Getting financially healthy by jettisoning overpaid, underacheiving players or letting free agents depart that command more than their worth, is absolutely the right thing to do.

 

Using the word "firesale" is inappropriate and wrong.

 

But then again why would we expect anything different from Carpozzi?

Getting financially healthy by jettisoning overpaid, underacheiving players or letting free agents depart that command more than their worth, is absolutely the right thing to do.

 

Using the word "firesale" is inappropriate and wrong.

 

But then again why would we expect anything different from Carpozzi?

 

 

Sure, but are Beckett, Delgado, Castillo, Pierre and LoDuca all underachievers that are overpaid? If this goes down the way it is being described, firesale would be an appropriate term. :blink:

From the poison pen of Joe Carpozzi...

 

..."If the Beckett trade is completed, there's a chance the Marlins will trade Blalock to another team. Blalock might not fit into Florida's long-term plans because he is owed $3 million in 2006, $4.75 million in 2007 and $5.95 million in 2008."

 

 

Gee Joe, you don't think it has anything to do with the fact he's exclusively a third baseman do you?

I am not doing another f***in firesale

 

 

Looks like it is time for you to officiailly start rooting for the Phillies not that lots of us didn't already think that.

Clearly the Lowell deal is the key mistake the FO is desperately trying to remedy. They tried to tie Lowell to AJ last summer to move him. They've tried to tie him to JP, Castillo, and now Beckett. It seems the more they shopped Lowell the more "possibilities" they discussed for moving other players.

 

As long as they get real value for anybody they trade, I can live with it. But if they do like they did in '98, and that is to jettison players just for the sake of getting rid of them, then I'll be disgusted. I don't like all these trade rumors one bit, as I don't believe the team needs a wholesale makeover.

 

To a large degree it looks like a game of brinkmanship....and the losers are going to end up being Loria and the Marlins fans in South Florida.

Although it is certainly dissappointing to have to see so many players being potential shipped off, I do have a sense of excitement to see what happens for us this offseason even if we dont ever receive a big name in return for our players. I'm sort of looking forward to starting over with a newer and younger team instead of trying to hold on to the players that we won with in '03. I might be the only one, but I have a feeling this rebuilding will be more exciting than the renovations we have had the past two years.

Does anyone think any of these players, besides Beckett and possibly Castillo, are wise investments?

 

Capozzi is wrong to invoke memories of 98. This isn't a fire sale. This is spring cleaning. We're cleaning out the junk.

 

Getting financially healthy by jettisoning overpaid, underacheiving players or letting free agents depart that command more than their worth, is absolutely the right thing to do.

 

Using the word "firesale" is inappropriate and wrong.

 

But then again why would we expect anything different from Carpozzi?

 

Or what he said.

Clearly the Lowell deal is the key mistake the FO is desperately trying to remedy. They tried to tie Lowell to AJ last summer to move him. They've tried to tie him to JP, Castillo, and now Beckett. It seems the more they shopped Lowell the more "possibilities" they discussed for moving other players.

 

As long as they get real value for anybody they trade, I can live with it. But if they do like they did in '98, and that is to jettison players just for the sake of getting rid of them, then I'll be disgusted. I don't like all these trade rumors one bit, as I don't believe the team needs a wholesale makeover.

 

To a large degree it looks like a game of brinkmanship....and the losers are going to end up being Loria and the Marlins fans in South Florida.

 

 

Usually PB, we find ourselves on the same side of the fence.

 

On this I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. First, "they" weren't here in 1998, it was Wayne Huizenga, he of bottom-less pit of money and heart as cold as ice who hours after winning a World Series would not even give the fans a chance to celebrate, choosing rather to pour cold water on everyone's spirits by gutting a profitable team before selling it, not Jeffrey Loria.

 

And as for who is the loser in all this, Loria is finally doing what he has to, having poured many tens of millions of his dollars into keeping this franchise afloat, who is finally thinking with his wallet instead of his heart, and I for one don't blame him in the slightest.

 

Chipper Jones just restructured his contract to accomodate the Braves' financial woes, I don't see a Mike Lowell or any other overpaid player offering to do the same. Lowell is going to take his $18 million from anyone who will sign his checks for the next two years, and on the same terms thank you very much, and if his career ends then, well, so be it.

 

I think in the longrun, what the Marlins are doing is 100% the right thing to do. It hurts, yes, but getting this team younger and cheaper had to come sooner or later, and frankly I'm glad it's happening now.

::sigh:: Its so hard to be a Marlins fan right now

Clearly the Lowell deal is the key mistake the FO is desperately trying to remedy. They tried to tie Lowell to AJ last summer to move him. They've tried to tie him to JP, Castillo, and now Beckett. It seems the more they shopped Lowell the more "possibilities" they discussed for moving other players.

 

As long as they get real value for anybody they trade, I can live with it. But if they do like they did in '98, and that is to jettison players just for the sake of getting rid of them, then I'll be disgusted. I don't like all these trade rumors one bit, as I don't believe the team needs a wholesale makeover.

 

To a large degree it looks like a game of brinkmanship....and the losers are going to end up being Loria and the Marlins fans in South Florida.

 

 

Usually PB, we find ourselves on the same side of the fence.

 

On this I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. First, "they" weren't here in 1998, it was Wayne Huizenga, he of bottom-less pit of money and heart as cold as ice who hours after winning a World Series would not even give the fans a chance to celebrate, choosing rather to pour cold water on everyone's spirits by gutting a profitable team before selling it, not Jeffrey Loria.

 

And as for who is the loser in all this, Loria is finally doing what he has to, having poured many tens of millions of his dollars into keeping this franchise afloat, who is finally thinking with his wallet instead of his heart, and I for one don't blame him in the slightest.

 

Chipper Jones just restructured his contract to accomodate the Braves' financial woes, I don't see a Mike Lowell or any other overpaid player offering to do the same. Lowell is going to take his $18 million from anyone who will sign his checks for the next two yaers, and on the same terms thank you very much, and if his career ends then, well, so be it.

 

I think in the longrun, what the Marlins are doing is 100% the right thing to do. It hurts, yes, but getting this team younger and cheaper had to come sooner or later, and frankly I'm glad it's happening now.

You make a good point regarding the differences between Huizenga in 1998 and Loria in 2005.

 

I can see the argument that the team is doing what it feels it must. However, most fans will not be able to look at it as logically as you and many of the die-hard fans on this board. We'll just have to wait and see how far this goes, but if the team trades Delgado, Beckett, LoDuca, Castillo and Pierre, it is going to be seen as a firesale by most fans in South Florida. Most fans could easily understand getting rid of "dead wood" and that would definitely include Lowell, and in the eyes of some Pierre But I doubt the fan base will be as understanding if the rest of the aforementioned players depart as well.

This is just sick. Can't say I didn't see the writing on the wall though. The red flag for me was Loria's comments about the lack of sponsorship he lost due to the cancellation of the golf tourney because of Wilma.

I remember thinking, he's just priming us for what's to come.

 

 

:tissue

It's not that. We just feel that's the last thing we need right now, especially if we want to get bigger fan support and whatnot. *sigh*

 

Next thing you know, they're gonna trade Billy the Marlin to the Cubs.

Getting financially healthy by jettisoning overpaid, underacheiving players or letting free agents depart that command more than their worth, is absolutely the right thing to do.

 

Using the word "firesale" is inappropriate and wrong.

 

But then again why would we expect anything different from Carpozzi?

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I agree with this. Someone else (I think RFerry) mentioned that outside of Beckett and Castilo, it's not like Lowell, Pierre, or Duca are smart investments anyway, which is another true statement.

 

We'll see what happens, but I don't buy this as a fire sale so long as Miggy and Dontrelle are still around.

 

Yeah, I agree with this. Someone else (I think RFerry) mentioned that outside of Beckett and Castilo, it's not like Lowell, Pierre, or Duca are smart investments anyway, which is another true statement.

 

We'll see what happens, but I don't buy this as a fire sale so long as Miggy and Dontrelle are still around.

 

There is more from ESPN RUmor section:

 

:confused

That could just as easily be the decision of Willis' agent. Maybe they're asking for too much or don't want to sign a new contract yet. This offseason is expected to be crazy - rising salaries of all players. Willis and his agent could profit immensely from waiting it out.

 

People are far too quick to jump to conclusions around here. I understand it's a stressful time. All of us are clueless of the club's action in some way. But be patient and try to think through all the reasons why this happening. Don't let your brain get focused on the 1998 firesale or the pain it might have caused you. This is not 1998. The Marlins faces similar but very different problems. Loria is a different man from Huizenga. The team has presently composed is slightly different. This is entirely different situation. Until you are prepared to accept that, you can not see or think clearly about the issues surrounding Marlins baseball at present.

I'll be f***ing pissed if we trade Beckett or Castillo. Trade the others if we have to, but we better not trade those two! :mad :banghead

I believe it is possible to field a team with a payroll of approximately $40,000,000 in 2006 that is both competitive and allows for more than $12 million in new starting and relief pitcher FA signings, plus make payments owed to Pudge and Leiter, but in order to do so you have to live without certain sacred cows (MB.com favorites).

 

There is a scenario inwhich all that happens and Pierre and LoDuca, Conine, Cabrera and Willis all stay.

Regardless of what you think of the merits of keeping Castillo and Gonzo, I think that if we do indeed lose Lowell and Delgado(as is becoming increasingly evident)....if on top of that we lose our starting second baseman and shortstop....and thus have a whole new infield...the whole resrtucturing will then be perceived as a firesale. In my opinion, rightfully so. We need to keep Castillo and sign Gonzo.

Here's a quote from Beckett from the Miami Herald:

 

If they deal Beckett and don't acquire a pitcher with major-league experience, the Marlins could be left with a rotation headed by Willis and a group of relatively unseasoned starters such as Jason Vargas, Josh Johnson and Scott Olsen.

 

Beckett said he's not so sure he wants to return to a gutted club that has no chance to contend.

 

''It's tragic. It really is,'' Beckett said.

 

``I don't want to go backward. Some of me hopes it's not true.''

 

If Beckett feels that way (and rightfully so) what makes you think that Cabrera and Willis are impervious to feeling slighted as well? For everyone who thinks this is simply a way of getting everything in order to sign Willis and Cabrera to long-term deals, even in the unlikely event they're offered them, what makes you think they'll agree to sign on for a long term deal with the Major League equivalent of the Titanic?

Even if those guys don't sign long term contracts with the Marlins, we'll have them until 2009. That's enough time for this franchise to turn itself around, especially if we're smart in these trades and pick up top notch prospects. By 2007 or 2008 this team can contend again... I bet they'll be willing to re-sign then.

 

Also, I think Willis is especially loyal. Shoot, Miggy took less money to sign with the Marlins. I think those two want to be the cornerstones of this franchise for the next decade or so. They'll be the Marlins' version of Jeff Bagwell and Craig Biggio.

If we absolutely have to trade everyone, which I'm still having trouble grasping, don't trade Luiy. Please.

Aguila

Wilson

Hermida

Cabrera

Conine

Willingham

Stokes

Andino

 

Willis

Vargas

Olsen

Johnson

Kensing/Tankersley/Allison

 

FA

FA

FA

FA

Resop

Mota

Messenger

 

And Lenny Harris on the bench :lol

Clearly the Lowell deal is the key mistake the FO is desperately trying to remedy. They tried to tie Lowell to AJ last summer to move him. They've tried to tie him to JP, Castillo, and now Beckett. It seems the more they shopped Lowell the more "possibilities" they discussed for moving other players.

 

As long as they get real value for anybody they trade, I can live with it. But if they do like they did in '98, and that is to jettison players just for the sake of getting rid of them, then I'll be disgusted. I don't like all these trade rumors one bit, as I don't believe the team needs a wholesale makeover.

 

To a large degree it looks like a game of brinkmanship....and the losers are going to end up being Loria and the Marlins fans in South Florida.

 

 

Usually PB, we find ourselves on the same side of the fence.

 

On this I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. First, "they" weren't here in 1998, it was Wayne Huizenga, he of bottom-less pit of money and heart as cold as ice who hours after winning a World Series would not even give the fans a chance to celebrate, choosing rather to pour cold water on everyone's spirits by gutting a profitable team before selling it, not Jeffrey Loria.

 

And as for who is the loser in all this, Loria is finally doing what he has to, having poured many tens of millions of his dollars into keeping this franchise afloat, who is finally thinking with his wallet instead of his heart, and I for one don't blame him in the slightest.

 

Chipper Jones just restructured his contract to accomodate the Braves' financial woes, I don't see a Mike Lowell or any other overpaid player offering to do the same. Lowell is going to take his $18 million from anyone who will sign his checks for the next two years, and on the same terms thank you very much, and if his career ends then, well, so be it.

 

I think in the longrun, what the Marlins are doing is 100% the right thing to do. It hurts, yes, but getting this team younger and cheaper had to come sooner or later, and frankly I'm glad it's happening now.

The Braves never mentioned trading Chipper and floated him around in trade talks constantly neither.

 

They probably went up to him and asked him if he would be open to the possiblity of restructuring his contract. Who's to say that ever happened with Mikey?

I don't think that was ever a possibility with Lowell. Remember his crankiness whether the final three years of his contract would be guaranteed? After months of sniping at teammates and giving the juiciest of quotes (publically, and suspected of privately) in 2004, it was with a $1M bonus added on. That sound like a person interested in restructuring his deal?

I know. It?s all wrong. By rights we shouldn?t even be here. But we are. It?s like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. And sometimes you didn?t want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the Marlins go back to the way it was when such a firesale had happened?

 

But in the end, it?s only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer.

 

Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn?t. They kept going. Because they were holding on to something.