I called American Express, which is the credit card I used to renew my season tickets a couple of months ago when they sent out the playoff package. I explained the situation to the rep on the other end and she encouraged me to dispute the charges. She says that it's American Express' policy to do everything possible to make sure that its card members are satisfied with purchases from their merchants.

 

She gave me an instant credit for the funds I have paid to date and said they will enter the dispute process. Even if I lose the dispute which will take several weeks to mediate, I have my money back for the time being (with it being the Christmas season, this isn't a bad thing). I also make the Marlins have to answer to somebody with more power than I have. If enough people complain to AMEX they could conceivably pull the Marlins merchant status.

 

It's been my experience that AMEX goes to bat for it's customers a lot more than VISA/MC. That's why I always use the American Express card for big ticket purchases and online purchases.

I don't even want my money back, I just don't want to pay an increase in prices for less of a product. I sent Samson an email.

Good job man!!

 

I hope you win the battle...

Everybody who goes to the town meeting, let's pass out some sort of flyer for our own independent group meeting to dicuss options.

 

I will produce flyers if everybody likes. We have to discuss what we can do as we have sizeable investments in the marlins (myself over $4600 next year) and we have a right to decide, whether Loria and evil midget like it or not, to help decide the destiny of the Marlins or GIVE US OUR MONEY BACK!!!!!

 

The team is GUTTED! we can't do anything about that but collectively we can at least try and make our case for what WE THE FANS actually want to happen.

 

Please. Everybody. We have to be visible right now or we will lose the Marlins.

Everybody who goes to the town meeting, let's pass out some sort of flyer for our own independent group meeting to dicuss options.

 

I will produce flyers if everybody likes. We have to discuss what we can do as we have sizeable investments in the marlins (myself over $4600 next year) and we have a right to decide, whether Loria and evil midget like it or not, to help decide the destiny of the Marlins or GIVE US OUR MONEY BACK!!!!!

 

The team is GUTTED! we can't do anything about that but collectively we can at least try and make our case for what WE THE FANS actually want to happen.

 

Please. Everybody. We have to be visible right now or we will lose the Marlins.

 

I think those that are going to the meeting should prepare responses to Samson's spin on all these issues. Go back and listen to the interview on 790, he'll be saying the same thing in the meeting.

Don't you want the team to stay in Florida?

Please. Everybody. We have to be visible right now or we will lose the Marlins.

 

Be careful not to be seen as a comforter to Arriola, Diaz and their band of criminals. Else you'll only jettison Loria and HIS Marlins away from your town. Or worse, invoke the wrath of someone much more evil than you believe Loria is and much power than Huizenga or any two bit politician.

Its really simple.

 

Get a stadium built and the Marlins stay.

 

I dont see whats so difficult about this.

 

Instead of using all your 'political muscle' on attacking Samson, why not actually do what is needed for this franchise and use that 'political muscle' to get that stadium issue passed.

 

Geez, talk about misplaced action.

Everybody who goes to the town meeting, let's pass out some sort of flyer for our own independent group meeting to dicuss options.

 

I will produce flyers if everybody likes. We have to discuss what we can do as we have sizeable investments in the marlins (myself over $4600 next year) and we have a right to decide, whether Loria and evil midget like it or not, to help decide the destiny of the Marlins or GIVE US OUR MONEY BACK!!!!!

 

The team is GUTTED! we can't do anything about that but collectively we can at least try and make our case for what WE THE FANS actually want to happen.

 

Please. Everybody. We have to be visible right now or we will lose the Marlins.

 

 

Well, if you really, really want to lose the Marlins, then go out and try to sue the Marlins to get your money back.

 

I really have no patience for you guys whining about your season tickets. Last year, I bought season tickets to see the Washington Nationals, knowing full well that they'd be a brutal baseball team (they actually played a lot better than expected). I bought the season tickets so: 1) I could save a spot in line for the new stadium (if it ever gets built -- sound familiar?) and 2) because I love baseball. I bought the season tickets knowing full well that the Nats would get crushed in most of their games (of course, as I am first and foremost a Marlins fan, I was more than happy to watch the Marlins beat the hell out of the Nats).

 

For those of you complaining you were given the bait and switch, well, I really have no pity for you at all. You should have known that when the baseball stadium plan failed that the Marlins would go into full salary dump mode. You should have believed them when they said -- over and over again -- that they were losing money hand over fist and could not afford the current salaries if they didn't have a new stadium deal in place.

 

So, if you really, really want Loria to throw his hands up and give up on South Florida once and for all, sue him to get your money back. Or, be the better person, realize that it's not really Loria and Samson's fault that not enough people go to the games and that the South Florida government bent them over but good on the stadium deal. Grit your teeth, go to the games and support the team. Or else you'll be complicit in their eventual departure from South Florida.

 

By the way, if I moved down to South Florida, I would sign up to buy season tickets to watch the 2006 Marlins. Maybe that makes me a sop or an idiot; I don't know. I just know that I want to do what I can to encourage them to stay in Miami.

 

Putting up flyers saying "Save the Marlins," while a nice sentiment, is an absolute waste of time. So is protesting. Money talks, and the only way to show the greasy politicians and the Marlins FO that this is a viable market and the Marlins deserve a new stadium is to show your support.

You have no claim trying to get your money back, because they never promised you that they would be good.

 

So what are teams supposed to do when the sign more players and exceed expectations? All of a sudden they would send you another invoice and say pay x amount of money more or we are taking away your season tickets and giving them to the highest bidder.

You have no claim trying to get your money back, because they never promised you that they would be good.

 

So what are teams supposed to do when the sign more players and exceed expectations? All of a sudden they would send you another invoice and say pay x amount of money more or we are taking away your season tickets and giving them to the highest bidder.

.

 

ya it really does go both ways.

I think it is an individuals choice and right to make up their minds. I will not blast someone for wanting their money back after the bait and switch. I think they have absolutely the right in this case. What the marlins did was lower then soap scum in my eyes and terrible to us season ticket holders.

 

That said I am keeping mine anyways because I love baseball. I will go anyways even if I didnt have season tickets.

This was my letter to Samson... My problem is that they raised ticket prices... I'll gladly pay for tickets, but I want to pay the same rate, not an increase...

Despite the response of the Florida Marlins, season ticket holders do have a legitimate argument in contesting the raise in ticket prices in lieu of the organization?s actions in the past three weeks. When someone purchases any good or service, they possess a ?reasonable expectation? of what they will be receiving in return. When you order a ham sandwich you expect there to be, at the very least, two slices of bread and a slice of ham. Marlins' fans also had a "reasonable expectation" of the product that they were paying for, not to mention paying an increase for.

 

It was "reasonable" to expect that many of the same players would remain on the team as happens on all major league teams from one year to another. It was reasonable to expect that the organization would continue to display the commitment to excellence that they had demonstrated, and constantly reiterated, in the past. It was reasonable to expect that they would not change the product in such a completely radical, unexpected and unprecedented manner, (under this ownership, at least). It is reasonable to expect that seven of the eight starters, and nearly 20 of the 25 best and most popular players, would not be put on other team?s payrolls in exchange for twenty year-old players who have no place on a major league baseball diamond at this point of their careers. This was a ?reasonable expectation? of putting that money down in August.

 

If you put down a down payment on a house that you have toured, you reasonably expect the house to look the same when you move in. Let's say you tour the house, put down some money for it, and then schedule a date to move in. But when you move in, the kitchen has been demolished, the toilets and sinks are missing from both bathrooms, the garage is now a garden, the pool is now a skating ramp, the master bedroom was split into five smaller rooms and the walk-in closet is now a home to seven kitties. There was a "reasonable expectation" that the house would be similar to the house you toured.

 

The Marlins, notably Mr. Samson, say season ticket holders were only entitled to "reasonably expect," "Exciting and talented Major League Baseball players, quality and affordable family entertainment, and an exclusive, attractive package of rewards and benefits that season ticket holders have come to enjoy."

 

But that was only a part, a fraction, an element, of what people "reasonably expected" they were paying for. That's like the real estate agent saying they gave you what you promised: a building with a front door, a roof, four walls and a floor, plus the bonus seven kitties. You gave us two slices of bread, but you traded away the ham. Mr. Samson, I want my ham. Actually, I?m willing to just eat the bread, but don?t charge me extra for a ham sandwich without the ham.

 

When they put their money down, season ticket holders reasonably held the expectation to receive more than what they are now being given in return. The Marlins are acting with a lack of professionalism, class and civility. They are treating a huge percentage of their remaining incoming revenue like unwashed second-class citizens. Do not mistake our love of a sport and loyalty of your team for stupidity and blind subservience.

I think it is an individuals choice and right to make up their minds. I will not blast someone for wanting their money back after the bait and switch. I think they have absolutely the right in this case. What the marlins did was lower then soap scum in my eyes and terrible to us season ticket holders.

 

That said I am keeping mine anyways because I love baseball. I will go anyways even if I didnt have season tickets.

 

 

You have to realize it goes both ways. Yes maybe you were expecting to see Delgado and everyone else, but if you are crying foul, just realize that if they were to add players then they could charge you more without notice. Is that what you want?

I know you have every right to want your money back if that's your opinion and I'm sure you're frustrated as we all are. But I guarantee you the Green Bay Packers could trade Brett Favre, Bubba Franks, and Ahman Green in the offseason and they will still have a 50 year waiting list to get tickets.

 

We need to support the team, a real sports community is what is holding this franchise back.

I think it is an individuals choice and right to make up their minds. I will not blast someone for wanting their money back after the bait and switch. I think they have absolutely the right in this case. What the marlins did was lower then soap scum in my eyes and terrible to us season ticket holders.

 

That said I am keeping mine anyways because I love baseball. I will go anyways even if I didnt have season tickets.

 

 

What the Marlins did? You mean, like sign Delgado when it didn't make any sense as a business decision? You mean like increase payroll in '03 to try and win another WS when it didn't make any sense as a business decision?

 

What the Marlins did was show a committment to winning for three years straight even when both the South Florida commissioners and the South Florida fans showed no committment back. If anything, jump on their back for spending $60 M in payroll last year even when their operating budget only justified $40 M.

Its really simple.

 

Get a stadium built and the Marlins stay.

 

I dont see whats so difficult about this.

 

Instead of using all your 'political muscle' on attacking Samson, why not actually do what is needed for this franchise and use that 'political muscle' to get that stadium issue passed.

 

Geez, talk about misplaced action.

 

 

Good post Das.

 

Using "political muscle" to attack Samson, whether you like him or not, only empowers those who would see the Marlins fail in South Florida for their own selfish purposes.

 

There's an oldsaying, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Hate Samson, consider a rodent-like individual if you wish, but understand he's more your ally than the powers to be in the city of Miami.

I know you have every right to want your money back if that's your opinion and I'm sure you're frustrated as we all are. But I guarantee you the Green Bay Packers could trade Brett Favre, Bubba Franks, and Ahman Green in the offseason and they will still have a 50 year waiting list to get tickets.

 

We need to support the team, a real sports community is what is holding this franchise back.

 

 

:thumbup

This was my letter to Samson... My problem is that they raised ticket prices... I'll gladly pay for tickets, but I want to pay the same rate, not an increase...

Despite the response of the Florida Marlins, season ticket holders do have a legitimate argument in contesting the raise in ticket prices in lieu of the organization?s actions in the past three weeks. When someone purchases any good or service, they possess a ?reasonable expectation? of what they will be receiving in return. When you order a ham sandwich you expect there to be, at the very least, two slices of bread and a slice of ham. Marlins' fans also had a "reasonable expectation" of the product that they were paying for, not to mention paying an increase for.

 

It was "reasonable" to expect that many of the same players would remain on the team as happens on all major league teams from one year to another. It was reasonable to expect that the organization would continue to display the commitment to excellence that they had demonstrated, and constantly reiterated, in the past. It was reasonable to expect that they would not change the product in such a completely radical, unexpected and unprecedented manner, (under this ownership, at least). It is reasonable to expect that seven of the eight starters, and nearly 20 of the 25 best and most popular players, would not be put on other team?s payrolls in exchange for twenty year-old players who have no place on a major league baseball diamond at this point of their careers. This was a ?reasonable expectation? of putting that money down in August.

 

If you put down a down payment on a house that you have toured, you reasonably expect the house to look the same when you move in. Let's say you tour the house, put down some money for it, and then schedule a date to move in. But when you move in, the kitchen has been demolished, the toilets and sinks are missing from both bathrooms, the garage is now a garden, the pool is now a skating ramp, the master bedroom was split into five smaller rooms and the walk-in closet is now a home to seven kitties. There was a "reasonable expectation" that the house would be similar to the house you toured.

 

The Marlins, notably Mr. Samson, say season ticket holders were only entitled to "reasonably expect," "Exciting and talented Major League Baseball players, quality and affordable family entertainment, and an exclusive, attractive package of rewards and benefits that season ticket holders have come to enjoy."

 

But that was only a part, a fraction, an element, of what people "reasonably expected" they were paying for. That's like the real estate agent saying they gave you what you promised: a building with a front door, a roof, four walls and a floor, plus the bonus seven kitties. You gave us two slices of bread, but you traded away the ham. Mr. Samson, I want my ham. Actually, I?m willing to just eat the bread, but don?t charge me extra for a ham sandwich without the ham.

 

When they put their money down, season ticket holders reasonably held the expectation to receive more than what they are now being given in return. The Marlins are acting with a lack of professionalism, class and civility. They are treating a huge percentage of their remaining incoming revenue like unwashed second-class citizens. Do not mistake our love of a sport and loyalty of your team for stupidity and blind subservience.

 

 

Well let me start off by saying that it is unfair that you are comparing a service (season tickets) to a tangible good (buying a house). You cannot make that comparison. Lets change things up and say that someone was selling you tickets to see the movie King Kong. They said it was going to have a monkey and it would destroy buildings, but when you get their its the 1937 verision not 2005. What claim would you have?

 

You paid to see a baseball game, which pits the florida marlins vs whoever the away team is. They never said in the contract that you are going to see Carlos Delgado, Josh Beckett, ect... Everything samson said "Exciting and talented Major League Baseball players, quality and affordable family entertainment, and an exclusive, attractive package of rewards and benefits that season ticket holders have come to enjoy" is what you are getting.

 

What you fail to realize is that you can not cry foul on this, because you wouldnt want it to be the other way would you? Would you want the marlins to charge you double your amount as soon as they went on a 8 game win streak because they have exceeded expectations?

Well let me start off by saying that it is unfair that you are comparing a service (season tickets) to a tangible good (buying a house). You cannot make that comparison. Lets change things up and say that someone was selling you tickets to see the movie King Kong. They said it was going to have a monkey and it would destroy buildings, but when you get their its the 1937 verision not 2005. What claim would you have?

 

You paid to see a baseball game, which pits the florida marlins vs whoever the away team is. They never said in the contract that you are going to see Carlos Delgado, Josh Beckett, ect... Everything samson said "Exciting and talented Major League Baseball players, quality and affordable family entertainment, and an exclusive, attractive package of rewards and benefits that season ticket holders have come to enjoy" is what you are getting.

 

What you fail to realize is that you can not cry foul on this, because you wouldnt want it to be the other way would you? Would you want the marlins to charge you double your amount as soon as they went on a 8 game win streak because they have exceeded expectations?

 

 

Just so you don't get blindsided, JetsMania, some folks here are arguing that the fact that Delgado and Beckett were featured on the advertisements for season ticket renewals amounts to false advertising.

 

Just a friendly post, tho'. I agree with what you've said.

Well let me start off by saying that it is unfair that you are comparing a service (season tickets) to a tangible good (buying a house). You cannot make that comparison. Lets change things up and say that someone was selling you tickets to see the movie King Kong. They said it was going to have a monkey and it would destroy buildings, but when you get their its the 1937 verision not 2005. What claim would you have?

 

You paid to see a baseball game, which pits the florida marlins vs whoever the away team is. They never said in the contract that you are going to see Carlos Delgado, Josh Beckett, ect... Everything samson said "Exciting and talented Major League Baseball players, quality and affordable family entertainment, and an exclusive, attractive package of rewards and benefits that season ticket holders have come to enjoy" is what you are getting.

 

What you fail to realize is that you can not cry foul on this, because you wouldnt want it to be the other way would you? Would you want the marlins to charge you double your amount as soon as they went on a 8 game win streak because they have exceeded expectations?

 

The product I paid for in advance is not what they will be delivering... Before the season, you put down your money, and you take your chances at what happens, I understand... but this was radical, unexpected and unprecedented (under this ownership).

Well let me start off by saying that it is unfair that you are comparing a service (season tickets) to a tangible good (buying a house). You cannot make that comparison. Lets change things up and say that someone was selling you tickets to see the movie King Kong. They said it was going to have a monkey and it would destroy buildings, but when you get their its the 1937 verision not 2005. What claim would you have?

 

You paid to see a baseball game, which pits the florida marlins vs whoever the away team is. They never said in the contract that you are going to see Carlos Delgado, Josh Beckett, ect... Everything samson said "Exciting and talented Major League Baseball players, quality and affordable family entertainment, and an exclusive, attractive package of rewards and benefits that season ticket holders have come to enjoy" is what you are getting.

 

What you fail to realize is that you can not cry foul on this, because you wouldnt want it to be the other way would you? Would you want the marlins to charge you double your amount as soon as they went on a 8 game win streak because they have exceeded expectations?

 

 

Just so you don't get blindsided, JetsMania, some folks here are arguing that the fact that Delgado and Beckett were featured on the advertisements for season ticket renewals amounts to false advertising.

 

Just a friendly post, tho'. I agree with what you've said.

 

 

Thanks. But then again the marlins could make the claim that they were using footage from the 2005 season to advertise for the 2006 season because there is not footage of many of the players.

 

 

Well let me start off by saying that it is unfair that you are comparing a service (season tickets) to a tangible good (buying a house). You cannot make that comparison. Lets change things up and say that someone was selling you tickets to see the movie King Kong. They said it was going to have a monkey and it would destroy buildings, but when you get their its the 1937 verision not 2005. What claim would you have?

 

You paid to see a baseball game, which pits the florida marlins vs whoever the away team is. They never said in the contract that you are going to see Carlos Delgado, Josh Beckett, ect... Everything samson said "Exciting and talented Major League Baseball players, quality and affordable family entertainment, and an exclusive, attractive package of rewards and benefits that season ticket holders have come to enjoy" is what you are getting.

 

What you fail to realize is that you can not cry foul on this, because you wouldnt want it to be the other way would you? Would you want the marlins to charge you double your amount as soon as they went on a 8 game win streak because they have exceeded expectations?

 

The product I paid for in advance is not what they will be delivering... Before the season, you put down your money, and you take your chances at what happens, I understand... but this was radical, unexpected and unprecedented (under this ownership).

 

 

Ya but you cant say this is a radical thing that deserves exception, because then the marlins will turn around and say look we made the playoffs, everyone pay $1000 before we even sell you playoff tickets because its a radical and unexpected occurance

Haven't we learned over the years that the players in promotional items are not promises they'll be around? Wasn't it Brad Penny poster night the day after he got traded? It wasn't like his dismissal was a surprise, much of the season the team talked about only having enough room on the payroll for one of Pavano or Penny.

Ya but you cant say this is a radical thing that deserves exception, because then the marlins will turn around and say look we made the playoffs, everyone pay $1000 before we even sell you playoff tickets because its a radical and unexpected occurance

 

this was not a radical occurence on the field, while playing baseball... this was a radical situation in the management of the actual product, before any baseball is played.

 

Just don't charge me more for a lesser product, okay?

Ya but you cant say this is a radical thing that deserves exception, because then the marlins will turn around and say look we made the playoffs, everyone pay $1000 before we even sell you playoff tickets because its a radical and unexpected occurance

 

this was not a radical occurence on the field, while playing baseball... this was a radical situation in the management of the actual product, before any baseball is played.

 

Ok so the marlins should have charged you more when they traded and got dontrelle willis? No one knew he would be as good as he is, so in that case they should charge you more? It cant be a one way street

 

 

Listen, if I had shelled out 1,200 or whatever it cost for season tickets, I would not be very happy right now. But you have to realize that you are just buying tickets to see the florida marlins regardless of who they have or how good or bad they do.