rferry Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Maybe it's time to sacrifice some pitching for offense. How many times have we seen average starters come here to play half their games at PPS and put together respectable seasons? Just this year look at Pavano and Valdez. There was also Rapp, Dempster, Burkett, Redman, the developing Burnett/Beckett/Penny and Willis. For the every year of this franchise there's been atleast one starter who has overachieved. I say take the risk and throw a Logan Kensing, Nate Bump, Justin Wayne or Trevor Hutchinson in place of a Pavano and/or Valdez, and use that available cash to get a Jose Guillen, Carlos Beltran or Richie Sexson. The upgrade in offense far outweighs the loss in pitching talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc marlin Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 I concur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinFan10 Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Number one priotory: Give Ramon Castro a lucrative, long-term deal. :plain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fritz Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Richie Sexson, no way. Beltran and Guillen are sweet though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer_fran Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 If we can't pay Pavano 9-10 million. How are we going to be able to pay Beltran or Sexson 11-12 million. Also, if we were to go after a big free agent bat, I'd go after J.D. Drew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rferry Posted October 1, 2004 Author Share Posted October 1, 2004 They're just examples, although I do think younger sluggers who don't strike out 120-200 times a year are the best fit for the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rferry Posted October 1, 2004 Author Share Posted October 1, 2004 If we can't pay Pavano 9-10 million.? How are we going to be able to pay Beltran or Sexson 11-12 million. Also, if we were to go after a big free agent bat, I'd go after J.D. Drew. 578040[/snapback] By trading Encarnacion with LoDuca or Mota for Jose Guillen or a cheap SP and prospect. I was figuring this at work: Redmond 1.2 Burnett 32.9 Conine 5.9 Beckett 36.4 Willingham 6.3 Willis 36.9 Castillo 11.6 Valdez 38.4 Lowell 19.6 Wayne/Bump/? 38.8 Gonzalez 23.1 Cabrera 23.6 Pierre 27.1 Benitez 43.3 Cordero/Easley 28.1 Spooney 43.7 Mordy/Harris 28.4 Seanez 44.1 Aguila 28.8 Perisho 44.5 Wilson 29.1 Weathers 45.7 ? 29.4 Howard/? 46 That gives you $8 million to add a bat or two with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fritz Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 They're just examples, although I do think younger sluggers who don't strike out 120-200 times a year are the best fit for the team. 578041[/snapback] Who cares about strike outs? It's better than a GIDP. I'll take Dunn and his 45 HRs and 200Ks as opposed to someone who'll hit 28 HRs and 120Ks and 40 GIDPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rferry Posted October 1, 2004 Author Share Posted October 1, 2004 Much better a warning track fly than a strikeout. When you play half your games at spacious PPS and have the type of team speed we do, you want guys who put the ball in play more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Good idea if management minimizes the road starts of this "average pitcher," but it seems we might have 2 next season when we lose Pavano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rferry Posted October 2, 2004 Author Share Posted October 2, 2004 Maybe next year McKeon could also skip his 5th starter when the opportunity arises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Shadow Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 If Carl walks, you make sure your bullpen stays strong. Armando and Weathers need to be brought back. Mota needs to be sign. Again though, IMO the organization will make a trade for a starter or sign a guy like a Tony Armas Jr. Someone who could blossom under are staff. Also with the money left on table by Carl, you could go after a good bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBMarlin Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 The problem isn't that our team can't hit.....they haven't hit well when it counts, with RISP. My bet is a change at hitting coach would be more productive than adding high priced bats. Starting pitching is what this team is built upon, and must remain a priority. Pavano should be willing to discuss deferred salary arrangements. Valdez has been effective as a 5th starter...and won't break the bank.....i.e. wont' cost anymore than Oliver who was a bust. I just hope the FO pays better attention to their bullpen this offseason. Re-signing Benitez is a priority...perhaps he is willing to take a mil or so less than he would get on the open market to stay here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobaincola Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 The problem isn't that our team can't hit.....they haven't hit well when it counts, with RISP. My bet is a change at hitting coach would be more productive than adding high priced bats. Starting pitching is what this team is built upon, and must remain a priority. Pavano should be willing to discuss deferred salary arrangements. Valdez has been effective as a 5th starter...and won't break the bank.....i.e. wont' cost anymore than Oliver who was a bust. I just hope the FO pays better attention to their bullpen this offseason. Re-signing Benitez is a priority...perhaps he is willing to take a mil or so less than he would get on the open market to stay here. 578160[/snapback] That's true but at the same time we are at the bottom with regard to homers and we will only get worse next season you expect 25 homers from Gonzo next season? As far as Ks, I don't really care about them so long as the hitter has alot of power and gets on base. Dunn's OBP is a nice .388 So who cares if he Ks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTrainFan Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 how about someone with a awesome Bat AVG with the bases loaded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rferry Posted October 2, 2004 Author Share Posted October 2, 2004 how about someone with a awesome Bat AVG with the bases loaded? 578209[/snapback] It varies for players year to year. There are very very very few players who perform consistently well w/ runners in scoring position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer_fran Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 I still think the best option would be to resign Pavano, but if we were too let him go, I think this would be the best alternative. This would include trading Lo Duca to the mets who are looking for a catcher, for Victor Zambrano. Enc would also be included in this deal. (Their the mets they'll do it. ). Then signing JD Drew to play RF. Lowell (8) Castillo(5.33) Conine (4.75) Gonzalez (3.4) Pierre (3.4) Drew(9) Willingham (.3) Cabrera (.5) Beckett (2.5) Burnett (4) Willis (.5) Zambrano(1.5)This number I really just pulled out of my ass, I really have no idea what he'll make next year. he made 335K this year so I wouldn't think it'd be any more than $2 million. Valdez(1) Mota (2) Spooneybarger (.5) Perisho (.5) Bump (.5) Howard (.7) Messenger(.3) Gracesqui(.3) Mordecai (.5) Redmond(1) 2nd utility man(.5) Aguila(.3) cheap backup OF'er(.5) Hampton (11) Pudge (2) Total $61.38 Under this scenario, if Loria raises the payroll to $65 million, and if Benitez takes about $5 million next year I might think about signing Benitez and trading Mota. Also, Willingham, and Red would share time at catcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rferry Posted October 2, 2004 Author Share Posted October 2, 2004 FFran, I like Drew but with his health we need a really good bench. Zambrano's poor command makes him a bad candidate for pitching at PPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTrainFan Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 I still think the best option would be to resign Pavano, but if we were too let him go, I think this would be the best alternative. This would include trading Lo Duca to the mets who are looking for a catcher, for Victor Zambrano. Enc would also be included in this deal. (Their the mets they'll do it. ). Then signing JD Drew to play RF. Lowell (8) Castillo(5.33) Conine (4.75) Gonzalez (3.4) Pierre (3.4) Drew(9) Willingham (.3) Cabrera (.5) Beckett (2.5) Burnett (4) Willis (.5) Zambrano(1.5)This number I really just pulled out of my ass, I really have no idea what he'll make next year. he made 335K this year so I wouldn't think it'd be any more than $2 million. Valdez(1) Mota (2) Spooneybarger (.5) Perisho (.5) Bump (.5) Howard (.7) Messenger(.3) Gracesqui(.3) Mordecai (.5) Redmond(1) 2nd utility man(.5) Aguila(.3) cheap backup OF'er(.5) Hampton (11) Pudge (2) Total $61.38 Under this scenario, if Loria raises the payroll to $65 million, and if Benitez takes about $5 million next year I might think about signing Benitez and trading Mota. Also, Willingham, and Red would share time at catcher. 578220[/snapback] not bad :thumbup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer_fran Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 FFran, I like Drew but with his health we need a really good bench. Zambrano's poor command makes him a bad candidate for pitching at PPS. 578230[/snapback] well at 61.58 that gives us some flexibility to bring in some quality guys off the bench. Also, Willingham could spell Drew in right field if he were to go down. I don't see how bad command has anything to do with PPS. AJ, and Dontrelle have had success and they haven't always had the best command. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer_fran Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 Also, Beltran will command 2-3 million more than Drew while Drew has a career OPS 60 points higher than Beltran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMLinkinPark Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 i like what Frans thinking.. Just have to wait and see what happens in the offseason.. Beinfest always seems to have somethin up his sleeve.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuickGold Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 You cant win without good pitching. Good pitching > good offense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rferry Posted October 2, 2004 Author Share Posted October 2, 2004 You cant win without good pitching.? Good pitching > good offense 578263[/snapback] Tell that to the Marlins, Yankees or Cardinals (or the Dolphins). We'd still have Beckett, Burnett and Willis ready to go for the playoffs. Think of it like this. If you have a short left field porch in your ballpark you want to take advantange of it. Instead of overspending for lefthanders with upper deck power you go after lefthanders with bleacher seats power so you can spend more to replace that righthander whose fly balls tend to die with an even better one. Edit: I think that made it harder to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NirvanaNole Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 I'd go nuts if we signed Drew. He is my favorite Nole baseball player of all time and I used to watch him at FSU when I was in high school. He'd be the perfect #3 hitter for our team. I don't think we'll be able to afford Drew, though. :confused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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