp

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by the way, this town does support sports.
winning sports teams..... not just teams
 

orisha

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i don't think is about winning ramp. you just have to build a tradition. i don't think there's one town in the world that supports losing sports teams. i'm sure if 8 out of 10 seasons are hopefull and at least decent you'll have support, but when you dismantled a winning team and have only 1 winning season in 10 years and not much hope any time, people won't support you.
 

Ramp

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come on, this town is all "fairweather" fans.....

the Heat, Panthers, Fish all have nice crowds when they win..... when they dont..... its blech
 

yankeefan21

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come on, this town is all "fairweather" fans.....

the Heat, Panthers, Fish all have nice crowds when they win..... when they dont..... its blech
Amen.

You want to see some fans that support a tradition of crappy products?

Go watch a game at Wrigley.

:cool
 

Hotcorner

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i don't think is about winning ramp. you just have to build a tradition. i don't think there's one town in the world that supports losing sports teams. i'm sure if 8 out of 10 seasons are hopefull and at least decent you'll have support, but when you dismantled a winning team and have only 1 winning season in 10 years and not much hope any time, people won't support you.
I agree very much with this statement. Although some of it is definately based on winning, a lot of teams who draw well even in mediocre seasons have been around for a very long time. It takes generations sometimes to build a great fan base.* Families go to games and bring their kids, and then those kids become fans, etc, etc... Over time it becomes part of the community, the way the Dolphins and Miami Hurricanes have become.

*The alternative is to win quickly and win a lot. (See Arizona Diamondbacks)

The other theory about teams in the south having fair-weather fans is an interesting one too, but hard to back up. Arizona's hard to compare since they're world series contenders every year lately, and Devil Ray fans really haven't had any reason to show up much anyway. The Braves are the only good example. The San Diego Padres for instance are not going to compete but they generally draw pretty good crowds.
 

Das Texan

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here is a solution:



put a damn winner on the field year in and year out.....



yankeefan nails it...


you can count on one hand the number of true 'baseball towns'


he has 3 of them and is leaving out one.


St. Louis


This is interesting though....


They are not northern...

Nor or they southern....


Does Yankeefan's thesis still hold true????


To an extent yes....there still is not a southern city that will support their team year in and year out....


San Diego is an interesting example...but i need to see their attendance figures....



However one thing has been proven:


Winning brings in fans.


Lets look at the root of the problem instead of trying to create excuses.


Miami is not a small market. The next time someone uses that excuse either on these forums or in the media...I am going to call horseshit.


All knows that Miami is a fair weather sports town...as are many towns...


You can count on I would say two hands the number of towns that always support their respective teams.


Thats why I like Portland if the demand is there.
 

Das Texan

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First - some 411 on Pudge from a lifelong AL fan:

Pudge is a fantastic O player, as all of you know. He also has a cannon attached to his neck and I pity the fool who tries to steal on him - hell he'll even pick you off at 1st if your lead is too big and you are lollygagging. HOWEVER - the knock on Pudge has ALWAYS been that he is clueless when it comes to handling his pitchers. He is also pretty poor when it comes to calling a game. Some attributed this aspect to poor pitching in Texas, but I think the Marlins will expose this weakness in Pudge's game for what it is.
oh yeah....



didnt i give the same arguement here????



all the homers here want to dismiss pudge's inadequacies as no big deal....



lets be objective people....



call things how they are.



Thats all I ask. Objectivity.
 

yankeefan21

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he has 3 of them and is leaving out one.

St. Louis

This is interesting though....

They are not northern...

Nor or they southern....

Does Yankeefan's thesis still hold true????
Ah yes, the infamous "exception to the rule" clause... :mischief

Some thoughts on the Cards...

1. After the Yankees, who has the most Pennants?
2. After the Yankees, who has the most World Championships?
3. Who is the oldest team in baseball?

Cards, Cards, Cards... [I know some of you are thinking Cubs but they weren't the "Cubs" until 1903... ;) ]
 

DurableTear

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In my opinion.. Chicago and New York are the best "baseball towns"..

Miami and Atlanta are filled with bandwagon fans and it's pathetic..

I don't included Tampa cause the D-Rays are a joke...
 

yankeefan21

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In my opinion.. Chicago and New York are the best "baseball towns"..
NL and AL respectively I would presume... :mischief2
 

yankeefan21

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:eek:

I just lied to you! The Cards are the *2nd* oldest team in baseball...

The REDS have been around since 1890!
 

Das Texan

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you are lucky yankeefan....


i was gonna call you out on that one....


but you corrected yourself.



its funny that many forget about the cardinals as being the second most successful franchise in baseball history...


and i swear if it wasnt for those dominant yankee teams of the 20s and 30s...the cards would have a few more titles.
 

DurableTear

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In my opinion.. Chicago and New York are the best "baseball towns"..
NL and AL respectively I would presume... :mischief2 you get what I mean... :mischief
 

Das Texan

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funny thing....



new york would support at least one more team...


easily.
 

yankeefan21

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new york would support at least one more team...
Tell that to Barry Bonds and Shawn Green... :hat
 

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