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Has Jack lost his freaking mind??


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WTF? First he takes out Olsen and brings in Bump to pitch to Sheets with the pitchers spot coming in the bottom of the inning. Then he keeps Mota in to pitch with Gonzo on first, then brings in Lenny when he is down 0-2. WTF???

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Olsen was way over his pitch count and Bump got out of the inning, what are you complaining about?

Jack let Guillermo hit because he didn't want to dig into his bullpen if he brought in a pinch hitter. Plus Alex was just on first, once he stole second the whole face of the inning changed. He figured we had a chance to do something now that Alex was in scoring position, so he brought Lenny in. At this time the count was already 0-2 on Guillermo. What would you have done? Let Guillermo strike out, or bring in an experienced pinch hitter that could get us the lead?

I seriously don't understand you people. A lot of you guys digust me.

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What would I have done when the count was 0-2? I probably would have kept Mota in. Even the Brewer announcers where shocked at Jack's moves in the game. THere is no reason we should be in 3rd place in the NL east with our roster.

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Guest FlummoxedLummox

Hand the duties to Mark Wiley

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Seriously. While McKeon was gone, the handling of the bullpen was a thing of beauty -- organized and planned. With Jack, pitchers are warmed up, then sat down, then asked to warm up again, all for nothing because he decides on a whim to use someone else. Wiley put in our best arms at the right times, in a clear order based on their previous performances. Jack's order is all willynilly, with seemingly little reason behind it.

 

 

On another Jack note: His inexplicable managerial decisions are nothing new, as he's done them since the beginning of his tenure. The "Mike Mordecai defensive replacement turned into game winning homerun" jumps to mind immediately, showing they don't always come back to bite us in the rear. And today's moves, though seriously befuddling, didn't cost us the game either - that blame falls squarely on the shoulders of the lame offense, and poor defense. Nonetheless, the decisions he makes really cause me a lot of stress. It's just that when we win, the stress is alleviated by the elation of winning. When we lose, though, the fans -- needing to vent about something -- use the crazy, glaringly boneheaded, but not necessarily detrimental Jack-moves as a target.

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walking sheets in the earlier inning hurt too.

 

Lets try to look at the bright side (because if not I think we all are gonna blow our tops).

 

The cubs lost yesterday and the nationals lost yesterday.

Olsen showed great promise and played a great game yesterday. He is gonna be a good pitcher and I love that slider.

 

Lo Duca cant hold onto a ball, but Alex showed he knows how to throw home perfectly (that was a strike).

 

We still have a few more games against the brewers with Beckett and burnett coming up. Then we get the cubs over the weekend. I think we will do fine still for the rest of the homestand. We can win 5 of the next 6. If we stop making foolish errors, 4 games now it has cost us.

 

I dont get the 2 strike stuff. Except that Gonzo got to second when he didnt expect him to. But, whatever.

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I dont get the 2 strike stuff. Except that Gonzo got to second when he didnt expect him to. But, whatever.

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Mota and Harris will be the first ever players to ever have half an AB..

:lol

 

*expects someone to say if willingham came up he wouldve hit the ball*

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I was in such disbelief that I turned my muted TV back on and listened to both the radio and TV commentary.

Agon on first. Two outs. Is Mota supposed to sacrifice him over? Third Out.

Why not take a chance on a Pinch-Hitter? Take a chance on making something happen. A long-shot, but a shot.

Even the Brewers' announcers thought it "strange."

And when he put Lenny in with two strikes... choke, choke.

IMO, again, Jack is finished.

Saw a posting today herein suggesting Wiley take over.

I have no problem with that.

I wonder what Dunlop and Wiley REALLY think and feel after that game.

Their cronie Jack choked.

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WTF? First he takes out Olsen and brings in Bump to pitch to Sheets with the pitchers spot coming in the bottom of the inning. Then he keeps Mota in to pitch with Gonzo on first, then brings in Lenny when he is down 0-2. WTF???

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I agree, I felt the same thing. I'll tell you one thing; I saw this one game from my mom's home because of the holiday and it was the perfect game from a television view to get an idea of what's going on with Jack in relation to his players because you got a closeup that you can't get when you're in the stadium unless you pay for the expensive seast right behind the ondeck circle.

 

The closeup that I'm referring to is when Lenny is called to pinch hit with the 0-2 count and he's practically laughing in a manner that seems to say "How the f#@k is this guy bringing me up with an 0-2 count!" What added to this shot was Juan Pierre whispering something to him that seemed to be along the lines of, "You see this sh!t! If you get out, it's his f#@k up---don't worry about it, he won't be here long." Lenny kept that little laugh up until he reached the plate and even almost chased the first pitch, but he struck out on the second one.

 

Everyone in the room with me started to laugh at that shot as Tommy Hutton was discussing how he had been in that hitting situation before. Did anyone else that saw the game from home or was right there next to Lenny and JP in the stadium get anything else out of that little discussion?

 

Some of you questioned me when I said that what we see happening with the Marlins is similar to what we saw with them under their second stent with John Boles or when the Mets of the early 90s under Bud Harrelson tanked the season, just to get him fired. Those of you that questioned me, if you saw that shot of Lenny and JP, do you still doubt it? Gary Sheffield's recent comments about him being traded should let you know what type of minds we have in sports and what athletes are willing to do to get their way. Hey, Michael Jordan was ousted out of the Washington Wizards organization by the coop run by the younger players.

 

In short, Admin do something!!! There are so many reasons to make a change; not just strategical decisions.

 

On another note, is anyone going to tell Mike Lowell to revisit the fundamental swing that we all learned in T-Ball. He is taking some wacky wiffs at the ball.

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"...I saw this one game from my mom's home because of the holiday and it was the perfect game from a television view to get an idea of what's going on with Jack in relation to his players...when Lenny is called to pinch hit with the 0-2 count and he's practically laughing in a manner that seems to say "How the f#@k is this guy bringing me up with an 0-2 count!" What added to this shot was Juan Pierre whispering something to him that seemed to be along the lines of, "You see this sh!t! If you get out, it's his f#@k up---don't worry about it, he won't be here long." Lenny kept that little laugh up until he reached the plate and even almost chased the first pitch, but he struck out on the second one."

 

"...Did anyone else that saw the game from home or was right there next to Lenny and JP in the stadium get anything else out of that little discussion?"

 

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You're projecting your dislike of the manager onto the players and unless you can read lips, I suggest you most probably have the conversation all wrong. But at least your diatribe accomplishes one thing, it shows us how much you know about the game and how players interact.

 

JP and Harris are a mutual admiration society. if anything JP was trying to help Lenny get ready for what would be a very difficult situation to be thrown into, trying to boost him up, maybe telling him what he saw from Sheets in his at bats, telling Lenny's "he's the man", etc.

 

Jack knew what he was asking Lenny to do and Lenny knew what Jack was asking him to do. Lenny made contact, a milimeter difference on the bat and the game is tied.

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And according to the papers, Lenny probably was told he was going to hit if someone reached second base.

 

Todays papers suggest a well-conceived, non-executed plan whereby AGON was suppose to steal on pitch #1. If he makes it, Lenny hits down 0-1. He stole on pitch #2 and thus started out 0-2. If he would have been thrown out, Mota pitches another inning.

 

Lenny knows why he is on this team. Most forum posters did not want Lenny around but, for some reason, he is still here. Funny how that works

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And according to the papers, Lenny probably was told he was going to hit if someone reached second base.

 

Todays papers suggest a well-conceived, non-executed plan whereby AGON was suppose to steal on pitch #1. If he makes it, Lenny hits down 0-1. He stole on pitch #2 and thus started out 0-2. If he would have been thrown out, Mota pitches another inning.

 

Lenny knows why he is on this team. Most forum posters did not want Lenny around but, for some reason, he is still here. Funny how that works

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"...I saw this one game from my mom's home because of the holiday and it was the perfect game from a television view to get an idea of what's going on with Jack in relation to his players...when Lenny is called to pinch hit with the 0-2 count and he's practically laughing in a manner that seems to say "How the f#@k is this guy bringing me up with an 0-2 count!" What added to this shot was Juan Pierre whispering something to him that seemed to be along the lines of, "You see this sh!t! If you get out, it's his f#@k up---don't worry about it, he won't be here long." Lenny kept that little laugh up until he reached the plate and even almost chased the first pitch, but he struck out on the second one."

 

"...Did anyone else that saw the game from home or was right there next to Lenny and JP in the stadium get anything else out of that little discussion?"

 

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You're projecting your dislike of the manager onto the players and unless you can read lips, I suggest you most probably have the conversation all wrong. But at least your diatribe accomplishes one thing, it shows us how much you know about the game and how players interact.

 

JP and Harris are a mutual admiration society. if anything JP was trying to help Lenny get ready for what would be a very difficult situation to be thrown into, trying to boost him up, maybe telling him what he saw from Sheets in his at bats, telling Lenny's "he's the man", etc.

 

Jack knew what he was asking Lenny to do and Lenny knew what Jack was asking him to do. Lenny made contact, a milimeter difference on the bat and the game is tied.

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I'm not projecting my thoughts, I'm pointing out what it appeared to be considering that JP is one of the players that is one of the players that isn't happy with Jack. That isn't my report, it has been reported in a few media outlets in our community. Have you not heard these? Some of the people that I was with want Jack to stay, but they were even bothered by that image of JP and Lenny. Why do you think that Lenny had that far from joyous smile. And what do you think that JP said considering that he didn't seem to share the laugh or smile that Lenny had?

 

As for as the sarcasm about my knowing about how players interact, here's a tidbit, genius; I do coach and am at the high school level. I've been involved with the game for about 20 years up to college. I think I can read a player's actions pretty well by now. Oh, and by the way, I have a winning record and a couple of rings from different levels to show for it. As far as Lenny making contact would've been difference; Yes, but aren't you tired of repeating that all season. I've been repteating that since last year. Maybe, it's because at the lower levels, we can't wait for the 3-run homer or to get 4 hits in an inning to score that make me disagree with what I see from Jack. However, there are many other managers, especially in the NL that play the same aggressive style that I believe in. Jack isn't an idiot, he just belongs in the AL.

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Sorry guy but this is a different situation than high school.

As I stated in a previous post, Lenny has been with McKeon since Cincy and probably knows what McKeon was thinking. Lenny is here, much to the chagrin on this forum, because of McKeon if any other reason.

 

The problem during that AB was that AGON did not steal on pitch #1 when he was suppose to. The papers support the move, just the plan was not executed well.

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Sorry guy but this is a different situation than high school.

As I stated in a previous post, Lenny has been with McKeon since Cincy and probably knows what McKeon was thinking. Lenny is here, much to the chagrin on this forum, because of McKeon if any other reason.

 

The problem during that AB was that AGON did not steal on pitch #1 when he was suppose to. The papers support the move, just the plan was not executed well.

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Yes, I agree that the high school game is different, and when I was in college, it was different, but "small ball" which is present at all levels from little league through MLB is essentially the same when you look at the core of what you're teaching and trying to accomplish. Whitey Herzog's 1980s "run at will" style that he used with the Cardinals was just like watching baseball at lower levels because they didn't depend on the HRs. Last I checked, he went to 3 World Series in 6 years, while winning one always beating those traditional HR-dependant teams. Jack can try it. Both of our championships were a product of versions of it thanks to Jim Leyland and Ozzie Guillen. Since when has Dolphins Satdium become favorable to waiting for a 3-run homer or 4 hits in an inning to score?

 

As for what happened in the situation, you explained that, but who can explain that exchange between JP and Lenny along with Lenny's smile? Anyone that saw it, considering the situation in the game, the reports about players being unhappy with Jack and his decisions (one being JP), among other things, it is extremely hard to not wonder what that was about and speculate if it wasn't an open display of players questioning one of Jack's move. Maybe, JP was just commenting on what you said about Gonzalez's blunder, but there seemed to be something definitely at work in the little exchange there, especially when you look at the expression on both players' faces. If you feel that JP was just telling him what Sheets was doing during the game, why wouldn't he tell him before they went to the ondeck circle together? Was it a secret that none of the coaches weren't allowed to hear since the only persons near them were other players at the edge of the dugout? Maybe, it was just a coincidence that this happened on a team that has players unhappy with a manager, with one of the reported unhappy players, outside of the dugout away from the coaching staff, near other players, along with their facial expressions. I agree that this is the MLB and that being in a classroom when I'm not coaching makes me incapable of guessing a person's mindset, intent, or possible discussion just by looking at them from a distance rather than hearing their exact words. It seems that Jack knows exactly what's going on with his team. I guess that all of the reports and anonymous quotes from players are imaginary.

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Digging deep. "Both of our championships were a product of versions of it thanks to Jim Leyland and Ozzie Guillen".....

 

Look at McKeon's record and it says that he has been far more successful in the NL than the AL. Funny thing though is that it is not McKeon, but the players who made the difference. Even funnier is that we dont have home run hitters in this lineup other than Delgado. As a brilliant, successful high school coach, would you wait for a 3R homer when only one guy on your team is a HR hitter?

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I really think you're reading too much into this. You're entitled to your opinion and your read of it, but neither player seems the type to be setting a negative tone at a crucial moment in the game.

 

If anything, and none of us knows, JP was probably just trying to pump his buddy up, and telling him to get on base, because he has coming up after him.

 

For myself, I can't draw the same conclusion you do, or make a connection between between clubhouse grumblings when the team is doing poorly (a few weeks ago) to this event where one swing of the bat puts the Fish right back in this thing.

 

Can't say you're wrong, just don't believe you're right on this one.

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Digging deep. "Both of our championships were a product of versions of it thanks to Jim Leyland and Ozzie Guillen".....

 

Look at McKeon's record and it says that he has been far more successful in the NL than the AL. Funny thing though is that it is not McKeon, but the players who made the difference. Even funnier is that we dont have home run hitters in this lineup other than Delgado. As a brilliant, successful high school coach, would you wait for a 3R homer when only one guy on your team is a HR hitter?

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Did you really need to ask that question? I would never depend on a HR to win a game. With baseball below the MLB level, true HR hitters are few and far between. You have no choice but to depend on manufacturing runs. Even if I was at the MLB level, I prefer the "small ball" method because you can score runs without even getting a hit and you can cause your opponent to make mistakes by adding pressure. Look at what happened to LoDuca yesterday. Also, a good pitcher can always stop a HR if he has his good stuff; he can't stop a runner from getting on base and stealing or a batter from bunting unless he pitches a perfect game. We have Pierre and Castillo and, with the exception from the last few games, they have been hibernating on the bases while they are waiting for the middle of the order to come up with a 3rd and 4th hit in an inning or a HR (which we do have more HR hitters than Delgado). Yesterday, the players lost this one, but what stands out is Jack's 2 odd moves. However, they would not be a focus if he wouldn't have made blunders previously. As for the lockerroom stuff; to think that the reports in the media are false is like thinking that there is absolutely no fire where you clearly see smoke. It may be something else entirely different, but you have to consider it as a possibility.

 

Admin, do something!!! Nothing is going to change under the status quo!

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"...I saw this one game from my mom's home because of the holiday and it was the perfect game from a television view to get an idea of what's going on with Jack in relation to his players...when Lenny is called to pinch hit with the 0-2 count and he's practically laughing in a manner that seems to say "How the f#@k is this guy bringing me up with an 0-2 count!" What added to this shot was Juan Pierre whispering something to him that seemed to be along the lines of, "You see this sh!t! If you get out, it's his f#@k up---don't worry about it, he won't be here long." Lenny kept that little laugh up until he reached the plate and even almost chased the first pitch, but he struck out on the second one."

 

"...Did anyone else that saw the game from home or was right there next to Lenny and JP in the stadium get anything else out of that little discussion?"

 

840422[/snapback]

 

You're projecting your dislike of the manager onto the players and unless you can read lips, I suggest you most probably have the conversation all wrong. But at least your diatribe accomplishes one thing, it shows us how much you know about the game and how players interact.

 

JP and Harris are a mutual admiration society. if anything JP was trying to help Lenny get ready for what would be a very difficult situation to be thrown into, trying to boost him up, maybe telling him what he saw from Sheets in his at bats, telling Lenny's "he's the man", etc.

 

Jack knew what he was asking Lenny to do and Lenny knew what Jack was asking him to do. Lenny made contact, a milimeter difference on the bat and the game is tied.

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I'm not projecting my thoughts, I'm pointing out what it appeared to be considering that JP is one of the players that is one of the players that isn't happy with Jack. That isn't my report, it has been reported in a few media outlets in our community. Have you not heard these? Some of the people that I was with want Jack to stay, but they were even bothered by that image of JP and Lenny. Why do you think that Lenny had that far from joyous smile. And what do you think that JP said considering that he didn't seem to share the laugh or smile that Lenny had?

 

As for as the sarcasm about my knowing about how players interact, here's a tidbit, genius; I do coach and am at the high school level. I've been involved with the game for about 20 years up to college. I think I can read a player's actions pretty well by now. Oh, and by the way, I have a winning record and a couple of rings from different levels to show for it. As far as Lenny making contact would've been difference; Yes, but aren't you tired of repeating that all season. I've been repteating that since last year. Maybe, it's because at the lower levels, we can't wait for the 3-run homer or to get 4 hits in an inning to score that make me disagree with what I see from Jack. However, there are many other managers, especially in the NL that play the same aggressive style that I believe in. Jack isn't an idiot, he just belongs in the AL.

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O.K. first of all high school baseball is like kindergarden compared to pro-baseball so please enough of your projecting BS about what the players are thinking, drinking or whatever. Even I coached in High School!!!! What the hell do you know what players are thinking or doing by watching 2 people on T.V. For all we know JP could have been trying to loosen him up by telling him Polish Jokes or pointing out their age differences and how he's such an "old" man...Who the hell knows????

 

Different rings at different levels...what levels are we talking about? T-ball, intra-mural, WTF???? Please for the record identify yourself. What High School and what RING did you win at different levels??? I know a lot of high school coaches here in South Florida, maybe I know you but I doubt it??? I managed the Marlins to 5 World Series titles in MVP Baseball 2004, so I know what I'm talking about.

 

Pro-baseball is about men not kids, and knowing how people interact with each other does not require coaching experience. What a useless post, have facts next time before you spew your insightful mind-reading tactics learned from your spectacular and "Ring" winning "coaching" career!!!!

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Do you really watch the games? "We have Pierre and Castillo and, with the exception from the last few games, they have been hibernating on the bases while they are waiting for the middle of the order to come up with a 3rd and 4th hit in an inning or a HR (which we do have more HR hitters than Delgado). "

 

These guys are put in these positions to drive in runs.

Pierre OB% is not been that great. His CS% is higher than 2003. He has a green light. Castillo is playing with a bad hip. Although he still can run, he is not at the same level as 2003. He also has a green light.

 

People complain that we bunt too much, not enough.. complain that we should/shouldn't steal in certain situations. Every fan forum is the same. In every game, people can question certain things but sometimes you must realize baseball is not a simple game.

 

By all recollections from scouts, Delgado is our only HR threat. Cabrera is still considered a gap hitter with power.

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"...I saw this one game from my mom's home because of the holiday and it was the perfect game from a television view to get an idea of what's going on with Jack in relation to his players...when Lenny is called to pinch hit with the 0-2 count and he's practically laughing in a manner that seems to say "How the f#@k is this guy bringing me up with an 0-2 count!" What added to this shot was Juan Pierre whispering something to him that seemed to be along the lines of, "You see this sh!t! If you get out, it's his f#@k up---don't worry about it, he won't be here long." Lenny kept that little laugh up until he reached the plate and even almost chased the first pitch, but he struck out on the second one."

 

"...Did anyone else that saw the game from home or was right there next to Lenny and JP in the stadium get anything else out of that little discussion?"

 

840422[/snapback]

 

You're projecting your dislike of the manager onto the players and unless you can read lips, I suggest you most probably have the conversation all wrong. But at least your diatribe accomplishes one thing, it shows us how much you know about the game and how players interact.

 

JP and Harris are a mutual admiration society. if anything JP was trying to help Lenny get ready for what would be a very difficult situation to be thrown into, trying to boost him up, maybe telling him what he saw from Sheets in his at bats, telling Lenny's "he's the man", etc.

 

Jack knew what he was asking Lenny to do and Lenny knew what Jack was asking him to do. Lenny made contact, a milimeter difference on the bat and the game is tied.

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I'm not projecting my thoughts, I'm pointing out what it appeared to be considering that JP is one of the players that is one of the players that isn't happy with Jack. That isn't my report, it has been reported in a few media outlets in our community. Have you not heard these? Some of the people that I was with want Jack to stay, but they were even bothered by that image of JP and Lenny. Why do you think that Lenny had that far from joyous smile. And what do you think that JP said considering that he didn't seem to share the laugh or smile that Lenny had?

 

As for as the sarcasm about my knowing about how players interact, here's a tidbit, genius; I do coach and am at the high school level. I've been involved with the game for about 20 years up to college. I think I can read a player's actions pretty well by now. Oh, and by the way, I have a winning record and a couple of rings from different levels to show for it. As far as Lenny making contact would've been difference; Yes, but aren't you tired of repeating that all season. I've been repteating that since last year. Maybe, it's because at the lower levels, we can't wait for the 3-run homer or to get 4 hits in an inning to score that make me disagree with what I see from Jack. However, there are many other managers, especially in the NL that play the same aggressive style that I believe in. Jack isn't an idiot, he just belongs in the AL.

840441[/snapback]

 

O.K. first of all high school baseball is like kindergarden compared to pro-baseball so please enough of your projecting BS about what the players are thinking, drinking or whatever. Even I coached in High School!!!! What the hell do you know what players are thinking or doing by watching 2 people on T.V. For all we know JP could have been trying to loosen him up by telling him Polish Jokes or pointing out their age differences and how he's such an "old" man...Who the hell knows????

 

Different rings at different levels...what levels are we talking about? T-ball, intra-mural, WTF???? Please for the record identify yourself. What High School and what RING did you win at different levels??? I know a lot of high school coaches here in South Florida, maybe I know you but I doubt it??? I managed the Marlins to 5 World Series titles in MVP Baseball 2004, so I know what I'm talking about.

 

Pro-baseball is about men not kids, and knowing how people interact with each other does not require coaching experience. What a useless post, have facts next time before you spew your insightful mind-reading tactics learned from your spectacular and "Ring" winning "coaching" career!!!!

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See, now I know that this is going nowhere when we get into the "full of crap" portion of any thread. You were a high school coach and you question a high school coach and teacher's ability to read into a person's mindset, intent, and even possible conversation based on observing? I noticed that you didn't mention your teaching either. It seems the only time that you've been near a classroom is when you were/are a student. How many times were/are you caught by your teachers in the class when you're in the back chatting or whatever other activity and the teacher knew exactly what was going on even though he/she didn't hear anything you said or saw what you did? What classes did you take when you were being certified to be at the high school level? Was it MVP Baseball 101? People may have their opinions, but to question a person that has experience with something they say is absurd especially when you reveal, by claiming to have the same experience, that you are full of sh!t. As for giving identities, you should know, if you really ever have been involved with high school, that we are bound by our contracts to not connect our career personalities with any personal stuff or agendas. Did you forget about that when you signed your K-Mart bought certificate and degree? If you want to know who I am, just pay attention to high school ball and maybe I'll throw a hint your way that you can understand without me violating my contractual obligations.

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