Earlier this season I raised the idea that we need a change at manager. That was met by many objections because McKeon was manager of the 2003 team.

 

I believe this team has quit on Jack McKeon. As many of you have noted our numbers are not bad. But we are losing. We are losing to good teams and bad teams. We are losing to good pitchers and bad pitchers.

 

Offense: When players don't hit it will be difficult to score, but where has our small ball skills gone? The three run HR is nice but when it is not there we have the players that should be able to generate runs. Steals are way down, Hit & Runs are so rare for us, sacraficing has been horrible at times and moving runners over with smart outs is something we do not do.

 

Bullpen: In 2003 our pen was not too good. We made it through with Looper and Uggie, but we were fortunate. Last year McKeon was so unhappy with his young pen, he managed it poorly and it was a disaster. We all loved the pen this year and yet it is not where we think it should be. What is the common thread? Jack McKeon. He has never managed a pen well. Roles are poorly defined and no one ever pitches up to expectations (aside from Todd Jones).

 

Communication: Pierre, Mota, AJ, whoever whined about the lineups. Jack is doing what he wants...and he has lost the teams following.

 

If you believe Jack is the right man for the job then you must think this team just is not that good. Not good enough to play better than .500 ball and certainly not good enough to win the division. So everyone ready for a managerial change? If THAT does not give the team a boost then you move some players such as FA's to be that may not be re-signed and/or Mike Lowell since Cabrera may be our future 3B. But lets gives these guys a few weeks under the the leadership of new blood.

This team is good enough, BS.

 

They're just not maximizing their ability.

You know what Stag?

 

I agree, this team needs to play more small ball.

You know what Stag?

 

I agree, this team needs to play more small ball.

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How will small ball help when the team is down 8-0?

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It will help improve our record in one run games. :thumbup

I agree with the small ball statement.

 

Though I'd rather they be a big inning, homerun sort of team if it means they can solve thier big inning/small ball identity crisis. They gotta pick one or the other.

Because you start playing small ball at the start of the game...you stay in the game...you don't allow it to become 8-0. You score a run here and there and you put pressure on opponent.

 

When youy are shutout for now...24 innings? You start the next game with small ball in mind. When the run run homers return we can become more conservative and wait for the big inning.

Jack is the man, but it is time. A while back I was afraid that he was losing control. Ths team just doesn't seem to play hard. Some changes need to be made. Team meetings have been tried and failed miserably. Tried sneding guys to the minors(bullpen) and bringing others up. The only other option is a trade and every team has to know that we are desperate right now so any major trade probably going to cost the farm. It's time for the coaching change. Jack will always be remembered for what he did for this team in 2003, but his time to go is now.

:plain

 

 

My only contribution to this thread is to say that Jack was widely praised for his bullpen management with the Reds. Not that that is relevant to what is happening now or this thread. So yeah....

Because you start playing small ball at the start of the game...you stay in the game...you don't allow it to become 8-0. You score a run here and there and you put pressure on opponent.

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Maybe.

 

But rarely do we ever get a baserunner with none out.... or very often with one out for that matter.

el penguino,

 

We have 0 runs the last 24 innings. All I am saying is that it's time to make smart outs when a runner is on 2nd and move him to third. It is time to focus on laying down a simple sacrafice bunt. It is time to put runners in motion. How will that make things worse? We are a .500 team that hasn't scored in 2 1/2 games.

 

Do whatever is possible to bring in 1 run. Then do whatever is possible toi bring in the 2nd run. Along the way we may get a lead. Along the way we may put pressure on teams. Along the way we may open up opportunities to go for the fences an a favorable count.

 

Our team is playing like it's XBOX. It's real baseball and that calls for real strategy.

Fire Bill Robinson.

I'd fire Robinson before I would fire McKeon. His offense has been underperforming for over a year now. Find a new hitting coach, and if that doesn't get the team going, then you have to look for a new manager...perhaps next year.

Because you start playing small ball at the start of the game...you stay in the game...you don't allow it to become 8-0. You score a run here and there and you put pressure on opponent.

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Maybe.

 

But rarely do we ever get a baserunner with none out.... or very often with one out for that matter.

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RFerry,

 

I can't argue with that. But is there any reason why Pierre, Castillo, Encarnacion, LoDuca and Gonzalez (as he did today) can't put down a bunt for a basehit to lead off an inning?

 

Speaking of that..Our worst hitter, Lowell bats 5th and our 2nd worst hitter, Pierre bats leadoff. Meanwhile Gonzalez has as many RBIs as Lowell and has is batting an average of .280 and he bats 8th? Gonzalez (H+BB) and Pierre (H+BB) is almost the same but Pierre has scored like 20 more times. Gonzalez .281 average would mean more hits if he had more at bats (higher in the lineup) would get better pitches to hit and would score more runs if the pitchers and Pierre was not hitting while he ws on base.

 

I have sured so much on McKeon. I feel bad, I like the guy. I just think he is so stuck in his ways and has lost the teams following that there is little hope.

McKeon needs to go, Robinson needs to go, Lowell needs to go, Pierre needs to go, Enc needs to go. Get some bullpen help for them and another bat. Call up Wilingham. It's not like we're a winning team with them.

McKeon needs to go, Robinson needs to go, Lowell needs to go, Pierre needs to go, Enc needs to go. Get some bullpen help for them and another bat. Call up Wilingham. It's not like we're a winning team with them.

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:lol

McKeon needs to go, Robinson needs to go, Lowell needs to go, Pierre needs to go, Enc needs to go. Get some bullpen help for them and another bat. Call up Wilingham. It's not like we're a winning team with them.

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This isn't a video game where you can make changes at your whim and unload guys like that. Lowell isn't exactly a must have for teams with his recent play, same with Pierre.

We stopped running last year. Sure we didnt have the team speed we once had in 2003. But we stopped running last year.

 

 

Luis rarely runs anymore.

 

 

Juan Pierre has forgotten that he has speed and this is why he is in the big leagues.

 

 

Encarnacion when he is on never runs and he can.

 

 

Our team speed is nowhere near where it once was in the magical 2003 year.

 

 

We dont have an identity at this point. We dont know who we are. Until we figure that out....nothing matters.

I'm starting to think that in '03 we overachieved and we just aren't as good as these teams. The Braves kick our asses which a AAA team and we are going to be in last soon.

I don't see why we don't play Easely, Dillon and Niner more... heck they should rotate them in, give Pierre and Lowell an off day every other day. We just need something to go right...

I agree 100% that we need to go back to small ball. Watch your 2003 World Series DVD's (cause I know you all have them) and see how much we frustrated the Yankees right out of the gate. That being said, the last two nights haven't really been about philosophy cause when you're getting 3 and 4 hits a night there's not a whole lot there to work with--especially when JP is scuffling.

Also, I'm not sure what the bullpen management issues have been since it's a bit harder to get into the flow of the game from just looking at Gameday instead of watching the actual game. But if it's about last weekend's games, I think Jack was right to leave Moehler in Friday and right to take Willis out Saturday.

Heres why we havent been able to play small ball thus far. Juan Pierre. He was the catalyst for our offense, and we see that whenever he plays well, the team does too. I'm all for changing the order around and letting castillo, who is batting well into the 300s bat lead off, and perhaps putting lo duca second. A lineup similar to this may help the team

 

Castillo

loduca

Cabrera

delgado

niner

sea bass

lowell

pierre

I hate to say it, but Jack is getting that "Pat Riley" look in his eye. You know, the Pat circa 2003, when all hope seemed to be lost on a .500 Heat team.

 

We all know Jack doesn't "need this f*****g job".

 

I could honestly see him stepping down, maybe as soon as the AS break. That would relieve Loria the personal tramua of firing him. We'd need a new manager pronto (as well as a bench coach, "at least").

hey marlins226 who replaces Jack,....Admin Bowa?

 

on a more serious note, does mordy have to coach a certain amount of minor league games before he becomes MLB coaching eligble?

Yeah, he has to spend 1 year in the minors before he can enter the minor league coaching draft in the offseason. It's doubtful we'll have a high enough draft pick.