Nathan Bedford Forrest

[g8trz2003]

We discussed him today in Military History (when discussing the Reconstruction period). My professor (Lt. Colonel Price) is amazingly ignorant when it comes to such things as Reconstruction. Anyway, he mentioned Forrest as the founder of the KKK (which he was not the founder of), and implied that he was a flamingly racist bigot.

 

I would just like to hear what yall think of Forrest before I post what I think about this man. I will tell yall this now: I think he should be one of the most respected men out of the South. True badass, yet true gentleman.

[SorianoFanHFW]

anyone who helped support the KKK is an a**hole, not a gentleman.

 

Let me guess furman, he was part of a non-militant wing that supported black schools?

 

horse s***.

[g8trz2003]

do you know what the early KKK was about?

 

It was a citizen militia used to fight the Yankee scalawags and carpetbaggers. Martial law was taking place in the South, and many atrocities took place (many of which would now be considered war crimes), and the Klan (as it was called) was made of men fighting for the rights of Southerners.

 

Here's an interesting little story I found about one of Forest's first actions when he became leader of this citizen militia. He went to a black man's house who was accused of beating his wife. The black man, holding an axe, told Forrest that he 'owned' his wife and could "beat her anytime he wanted to." Wherein Bedford took the axe from the man, taught him some southern manners on how to treat a lady (black or white), then told him that he had better never see a mark on the woman again.

 

He also disbanded the Klan in 1869. Why? Because the Union appointed Governor Brownlow and the rest of his carpetbaggers were not in office anymore. He also told the President of the United States that to quit stealing land and goods from Southern US citizens, abusing them, and molesting free blacks. What were northern states doing at this time? Creating laws to keep blacks out.

 

In fact, the Independent Order of Pole Bearers Association (a predecessor of the NAACP) asked Forrest to speak at their convention (he was the first white man to speak at their convention). This is what he said:

 

"I came here with the jeers of some white people, who think that I am doing wrong. I believe I can exert some influence, and do much to assist the people in strengthening fraternal relations, and shall do all in my power to elevate every man - to depress none. (Applause.) I want to elevate you to take positions in law offices, in stores, on farms, and wherever you are capable of going. I have not said anything about politics today. I don't propose to say anything about politics. You have a right to elect whom you please; vote for the man you think best, and I think, when that is done, you and I are freemen. Do as you consider right and honest in electing men for office. I did not come here to make you a long speech, although invited to do so by you. I am not much of a speaker, and my business prevented me from preparing myself. I came to meet you as friends, and welcome you to the white people. I want you to come nearer to us. When I can serve you I will do so. We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment. Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I'll come to your relief."

 

When Forrest died, about 3000 blacks paid their respects at his funeral.

[g8trz2003]

The racist hate group was formed in (I believe, but not positive...I'll have to look it up) 1916, and took on the name Ku Klux Klan (not the same organization).

[SorianoFanHFW]

So, what about Nathan Bedford Forrest? One historian labeled him, "the clear, unfettered genius of the Civil War." Others see him as a racist monster, responsible for the massacre of blacks at Fort Pillow on April 30, 1864. Never asking his soldiers to go where he wouldn't himself, he had 29 horses shot out from under him. He entered the Confederate forces a private and left it a general. On the other hand, he helped start the organization known as the KKK and served as its head from 1867-1869.

 

Real gentleman.

 

The founders of the Thule Society (predating the nazi party) were gentlemen too. NOT.

[Das Texan]

Only thing I know about Forrest is that he was a general for the Confederates.

 

 

 

As far as the KKK, I forget their original purpose.

 

 

If you watch Birth of a Nation...they are definitely not the kind group of people Furman makes them out to be...however that movie is definitely an interesting movie....as it is definitely anti-black and in many ways quite comical...although not its intent.

[g8trz2003]

The only black mark on his war record was alleged to be the Fort Pillow incident, where he was accused of killing unarmed black soldiers. History completely vindicates him of this unfair charge. Although some incidents did occur at Fort Pillow, they happened before Forrest arrived and he was absolutely furious. The action that triggered those incidents was the cowardly running away of numerous white Union soldiers who left the black Union soldiers to defend the fort. The tenacity and pride of the black soldiers (with their white officers) would not allow them to surrender which made the men of Colonel Chalmer's unit mad, resulting in some depredations.

[SorianoFanHFW]

dude, even though the early clan wasn't exactly the anti-immigrant political group it became in the 20s, it still was a vehicle for a bunch of pissed of southerners to take their anger on people because they lost a war.

 

If that is true about the pillow incident, thanks for bringing that up.

[Shamrock]

Every student in my American South to 1865 class had to do a project on a major event/group/person in southern history. The last guy to present chose the KKK with a focus on Forrest. I thought he was very fair about the presentation and didn't pigeonhole Nathan, even though the presenter is a known liberal thinker. From his presentation I gathered that the initial KKK was founded as a social club for bored Southerners and Robert E. Lee was actually first offered leadership of the group, but denied it and recommended Forrest. Forrest detested the violent acts against blacks for the most part and could probably be considered a liberal Southerner for his time. We can't push our level of morals or social conscious on people who lived over a hundred years ago.

 

With all that said I hate when Southeners talk about "gentlemen" and Southern pride. But thats just me.

[g8trz2003]

i love talking about Southern gentlemen (not to say that only Southerners are gentlemen). It just kinda brings back a warm ante-bellum South feeling. And I am damn proud to be Southern. I don't see anyhting wrong with regional pride. Take it from Petey Pablo (ugh!), "rep yo city (state/region)"

[g8trz2003]

Only thing I know about Forrest is that he was a general for the Confederates.

 

 

 

As far as the KKK, I forget their original purpose.

 

 

If you watch Birth of a Nation...they are definitely not the kind group of people Furman makes them out to be...however that movie is definitely an interesting movie....as it is definitely anti-black and in many ways quite comical...although not its intent.

Was it Woodrow Wilson who absolutely loved that movie?

[Shamrock]

i love talking about Southern gentlemen (not to say that only Southerners are gentlemen). It just kinda brings back a warm ante-bellum South feeling. And I am damn proud to be Southern. I don't see anyhting wrong with regional pride. Take it from Petey Pablo (ugh!), "rep yo city (state/region)"

Theres only something wrong with it if you sacrifice your principles over regional interests. Other than that it doesn't bother me.

[g8trz2003]

what do you mean by that?

[Shamrock]

to support _______ despite the actions/whatever that go against your principles. I could give examples if needed.

[g8trz2003]

i'd like that. Do you mean, something such as

 

I support a racist politician, because he supports the Confederate flag

[Shamrock]

i'd like that. Do you mean, something such as

 

I support a racist politician, because he supports the Confederate flag

Thats a good example.

 

 

Or for something even more broad. I support (country here) even though they do (insert atrocity here) because its my country and I'm a good patriot/nationalist/whatever.

[Das Texan]

Only thing I know about Forrest is that he was a general for the Confederates.

 

 

 

As far as the KKK, I forget their original purpose.

 

 

If you watch Birth of a Nation...they are definitely not the kind group of people Furman makes them out to be...however that movie is definitely an interesting movie....as it is definitely anti-black and in many ways quite comical...although not its intent.

Was it Woodrow Wilson who absolutely loved that movie? probably.

[nc marlin]

Only thing I know about Forrest is that he was a general for the Confederates.

 

 

 

As far as the? ? , I forget their original purpose.

 

 

If you watch Birth of a Nation...they are definitely not the kind group of people Furman makes them out to be...however that movie is definitely an interesting movie....as it is definitely anti-black and in many ways quite comical...although not its intent.

Was it Woodrow Wilson who absolutely loved that movie? probably. Yes it was Wilson who liked it.