Teal Shadow Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 It appear the Marlins want RHP Juan Cruz( I would take Wellemeyer instead), 2B Bobby Hill(he's OK), Double A RHP Angel Guzman(the Cubs top RHP prospect) and Single A LHP Andy Sisco(who's injuried right now but is the Cubs best LHP prospect). "IF" the Cubs offer that package you CAN'T say NO!! sorry Lowell its been fun.....If Beinfest pulls this trade off he's the man. will see......I understand they'll be some that just won't understand the trade but if gets this package believe me NOBODY in baseball would turn it down. http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines Mike Lowell's going somewhere soon. Could be the Cubs. Could be the Dodgers. Could be a mystery team lurking out there in the weeds, like the Braves, Yankees or Red Sox. In a perfect world, the Cubs would go after reinforcements in late July, when the price falls because there are more teams looking to move players than teams able to increase their payroll. But if they want to get Lowell from the Florida Marlins, the Cubs will have to move faster than that. More and more, June 10 is becoming the unofficial start of trading season. That's about when Cleveland moved Bartolo Colon to Montreal for a rich package of prospects last season. There's not much question that Lowell is the best available player. He went into the weekend hitting .300 with 18 homers and 49 runs batted in. He was leading the National League in total bases, with four more than St. Louis' Albert Pujols. Because he plays third base, Lowell perfectly fits the needs of the Cubs as well as the Dodgers, who are trying to find a taker for the disappointing Adrian Beltre. When the Cubs shipped Juan Cruz to Triple-A Iowa last week, it was at least partly in the hopes that he will rebuild his value quickly for a potential trade. The Marlins are expected to scout his starts for the I-Cubs. According to major-league sources, the Cubs are willing to include Cruz and second baseman Bobby Hill?a big name in South Florida because he led Miami to the College World Series title?in a package. But the Marlins are asking about some other young pitchers, including 6-foot-9-inch left-hander Andy Sisco and Angel Guzman, who pitched like a front-of-the-rotation starter this spring. You can understand why the Cubs are proceeding cautiously. They have to look no further than 21-year-old Dontrelle Willis and 24-year-old Kyle Lohse to understand the risks that come with trading young pitchers. Willis shot through Florida's minor-league system after being included in the 2002 deal for Antonio Alfonseca and Matt Clement. Lohse, who was included in a dubious trade for Rick Aguilera in 1999, has blossomed into the best starting pitcher for the first-place Twins. Then there's Jon Garland, who continues to tease the White Sox with his potential. But with Sammy Sosa facing another extended absence and questions arising about Moises Alou's health, now looks like the best time if you're going to pay the high price to add an All-Star-caliber hitter. It's possible the Cubs will give up the players necessary to get Lowell only if he agrees to a contract extension as a condition of the trade. Lowell, 29, earns $3.7 million this season. He could jump beyond $7 million for 2004 through salary arbitration and then can become a free agent. His coming to the Cubs could turn on whether he's willing to sacrifice maximum earning power for security with a team that looks like it's on the verge of some fascinating seasons. There's another way to go too. The Cubs could trade for Florida second baseman Luis Castillo and move Mark Grudzielanek to third base, where he last played in 1995. But that's only half a solution, really. The Dodgers seem unlikely to add Lowell unless they also have found a landing spot for Beltre. If Lowell does wind up with the Cubs or Dodgers, he'll give them a major step in the direction of the playoffs. But he'll come at a very high price. These trades generally favor the teams giving up high-priced talent, not the ones taking it on. Dressed to sell: There has been no official announcement, but a Major League Baseball source confirms the rumor that players will not be allowed to wear their team's uniforms during the upcoming All-Star Game. Instead, the July 15 game at U.S. Cellular Field will mark the unveiling of official National and American League jerseys, such as the ones that have been worn for the home-run-hitting contest in recent years. Caps will be the way to tell which teams they represent. "I don't understand why they would want to change that," said Angels third baseman Troy Glaus, a probable All-Star. "It's not really relevant to the game. We're proud of the teams we play for, and we're proud of the uniforms we wear." Anaheim teammate Garret Anderson said, "It's cool to see all the different uniforms." He's right, but distinctive jerseys, such as those from the homer contest, have proved popular with buyers. So once again tradition goes down for the count in a head-to-head battle with the chance to create revenue. No appetite for humor: Minor-league baseball teams have some of the silliest names in sports. But Alabama state Rep. Alvin Holmes believe the operators of Tampa Bay's Southern League team have gone too far. In announcing plans to relocate the team from Orlando to Montgomery, Ala., officials with the franchise announced it would switch names from Rays to Biscuits. That's right. The Montgomery Biscuits. Holmes called the new name an "embarrassment" to the city, which is Alabama's state capital. "We need a name that will brighten the city, not one that will make the city look country and backward," Holmes said. Mismanagement: Because nobody else seems to have noticed it, we'll offer that Sox manager Jerry Manuel made a couple of terrible decisions with Garland recently. As a result, he missed a great chance to help Garland gain confidence and perhaps turn a corner in his career. Manuel pulled Garland after eight shutout innings and only 95 pitches May 28 at Toronto, denying him the chance to nail down his second career shutout. That decision is debatable, as it allowed Billy Koch to get an inning of work he needed (although you could ask why he didn't use him in 11-5 and 5-1 losses the previous two days). But there's no defending his decision to move Esteban Loaiza in front of Garland after a May 30 rainout jumbled the plans. He said he did it because Loaiza wanted to stay on four days' rest. That meant Garland had six days' rest before facing Arizona on Wednesday. It also meant that Garland, who grew up in Granada Hills, Calif., will start Tuesday in Chicago rather than Sunday in Los Angeles. So much for what might have been a once-in-a-career chance to pitch in his hometown. Was it really surprising he pitched badly against the Diamondbacks? And how sharp will he be when Barry Bonds digs in on Tuesday? Loaiza is pitching great, but the development of young pitchers must remain the White Sox's priority. The last word: "Guys are always looking for edges. They tell you if you aren't cheating, you're not trying. You hear statements like that and you laugh them off, like it's not a big deal. But actually, some guys take that to heart."?Braves right fielder Gary Sheffield on the culture of deception that contributed to Sosa's use of a corked bat. 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AJBurnett34 Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 I dont want Lowell to leave but the Cubs are offering some good deals to us. Cruz will be perfect for a set up role that Nunez couldnt handle or if we need him as a Starter he can Start games too. They are offering one of their best prospects that could develop into a very good player when he gets brought up. I will take the chance but we need lowell to contend.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marlins02 Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 I dont blame him, Lowell is one of the best 3rd basemen in the NL along with Scott Rolen, i really cant even think of anyone in the AL that is as good as Lowell. If the Cubs really want him, they got to pay the price, and we need the best young talent to rebuild after the team gets dismantled, which will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterChief Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 just to add a thought... by asking for so much for lowell, the marlins are telling the other teams that lowell doesn't have to go,he can stay here, that if a team wants to trade for lowell, they are going to give up alot to get him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 I dont want Lowell to leave but the Cubs are offering some good deals to us. Cruz will be perfect for a set up role that Nunez couldnt handle or if we need him as a Starter he can Start games too. They are offering one of their best prospects that could develop into a very good player when he gets brought up. I will take the chance but we need lowell to contend.... Cruz is a starter working in the Cubs pen right now. He won't be our Set up man. He is supposed to be a much smaller, but almost as hard throwing version of AJ. Sisco has already been touted as the next Randy Johnson. And yet, as great as this deal would be. I still can muster up the balls to say the words "no" to the Cubs... Imagine what they would offer after that... :mischief2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DurableTear Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 I dont want Lowell to leave but the Cubs are offering some good deals to us. Cruz will be perfect for a set up role that Nunez couldnt handle or if we need him as a Starter he can Start games too. They are offering one of their best prospects that could develop into a very good player when he gets brought up. I will take the chance but we need lowell to contend.... Cruz is a starter working in the Cubs pen right now. He won't be our Set up man. He is supposed to be a much smaller, but almost as hard throwing version of AJ. Sisco has already been touted as the next Randy Johnson. And yet, as great as this deal would be. I still can muster up the balls to say the words "no" to the Cubs... Imagine what they would offer after that... :mischief2 Josh... saying "no" to that trade is plain stupid... Remember.. when Minaya had the benefit in that Colon deal? He said no... and traded Colon for nothing basicly compared to the Marlins' offer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expos Ranchod Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Cruz+Hill+one of those two prospects compares to what the Expos gave up for Colon and that was a unique situation. Cruz and Hill can help the Fish right now as a bonus. That would not be a bad deal at all for you guys. If I were the Cubs, I'd do that deal fast...they have so much young pitching that is already great the MLB level..Wood, Prior, Zambrano, Clement, that Wellemeyer kid,etc..that these arms are expendable. Especially to solve that 3B problem they have had for decades.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DurableTear Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Cruz+Hill+one of those two prospects compares to what the Expos gave up for Colon and that was a unique situation. Cruz and Hill can help the Fish right now as a bonus. That would not be a bad deal at all for you guys. If I were the Cubs, I'd do that deal fast...they have so much young pitching that is already great the MLB level..Wood, Prior, Zambrano, Clement, that Wellemeyer kid,etc..that these arms are expendable. Especially to solve that 3B problem they have had for decades.. And now that Slammin Corky will be out for 8 games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marlins02 Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 this has nothing to do with the trade, i just read the part about MLB making distinct jerseys for the two all-star teams. thats crazy, the all-stars have always worn their team jerseys; its tradition. now they're changing it to sell jerseys? damn, there's no fighting it, its all about money i guess. :angry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DurableTear Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 this has nothing to do with the trade, i just read the part about MLB making distinct jerseys for the two all-star teams. thats crazy, the all-stars have always worn their team jerseys; its tradition. now they're changing it to sell jerseys? damn, there's no fighting it, its all about money i guess. :angry I said it once and I'll say it again... Baseball is a business... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marlins02 Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 i know, i just wish their was a line where it stops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 I like the players being able to wear their team uni's. That's stupid. On the Lowell dealings....if the Marlins could pull off Cruz, Hill, Sisco and Guzman, Beinfest will have done his job. It would suck big time to lose Mike, but it wouldn't come as a shock to anyone. You would still wonder who's going to play 3rd base, or whether they're planning to bring up Cabrera next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiLLaz#8 Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 If the cubs do that (^^^^^^^^^^)trade they're dumb a**es. :lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Probably in the long term, but you know what? They're one of the teams that can afford to give up a lot for a chance for a playoff run. Chicago hasn't won a world series forever and I think they'll take the risk even if it costs them a couple of top prospects. It's not like Lowell is old, if they can sign him long term who wouldn't trade a top pitching prospect or two for a guy who looks like he may be an All-Star for years? That team is already very strong, and if you add a guy like Mike Lowell that lineup is a contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Fillet Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 On the Lowell dealings....if the Marlins could pull off Cruz, Hill, Sisco and Guzman, Beinfest will have done his job. If Beinfest did his job and signed Lowell to a cheaper, long term contract a year or two ago (a'la Oakland A's strategy) we wouldn't be dealing him off for a Kinder-Care full of prospects. Please do not credit Beinfest for anything other than ensuring the perpetuation of the Marlins as a glorifed Minor League team, developing talent for other teams to pluck away as it matures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Please do not credit Beinfest for anything other than ensuring the perpetuation of the Marlins as a glorifed Minor League team, developing talent for other teams to pluck away as it matures. Well Beinfest isn't the one with the tight wallet. I assume Loria has some input on what he's paying his own players.... I think Beinfest is a putz, all I'm saying is if they have to trade Lowell (which they don't) then that is a good return. Why these guys don't believe in longer-term contracts I have no idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Fillet Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Why these guys don't believe in longer-term contracts I have no idea Hmmm... I don't buy this whole "incentive for performance" crap Beinfest has been spewing either. The only reason I can think of is that the absence of long-term obligations leaves the organization with alot of flexibility. I think it does prove that Loria isn't thinking long term, for whatever reason. I do know it's alot easier to borrow money against an organization that doesn't have a lot of long-term debt. It also makes the organization more attractive to potential buyers. But seriously, I believe Loria and MLB at one time had (or may still have) an exit strategy here either for Loria and/or the franchise altogether, and avoiding long-term obligations ties into it. It may all go back to the cloak-and-dagger deal Bud and Loria worked out for the Spos' Fish swap. Who knows? One thing is for sure...The strategy sure isn't working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Shadow Posted June 9, 2003 Author Share Posted June 9, 2003 Hey Fish Fillet, I know your goal on this board is to be as negative and pathetic as your life is, some of us on this board realize what is happening and try to stay positive about it....but for you to come on this board and post your negative opinions about everything its pretty clear your not a fan. We don't need your negative comments about everthing the team does, I believe we get enough of that from the local media. You sound like one of those pigskin @-holes on the radio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malman Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Has anyone seen Fish Fillet or Orlando the a**hole from QAM in the same room together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Fillet Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Awww, you don't like it when I'm not unreasonably optimistic about everything the Marlins do? So instead, you try to flame me out and call me an a**hole and say I'm negative. I've seen the light. You guys are right. Beinfest is one of the best GM's around. He and Loria are a godsend, we shouldn't question their strategy, even though they have a track record that completely sucks. Maybe you are on to something, maybe I am one of the local media, part of a vast conspiracy to be negative about the Marlins. So, to edcanes and malman....GO back down to your parent's basement and get ready for your shift at McDonald's. Cause I'm gonna stay here and try to be realistic as possible about all the Marlins do. And if the reality is that they bungle alot of these moves, I'll be right here telling you so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Shadow Posted June 9, 2003 Author Share Posted June 9, 2003 No problem with you posting. I like when uninformed Fish come talk smack with NO FACTS! Alright Fish brain, lets see you brought up track record ok Loria three years as Expos owner 1. Signed Cabrera and Vidro to contracts 2. Keep Vlad G happy 3. Traded prospect for ML players 4. Signed free agents Lloyd / Lee Stevens 5. traded away broken down players like White and Urbina As Marlins owner trade away Dempster, Clement, AA, Wilson, CJ, Floyd and Millar. What do all those players have in common expect two they aren't living up the those expectation that the media thought they would. *Demspter he could lead a walkathon *Clement nice K numbers but a below .500 pitcher with a 9 million price tag *Floyd a one-legged DH playing in the NL *AA have you read the Chicago papers they running him out of town *CJ pass him prime *Wilson still the K's king and hitting Coors * Millar WAS A HUGE MISTAKE but no position for him in the NL Beinfest has done an OK job as GM(for being on the job for only two years) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expos Ranchod Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Loria three years as Expos owner 1. Signed Cabrera and Vidro to contracts 2. Keep Vlad G happy 3. Traded prospect for ML players 4. Signed free agents Lloyd / Lee Stevens 5. traded away broken down players like White and Urbina a couple of corrections: He didn't sign Cabrera to long term contract(OC never signed one) The prospects he traded for a ML player..well that player was the very crappy Hideki Irabu so it was a disaster of a trade.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Shadow Posted June 9, 2003 Author Share Posted June 9, 2003 Expos fan the bottomline did he get rid of Vlad and Vidro? NO The GM who made that deal is no longer in baseball but at the time did he try to improve the team? Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Fish Fillet, just to clarify, are you in fact even a Marlins fan? I don't remember ever hearing you mention it. I've got a nagging suspicion you're an Expos fan angry at Loria & Co. for what happened in Montreal. Not that there's anything wrong with that, you're free to do as you please. Just a hunch though. :mischief2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Fillet Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 No, I'm a Fish fan. To be even more acccurate, I'm a fan of Marlin players. I understand that there is probably no way that the team itself will compete, but having the oppurtunity to watch great players develop is the main reason why I follow them so closely. Imiagine if Lowell, or any other Marlin for that matter, goes on to another team and becomes truly great, you'll be one of the few who got to see them develop into the stars they are. AS for Loria's record as an owner.... Millar: Hitting the ball well, an obvious plus for the Sox (Did you see him yesterday?) Clement: One third of the second best young rotation in baseball. FLoyd: Worked through injury and is starting to break-out (10 HRs). This while playing in a line-up that offers him no protection. Wilson: Having a great year, hand-down. High teens in HR, 50+ RBI. And it's not b/c of Coors, look at his road splits this year, nearly 50/50 production b/t road and home As for his time at the Expos... Remember he had an exit strategy in place, he knew he wasn't long term there and one way or another operating revenue would come, whether via a move or MLB buy-out. If Loria is so great, why are the Expos moving? And why is it they start winning after he leaves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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