Rune Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 This is from James Carville's latest book Had Enough? This book is an amazing book for all democrats on how to improve the party and how to fight against The Republican Party. He also his own ideas for problems and issues rather than just bashing Bush's ideas(He goes after Bush but provides his own ways of getting around them). Either way a lot of people on both sides love this guy because he's honest and he's real. I loved this one policy he wants and it's about Suv's. The James Carville "Fuel or Freedom" Tax(excuse spelling errors because I typed this from the book) "We import roughly 10 million barrels of oil a day. Half of that is used in transporation. And more than half of all new vehicles sold are SUV's. Something's got to give. Now, I love SUV's as much as the next guy. In fact, until mine got stolen, it was my favorite thing to drive. BUt I'll be the first to admit, SUV's for urbanites and suburbanites make about as much sense for the people who drive them as putting a sweater on a dog, Seriously, how many SUV drivers do you know who need to ford a river and scale a mountain on the way home? Fuel economy today is at a twenty-two year low, and the reason is vehicles known as "light trucks"(SUV's, vans, and pickups). In 2001, sales of these "light trucks" surpassed car sales for the first time. In addition to being notorious gas - guzzlers, federal law allows vehicles in the "light truck" category to emit 75 percent more smog-forming emissions than cars. So Suvs don't just make us dependent... they make us sick. Now I'm not going to say that nobody's allowed to have an SUV but I think it's time for SUV Drivers to pay the costs that the luxury of sitting three feet above traffic and getting six miles to the gallon incur. That means we impose a nice fat "fuel or freedom" tax on every SUV sold in America. If you want an SUV, fine. You just have to pay the tax. And here's how we're going to calculate the tax. Back in 1962, a gallon of gas cost 34 cents. If you adjust for inflation, it would be over $2.00 today. Basically, gas right now is as cheap as it's ever been since WWII. But if you passed on consumers the true cost of gas -- the tax credits we five for oil or gas exploration, the military costs of keeping supply safe and steady--it would be about $4 a gallon. YOu figure out how many gallons the average SUV uses in a year and pay a tax of $2 a gallon(the difference between the pump cost and the true cost), and that's your Carville "fuel or freedom" tax." This goes further in the book but that's the main part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapeFish Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 I prefer Ms. Matalin (sp).....but he is fine too. He is funny, but he is a liberal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g8trz2003 Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 i didnt realize that gas is cheaper now than ever..i thought it was going up....maybe it is inflation....interesting I shall drive trucks for the rest of my life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Fillet Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Hmmmm.. levy a tax against people who drive vehicles that consume more gas.... Interesting, especially since these vehicles cost more than the traditional sedan. In other words, tax the rich, only lets' make it sound like it's for the environment and reducing our dependency on oil. I also wonder where about 100K auto workers would find new jobs after they get laid off when a tax was imposed on the most profitable market segment of the american auto industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Posted June 23, 2004 Author Share Posted June 23, 2004 i didnt realize that gas is cheaper now than ever..i thought it was going up....maybe it is inflation....interesting I shall drive trucks for the rest of my life He defends Truck Drivers who drive them for real reasons... Excuse the errors again, it's me typing "They'll say that you can differentiate between an SUV and a light truck. Now taxing the ever loving crap out of that whole category isn't really fair -- because a lot of folks make their livelihoods on their pickups.I would argue that not a single person does the same with their SUV. THat's why I've created the carville guide to identifying an SUV. It's this simple it's your car... -- Has four wheel drive as as well as a built - in DVD player, a sixCD changer or a satellite navigation system -- it's an SUV. -- Has a roof rack that in the catalog appears to be used for carrying ikes, kayaks, or lumber, but that you've never used -- it's an SUV -- HAs a name that is a verb turned into a noun(explore, escape, navigatge) or is also the name of a bucolic or rugged region(Dakokta, Yukon, Tahoe, Tundra) -- It's an SUV.. Appears in commercials circumnavigating the glove, driving through rivers, and scaling cliffs yet you mostloy see them in the parking lot of Pottery Bard -- you bet your sweet ass it's an SUV. IF any of these things apply to you or or car, you car subject to THe Caville "fuel or freedom" tax. If you feel you are being subjected to this tax in error, you should be allowed to go to the DMV, where they will test you by showing you a bass boat, horse carrier, or some other trailer and asking you to demostrate how to attach it to your vehicle(Hint: that shiny knob is a trailer hitch) He doesn't go after truck drivers, just yuppie suv owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Fillet Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 i didnt realize that gas is cheaper now than ever..i thought it was going up....maybe it is inflation....interesting I shall drive trucks for the rest of my life He defends Truck Drivers who drive them for real reasons... Excuse the errors again, it's me typing "They'll say that you can differentiate between an SUV and a light truck. Now taxing the ever loving crap out of that whole category isn't really fair -- because a lot of folks make their livelihoods on their pickups.I would argue that not a single person does the same with their SUV. THat's why I've created the carville guide to identifying an SUV. It's this simple it's your car... -- Has four wheel drive as as well as a built - in DVD player, a sixCD changer or a satellite navigation system -- it's an SUV. -- Has a roof rack that in the catalog appears to be used for carrying ikes, kayaks, or lumber, but that you've never used -- it's an SUV -- HAs a name that is a verb turned into a noun(explore, escape, navigatge) or is also the name of a bucolic or rugged region(Dakokta, Yukon, Tahoe, Tundra) -- It's an SUV.. Appears in commercials circumnavigating the glove, driving through rivers, and scaling cliffs yet you mostloy see them in the parking lot of Pottery Bard -- you bet your sweet ass it's an SUV. IF any of these things apply to you or or car, you car subject to THe Caville "fuel or freedom" tax. If you feel you are being subjected to this tax in error, you should be allowed to go to the DMV, where they will test you by showing you a bass boat, horse carrier, or some other trailer and asking you to demostrate how to attach it to your vehicle(Hint: that shiny knob is a trailer hitch) He doesn't go after truck drivers, just yuppie suv owners. Yeah, get after all those yuppies who actually made something of themselves and are enjoying some modicum of success!!!!!!! Tax the hell out of anyone remotly wealthy until they just aren't wealthy anymore!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Posted June 23, 2004 Author Share Posted June 23, 2004 Hmmmm.. levy a tax against people who drive vehicles that consume more gas.... Interesting, especially since these vehicles cost more than the traditional sedan. In other words, tax the rich, only lets' make it sound like it's for the environment and reducing our dependency on oil. I also wonder where about 100K auto workers would find new jobs after they get laid off when a tax was imposed on the most profitable market segment of the american auto industry. Carville used to drive one and still would, so obviously it's not simply about taxing the rich. If your buying a gas guzzling car simply for it's look rather than practical use you should be able to pay for it because it is going to guzzle gas. I'm sure he's about putting americans out of jobs just for the hell of it. I agree with this tax 100%. Those who buy SUV's are going to buy these vehicles with or without this tax because they have the money to buy a vehicle they don't need. It's not going to stop production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g8trz2003 Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 what about people who buy say, a 1997 Explorer for their kid? should there be a tax there? SUVs are safer than a hyundai. I'd feel much more comfortable in an explorer than in a toyota celica or somethin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Fillet Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 so obviously it's not simply about taxing the rich Yes, it is about taxing the rich. It is a punitive tax that attempts to deter individuals with more relative wealth from buying a product that they want. HOw about this... Unless you use a computer specifically for work purposes, you have to pay a tax for your CPU. After all, CPU's use electricity, and the increased need in energy further inflates our dependency on coal and other energy producing fuels. Besides, if you can afford a computer not becuase you need it for work, but only because you want one, then you can afford to pay a tax as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Posted June 23, 2004 Author Share Posted June 23, 2004 what about people who buy say, a 1997 Explorer for their kid? should there be a tax there? SUVs are safer than a hyundai. I'd feel much more comfortable in an explorer than in a toyota celica or somethin. It's on New SUV's. Where did you get that an SUV is safer than a hyundai , I wouldn't doubt it but still I would at least think The SUV producers would be shoving that down consumers faces who doubt their safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Posted June 23, 2004 Author Share Posted June 23, 2004 Yes, it is about taxing the rich. It is a punitive tax that attempts to deter individuals with more relative wealth from buying a product that they want. HOw about this... Unless you use a computer specifically for work purposes, you have to pay a tax for your CPU. After all, CPU's use electricity, and the increased need in energy further inflates our dependency on coal and other energy producing fuels. Besides, if you can afford a computer not becuase you need it for work, but only because you want one, then you can afford to pay a tax as well. You said it yourself with more wealth. If you have money to buy a vehicle you don't need for it's actual purposes(e.g. outdoors work) and you don't live in an area where you need it(Suv's are pointless in the city not just because you simply don't need it but in city traffic they simply clog up traffic) why the hell would a tax stop you from buying a vehicle that you can already easily afford? It's like saying that sales tax is bad because it's trying to stop you from buying a candy bar you have no problem afffording. Also your example is flawed from the start because it does not mention commerce across the internet which are a big part of the internet. Also did you forget a thing called Sales Tax? If your buying a computer chances are your paying a sales tax. You already have a tax on your products so you answered your own question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Fillet Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 what about people who buy say, a 1997 Explorer for their kid? should there be a tax there? SUVs are safer than a hyundai. I'd feel much more comfortable in an explorer than in a toyota celica or somethin. It's on New SUV's. Where did you get that an SUV is safer than a hyundai , I wouldn't doubt it but still I would at least think The SUV producers would be shoving that down consumers faces who doubt their safety. SUV's are exponentially safer than cars b/c of thier curb height. This is a pretty common, fully documented and well known fact and has been for some time. The big rap on SUV's is that while they are safer, they kill alot of people who ride in traditional cars, ie the bumper of my Ford Exploder is at about the same height as your head when you are driving your Honda Accord. Think about what happens when I T-Bone you doing 60. Because of the safety double-sided sword of being safer but killing more people the SUV manufacturers aren't trumping safety up too much. I just like 'em becuase it makes me seafer than all of those poor people who drive cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g8trz2003 Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 a big knock on SUVs is flipping it.... well, I have a truck, which could flip I guess (btw, it's a Dodge Ram....named "Dodge Ramrod")...i mean it has a 3 1/2 inch lift, and I'm gonna see how big of tires I can put on there with it...probably bout 33 inches or so...so, it could flip....but I know it can flip...therefore I drive that way....I dont do donuts in it, or go 110 in it. That's just dumb. Common sense says: I'm in a car that could flip...I better stay somewhat near the speed limit so if I must shift lanes really quick, I don't flip. Because I can say that I've switched lanes quickly in a Tahoe, my truck, and a Jeep Wrangler (which flips very easily, but it does have a roll cage) at high speeds.....but I didnt flip...hell I've done it when raining! High speed being 80 at the most. It's stupid to go higher than that unless you're in a vehicle made to go fast (i.e. sports car). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g8trz2003 Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 i think the consensus is not necessarily "dont drive an SUV if you dont need to", but rather "dont drive an SUV unless you understand how to drive one". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lcyberlina Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Rune... You should know better! How dare you suggest the rich should pay taxes... My goodness how dare you! :mischief Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Texan Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 but are SUV's really safer than cars? the safety standards for SUVS is much lower than in cars. This also is a well known. SUV's give people a false sense of security anda sense of invisibility. this is probably the biggest problem with these vehicles aside from teh fact that they get such pathetic gas mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g8trz2003 Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 das...that i think is the problem...people get a false sense of security. They ARE safer....but they aren't safe if you dont drive safely. This goes back to common sense. Learn to drive an SUV before you do. But SUVs are safer. I used to have a Silverado. The doors could withstand a 35 mph vehicle broadsiding it before ANYTHING would happen. And people in Florida think SUVs might be pointless, but a 4wd Explorer or Jeep Grand Cherookee is needed...as opposed to driving a Honda in places where there is ice. Up north, and out west they salt roads, etc...but like in South Carolina, North Georgia, Tennessee, NC, etc. if it ices over, the only vehicles out are 4wd vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 I like Carville.... however I think in this case they need to concentrate on offering better incentives to buy fuel efficient vehicles. If there are affordable alternatives without a big loss in performance, plenty of people will hop aboard. Heck, I'd jump at the chance to own one. I know there are supposed to be tax breaks if you buy a hybrid gas-electric car for example, but there are only a couple on the market and there's a ridiculous waiting list in most cases to buy one of these. Ford has tested a hybird Escape SUV that gets 38 mph in the city. Put more pressure on the auto makers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Texan Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 has ford finally released that escape to the public yet? that was supposed to happen last summer originally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 I think the 2005 version will be the first hybrid SUV available. However, the price tag will be about 5 or 6 grand more than the regular version, so forget about it saving you any money... It's the same story with the Toyota Prius, a comparable car is about 5 grand less (without the hybrid engine). Who's going to bother buying a fuel-efficient vehicle that will save gas & money if you've got to pay so much more for one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Texan Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 and the tax breaks the IRS would give you will be nil i think by next year. however if the demand rises for whatever reasons....then the costs associated with hybrids will decrease. of course the government should put pressure on the automakers to make hybrid engines more affordable and available....but that would decrease the amount of oil needed.....:plain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 i should clarify that a little... the price is about 4 K more than a regular Escape, and the Clean Fuel Vehicles tax deduction you can get is about $1500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Texan Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 and if i'm not mistaken it was higher a couple years ago and will be less in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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