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Fans are to blame for this mess


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Although David Samson is an easy target to hate with his poor Public Relation skills and the atmosphere he brings around him, and Mr. Loria is an easy guy to hate since he and the rest of the Front Office might have this team moved within 3 years, they aren't to blame. What do you want the ownership to do?? Continue to forget about the millions and millions of dollars that they lose every year and decide to ignore it, and put up another decent sized payroll?? Why should they? No one would care if they did.

 

I'm willing to forget about the Marlins winning the 1997 World Series because to me, the 1998 firesale made pretty much every positive thing from winning a World Series attendance become negative. I believe that everything that would have increased attendance after the World Series was pretty much canceled out and more negative things came from 1998 than postive things in 1997. But the Marlins did win another World Series in 2003. Yes they lost Pudge and Derek Lee, but the 2004 team was still pretty good and should have easily increased attendace. But it hardly did. Even when the Marlins were in a playoff push, attendance didn't show it. Then there is 2005. Arguably the best roster in Marlins history. With the addition of Delgado, Cabrera growing into his own, and Willis starting to gain recognition, yoiu would have thought attendance would have sky-rocketed but it really did not. Attendance did jump up about 6,000 per game from 2003-2005 which is nice, but not good enough.

 

Although Florida Marlin fans haven't had the most ideal events happen to them (Firesales, Stadium Issues, and Payroll Issues) they still have to show support. I know it is easy to hate the City of Miami and the State for not agreeing to put forward some money for the stadium, but can you blame them??? Why spend all that money for a stadium for a team that no one cares about. The government in most cases will always do what is the most popular thing to do and building a stadium for the Marlins who have very little support just isn't what they will do. I truly believe if the Marlins were averaging around 32,000 per game, which is the average for MLB attendance per game, we would never have the issues. It may suck, and it may feel horrible, but you can't blame the state and you can't blame the front office.

 

It may be hard to do, but the only area to blame is fans, or lack there of. Sure most of us here at MB.com are not to blame since most of us go to games regularly, have season tickets, and support the team more than most, but its the people of Miami and the non-diehard fans who are the ones to blame. Its hot in most part of the country during summertime when baseball is played, traffic sucks in most big cities, and although in rains more than normal here, the fact of the matter is we have had 3 good teams with a W.S. win, something almost impossible to do, and attendance has hardly grown.

 

Enough with the posters who beg for Loria to sell the team, if anything you should be thanking him for not doing this 3 years ago. We should thank him for bringing us a World Series Champ. He has done all that he can and you can't hate him for that. If you want someone to hate, hate the people of South Florida who wouldn't show up to Dolphins stadium. Those are the people that are to blame.

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Unfortunetly some think they're guaranteed a major league franchise, well, actually, everything - a tax-free state of the art ballpark staffed with great service, cheap ticket prices, readily available TV and radio feeds and a charismatic generous owner who won't say 'no'.

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The fans deserve some blame and when i say fans I dont include me or anyone else on this board because we are all diehards , who have sat through the Dark Ages of the first firesale , the heat , the rain delays , etc etc but more people do need to sack up and go to the games BUT a great deal of blame does rest with Loria whether you care to admit it or not he simply doesnt have the money to be a legit mlb owner , and your point about the payroll isnt accurate . No he did not gut the team like he is doing now in 04 and 05 but even this year our highest payroll we arent even close to being a top payroll team , our payroll is consistantly among the lower 1/3 in basball. Additionally ignoring the fact that Loria didnt have the money to bridge a mere 30 million dollar gap for a new stadium and his contribution was no upfront money , his mistake was allowing people who are not professionals to try to get him a public funded stadium. Even now with mlb revenue sharing , a cut of mlb merchandise and national tv contracts , and new local tv contract that will show almost all of the marlins games on tv , radio contract , his he really making a market correction or completely alienating the growing Marlins fan base. Attendance and tv ratings have grown the last three years and Loria is making every effort to kill the fan base which will make it easier to move . He will easily make 60 million in profits this year why not keep something of a competitive product on the field if he really wants to make an effort to stay?? He did it in Montreal and is doing it here , the fans have some blame but Loria deserves most of the blame for the way he ran his organization.

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It's stupid to hate people for not going to baseball games. They didn't want to go; I still don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with people complaining about firesales if they never spent a dollar to support the team. But as long as the people never went keep their mouths shut, I got no beef with them. I wasn't even angry about any of this until yesterday. Management went overboard when they traded Castillo. Now I'm mad and I want my money back. I was very understanding until yesterday, but now I blame management.

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Unfortunetly some think they're guaranteed a major league franchise, well, actually, everything - a tax-free state of the art ballpark staffed with great service, cheap ticket prices, readily available TV and radio feeds and a charismatic generous owner who won't say 'no'.

 

Your funny on the one hand you say talk about Loria being able to run his team which is a private business as he wants and has no accountability to the fans , the city , or the state , than in the next breathe you claim Loria is entitled to a public funded stadium. I guess by your rationale the state government should not only give wal mart a tax break but also build some wal mart super centers on the public's dime and wal mart owes us nothing

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That's because I live in the real world and recognize how things work. There are a lot of injustices in the world, and while I do my part to fight against them, I atleast recognize that they are there. You don't. I can't claim to have found a way around the rules set forth by the controllers of the game, but I'm certainly not going to blame one of its players. Once you stop living in your dream world, you'd find blame can be spread all around - including your precious local officials.

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As long as people keep blaming the fans, MLB will never prosper in South Florida.

 

We have 3 very healthy NFL, NBA, and NHL franchises....they don't blame the fans. The Marlins ownerships have always made empty promises, half-assed threats, mistreated their closest diehard fans, and made being a Marlins fan hell.

 

No one wants to be a fan abused by their own team.

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Although Florida Marlin fans haven't had the most ideal events happen to them (Firesales, Stadium Issues, and Payroll Issues) they still have to show support. I know it is easy to hate the City of Miami and the State for not agreeing to put forward some money for the stadium, but can you blame them??? Why spend all that money for a stadium for a team that no one cares about. The government in most cases will always do what is the most popular thing to do and building a stadium for the Marlins who have very little support just isn't what they will do.

 

So who are all those people following the Marlins on TV and radio? Do they watch/listen because they don't care?

 

The truth is if we had the exact same attendance we had the last 2 years but didn't have the worst lease in sports, we wouldn't have this problem. The Marlins would be making money the same way every other team does.

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Guest ShaqandWade323

Your face is to blame for this. [/fifthgradeinsult]

 

So many intelligent responses so I had to break the streak.

 

Now I'm going to end this with a random and underused emoticon. :skippy

 

he's so happy.

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We have 3 very healthy NFL, NBA, and NHL franchises....they don't blame the fans. The Marlins ownerships have always made empty promises, half-assed threats, mistreated their closest diehard fans, and made being a Marlins fan hell.

 

 

The Panthers sincerely thank you for referring to them as a healthy franchise.

 

They might be in better shape than the Marlins, but I wouldn't call them healthy, even for an NHL franchise.

 

/off topic

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We have 3 very healthy NFL, NBA, and NHL franchises....they don't blame the fans. The Marlins ownerships have always made empty promises, half-assed threats, mistreated their closest diehard fans, and made being a Marlins fan hell.

 

 

The Panthers sincerely thank you for referring to them as a healthy franchise.

 

They might be in better shape than the Marlins, but I wouldn't call them healthy, even for an NHL franchise.

 

/off topic

 

Not to turn this into a hockey debate, but given the new salary cap in the league and improved revenue sharing, there's no such thing as an unhealthy franchise in the NHL, excluding the teams that play in old stadiums in bad markets.

 

Maybe not competitive, but they are healthy.

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We have 3 very healthy NFL, NBA, and NHL franchises....they don't blame the fans. The Marlins ownerships have always made empty promises, half-assed threats, mistreated their closest diehard fans, and made being a Marlins fan hell.

 

 

The Panthers sincerely thank you for referring to them as a healthy franchise.

 

They might be in better shape than the Marlins, but I wouldn't call them healthy, even for an NHL franchise.

 

/off topic

 

Not to turn this into a hockey debate, but given the new salary cap in the league and improved revenue sharing, there's no such thing as an unhealthy franchise in the NHL, excluding the teams that play in old stadiums in bad markets.

 

Maybe not competitive, but they are healthy.

 

Meh, the revenue sharing helps, of course. The reason I said that was a Forbes report (if you click on the timeline for NHL team values) that I saw which had the Panthers losing the most value over the last few years (at -26%) along with an operating income of over -$13 mil. I have no doubt the new agreement improved that, but it doesn't mean they're a healthy franchise.

 

Anyway, it's off topic, so I'll leave it at that, let you respond, and put it to rest for this topic.

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We have 3 very healthy NFL, NBA, and NHL franchises....they don't blame the fans. The Marlins ownerships have always made empty promises, half-assed threats, mistreated their closest diehard fans, and made being a Marlins fan hell.

 

 

The Panthers sincerely thank you for referring to them as a healthy franchise.

 

They might be in better shape than the Marlins, but I wouldn't call them healthy, even for an NHL franchise.

 

/off topic

 

Not to turn this into a hockey debate, but given the new salary cap in the league and improved revenue sharing, there's no such thing as an unhealthy franchise in the NHL, excluding the teams that play in old stadiums in bad markets.

 

Maybe not competitive, but they are healthy.

 

Meh, the revenue sharing helps, of course. The reason I said that was a Forbes report (if you click on the timeline for NHL team values) that I saw which had the Panthers losing the most value over the last few years (at -26%) along with an operating income of over -$13 mil. I have no doubt the new agreement improved that, but it doesn't mean they're a healthy franchise.

 

Anyway, it's off topic, so I'll leave it at that, let you respond, and put it to rest for this topic.

 

FWIW, they're not the least valuable franchise (Carolina), or working with the most operating losses(St. Louis).

 

I had no clue it was that bad. Perhaps the ownership change alleviated some of the crunch as far as the operation goes, and surely the new CBA will help out a lot.

 

Thanks for that though, interesting to know.

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We have 3 very healthy NFL, NBA, and NHL franchises....they don't blame the fans. The Marlins ownerships have always made empty promises, half-assed threats, mistreated their closest diehard fans, and made being a Marlins fan hell.

 

 

The Panthers sincerely thank you for referring to them as a healthy franchise.

 

They might be in better shape than the Marlins, but I wouldn't call them healthy, even for an NHL franchise.

 

/off topic

 

Not to turn this into a hockey debate, but given the new salary cap in the league and improved revenue sharing, there's no such thing as an unhealthy franchise in the NHL, excluding the teams that play in old stadiums in bad markets.

 

Maybe not competitive, but they are healthy.

 

Meh, the revenue sharing helps, of course. The reason I said that was a Forbes report (if you click on the timeline for NHL team values) that I saw which had the Panthers losing the most value over the last few years (at -26%) along with an operating income of over -$13 mil. I have no doubt the new agreement improved that, but it doesn't mean they're a healthy franchise.

 

Anyway, it's off topic, so I'll leave it at that, let you respond, and put it to rest for this topic.

 

FWIW, they're not the least valuable franchise (Carolina), or working with the most operating losses(St. Louis).

 

I had no clue it was that bad. Perhaps the ownership change alleviated some of the crunch as far as the operation goes, and surely the new CBA will help out a lot.

 

Thanks for that though, interesting to know.

meanwhile attendence is up 16% from 2003-2004...

 

back to the marlins

 

the sh*t that bothers me is. if loria can't afford to put a competative product on the field, then sell the god damn f***ing team. don't alienate the team, its name, players, and fans. this is what doesn't 'make sense to me. maybe loria is losing 20 million dollars a year. he spent 66 million dollars last year. he's going to spend less than half that this year, and STILL lose money. If he sells the team i would think the value of the team would have to be at least equal to what he paid at 150 mil. i jus tdon't understasnd he'd rather destroy another franchise than sell the team. and bud is sitting in his office in new york watching him do it

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No fans?

 

TV viewership was way up. The purchase of team apparel was way up.

 

Considering that ticket prices increased an average of more than 30% in 2005 (by far the biggest percent jump in all of baseball), I'm shocked there was any increase in attendance at all. Revenue from gate receipts was way up.

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excuses excuses excuses....Prices were up but they were still amongst the lowest in MLB. How can you be surpised there was an increase in attendance when they brought in CARLOS DELGADO and had the hype in the pre season of being the best roster the Marlins have ever had!!!! Dolphins Stadium may not be the most comfortable place to watch a game, but the Marlins put together a great roster. These are the kind of excuses I'm talking about that people are saying that is the reason for why the Marlins are in this horribe situation.

 

Also, its not about the fact that Loria can't afford the team.... Even if he had double the money he has now, he would still be doing the same thing because no owner would want to lose money consistently with putting great teams on the field and absoultely no support.

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The team may save 45 million this year as opposed to last year. Then subtract from that the fact that theres going to be about 2000 fans at every game and why cant the team put in more for the new stadium? Over the next 4 years will the team have enough. See idotn have all the figures on how much the team has made and lost the last few years, but it would be an interesting analysis to make

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