US Automakers

[Das Texan]

Interesting question here.

 

Why are they falling behind or have falled behind their Japanese counterparts?

 

No articles to start this discussion just a question.

 

Let's see where this can take us.

[Fishfan79]

Because of past transgressions with their cars and how they built them their percieved value of their cars are terrible. So because of that if you purchase one it will not hold close to the value of an american car.

 

For instance I just purchased a new Honda accord 2006 coupe

 

List price on the car is 21,000 for the car

list price upon a pontiac G6 is 21,000 for the same car.

 

Now in five years the Accord will be worth 12,000 accord to blue book.

In Five years from now the G6 will be worth 4,000 according to blue book.

 

 

The parts are cheaper but honda doesnt sell their cars to the fleets so the value of the cars are out there. Also the percieved awards of the past overshadow this. Now add to the fact of that alot of the US cars really arent that nice looking (GM specially needs work but is getting better again). And the US companies went heavy into SUV's and were making a killing there till the gas shot through the roof. All of it together really has killed the US car makers lately and I expect if these trends continue in 20 years from now there might not be a GM anymore. Scary to say when 20 years ago GM was almost named a monopoly.

[prinmemito]

They're not selling as well for two reasons, IMO. First, American cars tend to use up more gas (because they're bigger on average). Second, the Japanese produce higher quality cars. They break down a lot less often. Why do they produce higher quality cars? I don't have the answer to that. I've read somewhere that the big American companies are just very inefficient compared to the Japanese. Maybe that's it. Who knows.

[Buckeye]

They're less able to/willing to change.

 

Their business philosophy, their automobile's looks and switching over to hybrids/looking for a new energy source to fuel these cars.

[Hotcorner]

They fell way behind in the 70s when Japan beat them to the market with fuel-efficient cars. After that it's been a game of catch-up. They've been behind in virtually every aspect; safety, fuel economy, design, resale value... now they're way behind on hybrids as well.

 

For the most part the (U.S) big 3 have narrowed the gap on some of these aspects (safety for example), but old perceptions are difficult to change. If most people want a car that holds its value they go buy Honda or Toyota.

 

To add to that, people who want to "buy American" don't even necessarily look for a Ford or GM car anymore, they can find a Nissan or Hyundai built at a plant right here in the states & feel just as good about buying it.

[OldSand]

It's got to be for durability reasons. Japanese cars last longer (or are generally believed to last longer).

[Flying_Mollusk]

Im not an expert, but my personal experience has lead me to believe Japanese cars are just way better. My dad, an immigrant himself, refused to by anything but American cars out loyalty to the US. They broke down all the time and pretty much sucked. I now own a Camry with 120k miles on it and I love my car. Hasnt broken down once(knock on wood) or even given me any remote mechanical problems(had trouble with AC and autowindows but who cares). It is also amazingly fuel effecient and I love that. Because Im an individual consumer who sees Japanese cars as superior, I imagine this has an aggragate affect on the consumer populace in general. Also, this expereince is isolated to used cars so I cant be sure if that affects the new car aspect.

 

I just dont think US cars put the time and money into the operation and relied on loyalty.

 

Also another view: Is it possible, and I dont know what the case is in Japan, that because the US makers have massive healthcare costs for their employees, they can't spend as much in the other areas or reduce the cost of their cars? I know a lot of Japanese cars are made here so maybe the point is moot.

[Cambridge Marlin]

Simply the Japanese and for that matter most of the asian car market provide better cars at the same price. Britain had a similar problem with motorbikes, the japanese manufacturers provided better reliability and cost and, well, there isnt a british motorbike market anymore.

[Guest Fritz]

The quality in American cars just isn't there. Go sit inside of a $25,000 Chevrolet Impala and then go sit inside a $25,000 Honda Accord. The difference in interior materials, fit and finish, and the overall feel is just so incredibly lagging in American cars. I think it's because for many years American manufacturers assumed their cars would sell out of the patriotic factor.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure unions are against the law in Japan, and we all know the UAW runs the American auto assembly system and they're lazy and more or less careless so they don't give a crap about the quality of their cars as long as they get their vacation, annual raise, etc.

 

I'm not really one to bitch about hybrids at this point since the increased cost and the lack of value in return really isn't there. Aside from the $2000 tax benefit, it takes a long time for the money saved from gas to catch up to the money saved on buying a conventional car. I still have doubts about the viability of hybrids anyway, it's just a stopgap and adds way too much complexity and weight for something that doesn't really generate that much in the way of savings. America would be a lot better off adopting the European diesel fuel and having most cars on the road be diesel. They're efficient as crap and they're not as disgusting as the diesels of old.

[orisha]

what?

 

if there is one thing that american cars are best about is the confot and luxury of interiors. also they drive much better than any other car.

 

it's also been my experience that american V6 cars, mainly GM, above a 2.8 are also the longest lasting ones. the problem is, people want to go smaller to save gas.

[Das Texan]

I think the major issues have been touched upon already.

 

I have recently purchased a new vehicle. I chose a Toyota Corolla. Why? Because by and large they are better vehicles as has been mentioned already.

 

I had a Ford Ranger pickup truck. Its a good truck, but in the end, it doesnt compete with the overall quality of a foreign made vehicle. I mean I could already sense that soon enough things would start going wrong. My power windows and locks had already failed and the replacement motor in the windows was barely passable.

 

 

I think the major isses have been touched upon. The Japanese automakers have been more committed to technological advancement than US manufacters. One major reason they buy up many patents to make vehicles more efficent. Its cheaper for them in the long run to buy the technology and then sit on it then implement it in their vehicles.

 

The American manufacters hedged their bets on the SUV. The horrors of the SUV we wont even go into right now (They are still the most unsafe vehicles on the road)

 

Japanese companies have been at the top of the technological advancements in things such as safety and more fuel efficent technologies for one. For many years the Americans had a huge advantage in the truck business. But they really have not done all that much in terms of making the technology better, unless you are talking about making engines more powerful, producing more horsepower all the while eating more gasoline.

 

They have come a long, long way in Japan when it comes to trucks. Now they actually can compete with American companies and surpass them in many ways.

 

When it comes to buying American, many are realizing that you can buy from a foreign based company and still buy American. Hell many American auto companies build the vehicles outside the USA. Its more like buy American and support the big companies or buy Japanese and in many ways support American workers.

 

The fact about the unions is also very important...couple that with the health costs that are included in the cost.

 

So to sum...the American companies have rested on their laurels and assumed loyalty. The Japanese companies work to be innovative and take market share.

 

Japan is winning.

[Lefty]

Foreign cars are just more durable and run longer, and with Internet, the average Joe can finally find that out for himself.

 

It doesn't help that any American car that I've had or my parents have had sucks balls (with the exception of my Monte Carlo, which has been 'ok' for the past couple of years)

[Flying_Mollusk]

If Japanese cars are made here, then I guess the union aspect is negated. But if made elsewhere, its probably pretty relevant.

[Guest Fritz]

what?

 

if there is one thing that american cars are best about is the confot and luxury of interiors. also they drive much better than any other car.

 

it's also been my experience that american V6 cars, mainly GM, above a 2.8 are also the longest lasting ones. the problem is, people want to go smaller to save gas.

 

You're so wrong. Go sit in a Cadillac, then go sit in a Lexus. The Lexus is lightyears better. It's not even comparable.

[Das Texan]

If Japanese cars are made here, then I guess the union aspect is negated. But if made elsewhere, its probably pretty relevant.

 

 

 

 

i dont think...and dont quote me on this yet...that the workers in say toyota are unionized...i mean i can easily find out i'm sure, you know since a toyota plant is opening in san antonio in 2k7.

 

 

 

 

what?

 

if there is one thing that american cars are best about is the confot and luxury of interiors. also they drive much better than any other car.

 

it's also been my experience that american V6 cars, mainly GM, above a 2.8 are also the longest lasting ones. the problem is, people want to go smaller to save gas.

 

You're so wrong. Go sit in a Cadillac, then go sit in a Lexus. The Lexus is lightyears better. It's not even comparable.

 

a japanese 4 cylinder is comparable to a us 6 cylinder. hell i would argue that they might have more real 'power'

[Dodge]

I think it's that a lot of people percieve that Japanese cars are better than American cars in the durability and value respects.

 

 

Personally, I'd take a German car over any other.

[Das Texan]

I think it's that a lot of people percieve that Japanese cars are better than American cars in the durability and value respects.

 

 

Personally, I'd take a German car over any other.

 

 

i have never driven a german car....

 

if i had more money i would have seriously looked at the volkswagon passant(?) that thing just looks cool.

 

hopefully in a couple fo years when i get something again they will still be uber cool.

[Dodge]

Unfortunately being six and a half feet tall, a Jetta would be too small for me, but I'd love to have one. I'm stuck with big American cars or trucks.

[Das Texan]

i'm about 6 3 and a corolla is fine for me in terms of head and leg room...

 

just sayin

[Dodge]

I got three inches on you and it's all in the legs. My Buick is barely enough in size. I've tried other cars and am very uncomfortable driving them.

 

I'm worried that all the hybrids are going to be too small for me.

[Das Texan]

I got three inches on you and it's all in the legs. My Buick is barely enough in size. I've tried other cars and am very uncomfortable driving them.

 

I'm worried that all the hybrids are going to be too small for me.

 

 

yay! leg length.

 

i was afraid myself at first that i wouldnt have enough leg room...thankfully i did.

[Guest Fritz]

I got three inches on you and it's all in the legs. My Buick is barely enough in size. I've tried other cars and am very uncomfortable driving them.

 

I'm worried that all the hybrids are going to be too small for me.

 

You don't think you could fit in a Honda Accord or Lexus RX400h?

[Dodge]

If by fit you mean squeezing myself in and having my knees on the dash, sure.

[FreshFish]

I think is all about quality, reliability, and constant improvement.

 

Quality was a disaster in pre-World War II Japan. William Deming (US American) went to Japan after WWII, and implemented a culture of quality and constant improvement of products. The highest and most prestigious award for corporate achievement in Japan. is called the 'Deming's Award".

 

 

"Deming offered fourteen key principles for management for transforming business effectiveness. In summary:

 

1. Create constancy of purpose.

2. Take the lead in adopting the new philosophy.

3. Cease dependence on inspection to achieve quality.

4. End the practice of awarding business on the basis of cheapest costs.

5. Improve constantly.

6. Institute modern on the job training.

7. Institute supervision to develop inspired leaders.

8. Drive out fear and instill learning.

9. Break down barriers between departments.

10. Eliminate slogans, exhortations, and targets.

11. Eliminate management by numbers, and management by objective. Substitute leadership.

12. Remove barriers to pride in workmanship.

13. Institute education and self-improvement.

14. Put everybody to work to accomplish the transformation.

 

After World War II, Deming was involved in early planning for the 1951 Japanese Census. His expertise, combined with his involvement in Japanese society, led to his receiving an invitation by the Japanese Union of Scientists and Engineers (JUSE).

 

The JUSE members had studied Shewhart's techniques, and as part of Japan's reconstruction efforts they sought an expert to teach statistical control. In 1950, Deming gave the first of a dozen or so lectures on SQC. Unlike his previous lectures, he aimed this message at Japan's chief executives: improving quality will reduce expenses while increasing productivity and market share.

 

The Japanese manufacturers applied his techniques widely, and experienced new international demand for Japanese products.

 

In 1960, Deming became the first American to receive the Second Order of the Sacred Treasures from Prime Minister Nobusuke Kishi. An accompanying citation stated that the people of Japan attributed the rebirth and success of their industry to his work.

 

 

c/o wikipedia

"

 

 

I find this topic fascinating

[Cambridge Marlin]

You got to love the build quality of Volkswagen, (or if you want to be cheaper and get the same build quality chasis, engine, interior get a SEAT as Volkswagen owns them) their cars have that satisfying clunk when you shut the door. I drove a Lupo, have a look on the web for it, most of you will find it hillarious, it does 60+ MPG and the diesel does somewhere 80+, stupidly efficient. Then again we pay approx ?4.40 a gallon for fuel so say $7.50 or something like that, it suddenly becomes a much better idea.