The Delgado Thread

[marlins161]

Because someone has a different opinion, another thread goes down the drain? 03 you were one of those saying no way Delgado was being shopped. So basically when your opinion is proven wrong, there is no room for dialogue?

[Strike 3]

It may be that an injection of youth is just what this team needs. Or it may be an ugly year. What's being ignored is who we might get in return for some of the players who are moved and who we'll acquire with the $$$ freed up by moving certain players. It's not all the doom and gloom some would paint.

 

That may be true and, as we know, the team that looks good on paper doesn't always work out. Unpopular moves were made in the past that turned out rather well. However, trading Delgado now would hurt a lot in so many ways. How will guys like Dontrelle and Beckett view such a move? The credibility hit will be huge with players and fans alike.

 

I have season tickets and I will go watch my team no matter what because I love baseball and the Fish. If the dark years didn't drive me away, nothing will. But let's face it, no season ticket holder is going to be happy about paying higher prices for what would likely be perceived as a downgraded team.

 

It would be nice to hear some good news! Sometimes it's hard to be patient.

[Marlins2003]

Because someone has a different opinion, another thread goes down the drain? 03 you were one of those saying no way Delgado was being shopped. So basically when your opinion is proven wrong, there is no room for dialogue?

 

 

Hey newbie, I know you're trying to make a splash here but your act is getting a bit old...

[Guest Moneyball]

http://www.forbes.com/2005/04/06/05mlbland.html

 

Look at the statistics how you wish.

 

But Forbes says the Marlins made 3M (in 2004) before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization.

[TSwift25]

Because someone has a different opinion, another thread goes down the drain? 03 you were one of those saying no way Delgado was being shopped. So basically when your opinion is proven wrong, there is no room for dialogue?

 

 

There's a difference between constructively carrying on a conversation and ridiculously and unnecessarily taking a contrary attitude to every statement made in response to your posts, and you, my irrational rookie, are doing the latter.

 

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, even one as misguided and unsubstantiated as yours, but under no circumstances are any of us required to agree with your chicken little theory because history with Jeffrey Loria tells us that the sky has been rumored to be falling for 5 years now, and it's yet to happen.

 

But thanks for letting us know, definitively, that it's happening this offseason. :thumbup

[Admin]

Olsen made 4 starts:

6/25 vs TB: 5.2 IP, 4 H, 2 R, 1 ER, 1 HR, 3 BB, 7 K

7/4 vs Mil: 5.2 IP, 6 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 0 HR, 3 BB, 8 K

7/9 vs Chi: 6.0 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 1 HR, 3 BB, 4 K

7/16 @ Phi: 1.2 IP, 5 H, 6 R, 3 ER, 2 HR, 1 BB, 1 K

 

So, where are you getting he was inconsistent from? He was really good in 3 of his 4 starts, in the 4th he went where Marlins pitchers go to die, Citizens Bank Park and got roughed up...not uncommon for our pitchers this season.

 

 

Without breaking down his numbers, he did relieve some. But he gave up 11 runs in 18 innings (seven earned). Decent, not great. Since by your logic he is so great, then either McKeon or Beinfest are blundering idiots for sending him down. If you think Olsen has proved something, terrific. Often a young pitcher will have a couple of decent outings because the league hasn't figured them out. Scott Olsen isn't the left-handed version of Felix Hernandez. Olsen has some potential, and he's now had an injured elbow. So if you think he is a risk free pitcher, more power to you.

 

 

Besides those games, he only had 1 relief appearance...a 1.1 IP 2 ER performance against Atlanta. You really have no clue.

[Marlin Nation]

Because someone has a different opinion, another thread goes down the drain? 03 you were one of those saying no way Delgado was being shopped. So basically when your opinion is proven wrong, there is no room for dialogue?

 

 

Hey newbie, I know you're trying to make a splash here but your act is getting a bit old...

 

Why not answer his question?

[Hugg]

http://www.forbes.com/2005/04/06/05mlbland.html

 

Look at the statistics how you wish.

 

But Forbes says the Marlins made 3M (in 2004) before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization.

 

 

I have trouble taking much stock in whatever those numbers are supposed to represent when the first line tells me the New York Yankees lost 30+ million.

 

Please.

 

That said, do I think the Marlins lose as much money as some may want to represent that they do? No. Do I think it's possible they make 3 million? Sure.

 

However, in his entire tenure here as the owner of this franchise, I've been given no reason to believe that Loria isn't doing everything that he can to win within the financial reason of the current organization. I truly believe if there were more money there, he'd spend it. There's no evidence, at least while he's owned the Marlins, that makes me think otherwise. There are some instances where maybe we traded a player because we didn't want to resign him, but I will argue that it was as much that we didn't feel they were worth the money the market said they should get as it was total overall payroll. You can talk about that with Alex Gonzalez right now. I love Bass, he's my favorite player on this team and I don't think he's worth what he's going to get and I wouldn't give it to him.

 

As for Delgado, I would prefer we didn't trade him. But I won't form a lynch mob about it, especially until I see what we might get for him should the situation come to be.

 

And I can certainly see where a season ticket holder would be upset should we do so, to each their own, such is their right. I don't really invest a whole lot of money into this organization, since I'm in Ohio and don't have tons of opportuinity to, so I can't compare that.

 

However, I'm more about the overall big picture than an individual, if you can bring me some legit pieces that I can see for him, then I will not complain.

 

As for the team looking drastically different next season...after the way they performed this year, it should.

[marlins161]

http://www.forbes.com/2005/04/06/05mlbland.html

 

Look at the statistics how you wish.

 

But Forbes says the Marlins made 3M (in 2004) before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization.

 

 

Yep, you really proved a point. You don't even know what any of these numbers mean. Your smoking gun info of proof says the Yankees are LOSING 37 mil and the Marlins are WAY up there with 3 mil. By your logic Tampa Bay is one of the richest teams in the league, with 27 mil in profits. Wow, why would Namoli sell off this cash cow? Thanks for this valuable piece of indisputable evidence. It is so clear how you absolutely proved your point. The Brewers are yet another high revenue team by your calculations. Red Sox are drowning in money. Great post. LOL

 

 

 

Olsen made 4 starts:

6/25 vs TB: 5.2 IP, 4 H, 2 R, 1 ER, 1 HR, 3 BB, 7 K

7/4 vs Mil: 5.2 IP, 6 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 0 HR, 3 BB, 8 K

7/9 vs Chi: 6.0 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 1 HR, 3 BB, 4 K

7/16 @ Phi: 1.2 IP, 5 H, 6 R, 3 ER, 2 HR, 1 BB, 1 K

 

So, where are you getting he was inconsistent from? He was really good in 3 of his 4 starts, in the 4th he went where Marlins pitchers go to die, Citizens Bank Park and got roughed up...not uncommon for our pitchers this season.

 

 

Without breaking down his numbers, he did relieve some. But he gave up 11 runs in 18 innings (seven earned). Decent, not great. Since by your logic he is so great, then either McKeon or Beinfest are blundering idiots for sending him down. If you think Olsen has proved something, terrific. Often a young pitcher will have a couple of decent outings because the league hasn't figured them out. Scott Olsen isn't the left-handed version of Felix Hernandez. Olsen has some potential, and he's now had an injured elbow. So if you think he is a risk free pitcher, more power to you.

 

 

Besides those games, he only had 1 relief appearance...a 1.1 IP 2 ER performance against Atlanta. You really have no clue.

 

I told you when I responded that I didn't have Olsen's numbers in front of me. It wouldn't have been too difficult to look up. As I noted, if Olsen was so lights out then either McKeon or Beinfest or both have no clue in evaluating talent because HE WAS DEMOTED after that dreadful performance in Philly. You think if the team felt that was just one bad outing, and it was easy to brush off, they wouldn't have done so? Instead they gave Olsen's spot to Valdez and they kept Vargas. You seem to have a keener eye for talent than the front office and coaches and manager.

 

 

Because someone has a different opinion, another thread goes down the drain? 03 you were one of those saying no way Delgado was being shopped. So basically when your opinion is proven wrong, there is no room for dialogue?

 

 

There's a difference between constructively carrying on a conversation and ridiculously and unnecessarily taking a contrary attitude to every statement made in response to your posts, and you, my irrational rookie, are doing the latter.

 

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, even one as misguided and unsubstantiated as yours, but under no circumstances are any of us required to agree with your chicken little theory because history with Jeffrey Loria tells us that the sky has been rumored to be falling for 5 years now, and it's yet to happen.

 

But thanks for letting us know, definitively, that it's happening this offseason. :thumbup

 

Misguided? Seems that link on attendance I posted PROVED 100 percent about the dreadful attendance here, where I was questioned for saying the team was last in the NL and third to last in ALL OF BASEBALL. None of you respond to that. Misguided? Loria has been here four years, this is his fifth. He made bold promises in Montreal, look where that franchise is now. Sure I give Loria credit for trying to make it work here. He has tried. The market hasn't supported him. Season tickets aren't up. And for argument sake, say they are. Well up how much? From 10,000 to 11,000? That's still a joke. When the Marlins were playing meaningful games in early Sept, the crowds were disappointing. By your claims that all is well, then why even look for a new stadium? Everything is hunkydory right here. This ownership group has a history of failure when it comes to the business side of the sport. They failed, business wise, in Montreal. They are losing money here. Forget your feelings for my posts, you think that if there was so much financial momentum around this team that the local politicans wouldn't seize on it and quickly build the Marlins a stadium because it is a win-win situation? In the end we will see who is right. I hope you guys are because I want nothing but success for the team. Being a blind loyalist doesn't make your opinions value. Facts are showing this franchise is very close to firesale. Even today's paper, and I know none of you believe the papers because they are all out to get the Marlins, Selig told reporters that the Marlins need a new stadium to make it work down here. You probably dismiss that as a lie since it was in the paper.

[prinmemito]

To those of you taking a shot at Moneyball's link to Forbes's estimates of the financial health of MLB teams, consider a few things. 1) You offer no alternative estimate whatsoever. 2) The Tampa Bay Devil Rays have been widely known to profit, especially because they get a ton in revenue sharing. 3) The estimate is BEFORE taxes, interest, amortization, and depreciation. This last tidbit is important because a team like the Yankees, who own their own stadium and quite a few other things, would probably get an increase in profits after counting amortization, etc. Basically, anything that the Yankees owned that increased in value or is expected to increase in value affects net profit. It's just a question of what kind of accounting you decide to use.

 

To be honest, I don't believe Loria is losing $20 million per season. He's probably making a slight profit. He can afford to keep the payroll at it's current level, but he wouldn't make any money.

[Fishfan79]

I feel like we are just auctioning off here. I really dont like this offseason. It feels the complete opposite of last years offseason.

 

Comments by Delgado's agent upset Marlins

November 10

Palm Beach Post: "Marlins officials are angry that Carlos Delgado's agent turned to the media to complain about the team's unwillingness to dismiss trade rumors about the first baseman."

Marlins shopping Delgado, giving Mets another shot at slugger

 

November 10

Newsday: "Carlos Delgado chose the Marlins over the Mets while a free agent in January, and now, with the Marlins needing to slash payroll, he is being shopped around the general managers' meetings, according to an industry official."

Several sluggers may be on market

 

November 10

New York Post (scroll down) (registration required): " The Reds will shop outfielders in exchange for starting pitching, according to one MLB executive. The exec added that he thought Florida's Carlos Delgado would be available... Though reportedly interested in Washington CF Brad Wilkerson, they haven't heard if he's available."

Konerko not the only choice

 

November 10

Chicago Sun-Times: "As the White Sox make their final offer to Paul Konerko while holding exclusive negotiating rights with the free-agent first baseman, they already have made plans for life without their most consistent offensive performer... Rumors circulating at the general managers' meetings have the Sox in the trade market for the Philadelphia Phillies' Jim Thome or the Florida Marlins' Carlos Delgado."

Beinfest still hoping to get Jones to sign

 

November 10

Miami Herald (registration required): "Marlins general manager Admin Beinfest spoke Wednesday with Alan Hendricks, the representative for free agent Todd Jones, and said he wasn't giving up on efforts to bring the closer back... One of the teams on the Marlins' dance card Wednesday was the Seattle Mariners, who already had expressed an interest in first baseman Carlos Delgado."

Beinfest, Jones' agent talking

 

November 10

Palm Beach Post: "Marlins General Manager Admin Beinfest said he spoke Wednesday with the agent for closer Todd Jones and that there was a chance the closer would return to Florida in 2006."

Marlins Trade Rumors

Comments by Delgado's agent upset Marlins

 

November 10

Palm Beach Post: "Marlins officials are angry that Carlos Delgado's agent turned to the media to complain about the team's unwillingness to dismiss trade rumors about the first baseman."

Marlins shopping Delgado, giving Mets another shot at slugger

 

November 10

Newsday: "Carlos Delgado chose the Marlins over the Mets while a free agent in January, and now, with the Marlins needing to slash payroll, he is being shopped around the general managers' meetings, according to an industry official."

Mets might reconsider Delgado

 

November 10

Newark Star-Ledger (registration required): "Unconvinced about Mike Jacobs' ability over the long haul, the Mets are looking elsewhere to fill their need at first base. And it's possible the team could revisit the one marquee player that eluded its grasp last winter -- Carlos Delgado."

Talk Is Cheap, Improving the Mets Won't Be

 

November 10

New York Times (registration required): "Although the Mets have also recently spoken with the Florida Marlins, those discussions have not centered on first baseman Carlos Delgado, who could be available as the Marlins try to shed payroll."

Dodgers Talk About Hitter

 

November 10

Riverside Press Enterprise (scroll down) (registration required): " The free-agent pool is thin this winter, so the Dodgers might have to trade for a big bat. Carlos Delgado or Troy Glaus could be available. In such a deal, they likely would have to part with a top prospect such as Chad Billingsley, Edwin Jackson or James Loney."

[prinmemito]

I don't like this one bit. :thumbdown

[Admin]

Marlins161, Olsen wasn't demoted because of that start in Philadelphia, most of the pitchers on our staff would be demoted because we got demoralized at Citizens Bank Park this season, he didn't want to work out of the pen, Vargas was willing to, that is why Olsen was demoted.

[marlins161]

To those of you taking a shot at Moneyball's link to Forbes's estimates of the financial health of MLB teams, consider a few things. 1) You offer no alternative estimate whatsoever. 2) The Tampa Bay Devil Rays have been widely known to profit, especially because they get a ton in revenue sharing. 3) The estimate is BEFORE taxes, interest, amortization, and depreciation. This last tidbit is important because a team like the Yankees, who own their own stadium and quite a few other things, would probably get an increase in profits after counting amortization, etc. Basically, anything that the Yankees owned that increased in value or is expected to increase in value affects net profit. It's just a question of what kind of accounting you decide to use.

 

To be honest, I don't believe Loria is losing $20 million per season. He's probably making a slight profit. He can afford to keep the payroll at it's current level, but he wouldn't make any money.

 

 

 

To be honest, I do believe Loria is losing 20 mil a season. I don't believe they "made" $3 mil two years ago, or whenever that Forbes report says. If you notice in that ranking system by Forbes, the Marlins ranked 25 or so in terms of worth of clubs. Low to the bottom in that end. Anyone believing this team is well off money wise is fooling themselves. See those quotes today by Selig saying the Marlins need a new stadium to make it work? I guess Selig is lying too. That will be the response by you blind followers who think the payroll is going great and that Loria can't figure out enough ways to spend creatively on players.

 

Marlins161, Olsen wasn't demoted because of that start in Philadelphia, most of the pitchers on our staff would be demoted because we got demoralized at Citizens Bank Park this season, he didn't want to work out of the pen, Vargas was willing to, that is why Olsen was demoted.

 

 

 

 

Are you a relative or friend or the agent of Olsen? You defend everything about him. You say Olsen agreed to go to the minors rather than relieve? Awesome. Turn down big league money to go to the minors. Funny but Vargas seemed to get a lot of starts for a guy who agreed to go to the pen. Again, Olsen was demoted because he wasn't showing much at that point. He was shelled by the Phillies and Vargas simply is better.

[Guest FishFanInPA]

I want Spike to tell me we're not sellers this offseason after all these articles....

[Guest FlummoxedLummox]

I want Spike to tell me we're not sellers this offseason after all these articles....

 

His name was, is, and always will be HotRodTodd. :plain

[Marlins2003]

Spike is essentially correct. Part of the decision to option Olsen back to Carolina was based on his inability, or desire not to, pitch out of the pen, that he wanted to be a starter. It was that decision that ultimately led to Vargas finding his way into the starting rotation.

 

If I remember correctly, the problem was Olsen took too long warming up out of the pen and he preferred to continue his career as a starter, I suppose fearful of being pigeon-holed as a reliever. Vargas on the otherhand was happy with any opportunity to pitch in the bigs and the rest, as they say, is history.

[Admin]

Also, even if a minor leaguer is called up, arent they guranteed MLB league minimum money even if they are demoted? I might be wrong. Just like marlins161 is wrong about Olsen not showing anything, except that he pitched really well until he got to Philadelphia.

[wanks1212]

To those of you taking a shot at Moneyball's link to Forbes's estimates of the financial health of MLB teams, consider a few things. 1) You offer no alternative estimate whatsoever. 2) The Tampa Bay Devil Rays have been widely known to profit, especially because they get a ton in revenue sharing. 3) The estimate is BEFORE taxes, interest, amortization, and depreciation. This last tidbit is important because a team like the Yankees, who own their own stadium and quite a few other things, would probably get an increase in profits after counting amortization, etc. Basically, anything that the Yankees owned that increased in value or is expected to increase in value affects net profit. It's just a question of what kind of accounting you decide to use.

 

To be honest, I don't believe Loria is losing $20 million per season. He's probably making a slight profit. He can afford to keep the payroll at it's current level, but he wouldn't make any money.

 

 

 

To be honest, I do believe Loria is losing 20 mil a season. I don't believe they "made" $3 mil two years ago, or whenever that Forbes report says. If you notice in that ranking system by Forbes, the Marlins ranked 25 or so in terms of worth of clubs. Low to the bottom in that end. Anyone believing this team is well off money wise is fooling themselves. See those quotes today by Selig saying the Marlins need a new stadium to make it work? I guess Selig is lying too. That will be the response by you blind followers who think the payroll is going great and that Loria can't figure out enough ways to spend creatively on players.

 

Meh, I highly doubt Loria is losing much money (let alone $20 million) on the Marlins. If you look at the Marlins franchise value over the period of time Loria has owned it, it has increased above the rate of inflation according to most sources, which means it has in fact become more profitable since he's owned the team (because franchise value is generally measured as the future expected profits of a sports franchise). That's the way most sports economists would examine the Marlins on a general basis (without having the availablility of their actual profit margins - not those solely in terms of ticket sales vs. player salaries).

 

Just because the Marlins are ranked low in terms of worth of clubs doesn't mean Loria is losing gobs of money. MLB has become much healthier financially in the past few years than it was before, as more teams are profitable now than ten years ago. I don't know if the Marlins are definitely profitable, but if I had to be I'd say Loria is making a small amount of money once everything is factored in. Of course, that doesn't guarantee he won't cut payroll, especially if season ticket sales drop.

 

Selig is always going to say the Marlins need a new stadium. Why? Because the Marlins would become (more) profitable with a new stadium than they are now. Part of Selig's job as commissioner is to act on behalf of the owners and MLB in general in ensuring the financial stability of individual teams and the league. Of course he's going to do whatever he can to help a team make more money, even if that means arguing for a new stadium when a team doesn't need one (which is not the Marlins' case, IMO - they do need a stadium with a roof) or interpreting numbers differently (i.e. only comparing player salaries vs ticket sales when talking about potential losses/profits) than is the norm.

 

And back to the original post in this thread, I'll throw in my two cents on Delgado. I'm not opposed to trading him, as long as the Marlins get a good package in return. Anything resembling the Orioles crap from the proposed Burnett deal and I'll be pissed.

[Guest Moneyball]

http://www.forbes.com/2005/04/06/05mlbland.html

 

Look at the statistics how you wish.

 

But Forbes says the Marlins made 3M (in 2004) before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization.

 

 

Yep, you really proved a point. You don't even know what any of these numbers mean. Your smoking gun info of proof says the Yankees are LOSING 37 mil and the Marlins are WAY up there with 3 mil. By your logic Tampa Bay is one of the richest teams in the league, with 27 mil in profits. Wow, why would Namoli sell off this cash cow? Thanks for this valuable piece of indisputable evidence. It is so clear how you absolutely proved your point. The Brewers are yet another high revenue team by your calculations. Red Sox are drowning in money. Great post. LOL

 

 

 

I never claimed it was a smoking gun you asshat. I just provided the damn link. I was posting what I saw. Read and comprehend.

 

As prinmemito said before it was no secret the DRays were one of the more profitable teams in the league. :thumbup

[marlins161]

I find it amusing that over the last week or so, people in here were all happy that the NY media was quoting Sloane as saying Delgado isn't going anywhere based on his September conversation in Houston with Loria. When Sloane made his comments to the NY media, people were all giddy saying Sloane put an end to the rumors. Now, these same people are critical of Sloane for wanting to know what's really going on. Seems here the media is only trustworthy when it writes the spin you want to read. If you see something you don't like, you then spin it to your point of view. Let's let the facts play out. Then decide.

[ultimopain]

Delgado is pretty much already gone.

 

The sooner some people here dig their heads outta the sand, the sooner people will come to accept it.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

[marlins161]

On Vargas vs. Olsen, Olsen was demoted because of performance. He got shelled by the Phillies. He threw terribly and that was the clincher that he needed to go. Players who are called up get paid MLB money, even if it is for a week or two or a day or two. This is fact. They get a prorated portion of the minimum, in Olsen's case. That was a portion of $316,000. So you are saying Olsen preferred to be demoted, and not collect MLB money, is really ridiculous. Facts are facts. The Marlins indeed liked Vargas better than Olsen, that is why he stayed. Vargas was called up on July 14 and Olsen was already in the rotation. Olsen didn't get the job done. You claim that Vargas was willing to relieve and that's why he stayed up. Well it didn't take long for Vargas to get into the rotation. If the Marlins felt Olsen was the better starter, he would have stayed. As it turned out, Olsen was frail and immediately had an elbow problem and didn't pitch the rest of the year. Hardly the No. 3 starter and future franchise player Spike feels he is. Look for the Marlins to package Olsen to help move a contract like Lowell.

 

 

 

http://www.forbes.com/2005/04/06/05mlbland.html

 

Look at the statistics how you wish.

 

But Forbes says the Marlins made 3M (in 2004) before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization.

 

 

Yep, you really proved a point. You don't even know what any of these numbers mean. Your smoking gun info of proof says the Yankees are LOSING 37 mil and the Marlins are WAY up there with 3 mil. By your logic Tampa Bay is one of the richest teams in the league, with 27 mil in profits. Wow, why would Namoli sell off this cash cow? Thanks for this valuable piece of indisputable evidence. It is so clear how you absolutely proved your point. The Brewers are yet another high revenue team by your calculations. Red Sox are drowning in money. Great post. LOL

 

 

 

 

The D Rays are profitable? HAHAHA. 13,000 fans a game and 24 mil in profits. Why would Namoli sell this cash cow? The Marlins claimed they lost 20 mil in 2004 and about 12 mil in their World Series year of 2003. You don't believe them when they talk. I bet they lost about 20 mil more this year. It is all adding up. Pudge was paid "special money" meaning it was money Loria took from other business interests that were not part of his operating budget. If he had this surplas you experts profess, then he wouldn't have to take it from somewhere else. Anyone with a half a brain and eye for business would see that. Go ahead and keep believing all is well.

 

I never claimed it was a smoking gun you asshat. I just provided the damn link. I was posting what I saw. Read and comprehend.

 

As prinmemito said before it was no secret the DRays were one of the more profitable teams in the league. :thumbup

[Marlins2003]

I realize newbies always think they can't be wrong but there were numerous published stories, quoting Jack and others, that Olsen couldn't be used ot of the pen.

 

They asked him to go to the pen to make room for Valdez and he declined, leaving the Marlins with the only option left to them, which was to option him to Carolina.

[marlins161]

I realize newbies always think they can't be wrong but there were numerous published stories, quoting Jack and others, that Olsen couldn't be used ot of the pen.

 

They asked him to go to the pen to make room for Valdez and he declined, leaving the Marlins with the only option left to them, which was to option him to Carolina.

 

 

If Olsen was so LIGHTS OUT as Spike claims, then why would one poor start in Philly cost him his spot in the rotation to Valdez. We're talking Izzy Valdez not Roger Clemens. You guys want to insist that Olsen is a stud, go ahead. You want to insist that Olsen said I want to go to the minors because I can't relieve, go ahead. As it turned out, Vargas immidately went into the rotation. ONCE AGAIN, because you guys seem to have a comprehnsion problem, why didn't Olsen reclaim a rotation spot over Vargas when Vargas immediately went into the rotation?

 

2003, aren't you the one who said NO WAY Delgado was even going to be shopped. That it was all made up by the media. Guess you were right on that too buddy

 

FYI, Olsen got crushed by the Phils on July 16. Vargas was in the rotation, starting July 18. Olsen in the meantime never pitched again after July 16. Somehow he got hurt. Did he punch a wall in Carolina when he was demoted?