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Red Sox showing interest in Wily Mo Pena


Junior

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I don't particularly like this trade for either team.

 

The Reds should never have traded Pena: he's a young and a great raw talent that they can build around. They got rid of Casey, which I thought was a signal that Pena was better than Casey in their eyes. I understand they need pitching, but Arroyo is not going to change anything. He's a solid middle of the rotation guy, and the Reds aren't going anywhere anyway, so I think they should either wait and try and develop a front of the rotation guy or sign one.

 

As for the Red Sox, I don't think Pena is worth much to them right now. He will struggle with strikeouts, inconsistent at-bats, and again complain that he is not an everyday starter. He is not an OBP guy the way Epstein likes and is a raw hitter in general that will struggle against veteran pitchers on the Yanks and Jays and the refined, Leo-Mazzone Orioles pitchers. They can't develop him much because of Manny in left, Ortiz at DH, and for now Nixon in Right. Pena was adamant about not playing first. I think that Pena will be better Nixon in a couple years but not now. As a big market team, they can afford to pick up a more established hitter during the year or in the offseason in a salary dump trade or signing.

 

Also, I think Arroyo has much more value to the Red Sox now than trade value. Yes the Red Sox have seven starters before the trade (Schilling, Beckett, Wakefield, Clement, Wells, Arroyo, and Papelbon), but relying upon 39 year old Schilling, 39 year old Wakefield, and 42 year old Wells to each make 30+ starts is dangerous. Schilling for all everyone knows may be finished as an effective starter. He was hurt most of last year and largely ineffective when he did pitch. Though Wakefield puts less stress on his arm as a knuckleballer, eventually he will decline and 39 is very old. Wells is 42, still overweight, and still has back problems. He cannot be relied upon for 30+ starts. Papelbon is highly touted but he is still a rookie and like all others will have growing pains in his first full year. The Red Sox don't want to and shouldn't have to rely on him down the stretch in the league's best division. Also, Arroyo may be able to stablize a bullpen that has problems.

 

Good starting pitching is what is going to get the Red Sox into the playoffs this year, not hitting. I think exchanging Lowell, Gonzalez, and Loretta for Mueller, Renteria, and Walker will cost the Red Sox a fair amount of runs to the point that they can't count on their offense to score 6 runs or more every game. Come playoff time, I don't think that this trade will hurt the Red Sox much because they will only use 4 starters, but it will hurt in the regular season. I think the Yanks will struggle when their starting pitchers gets hurt/fails and that is where the Sox need to make up games. In my opinion, this puts a question mark on the rotation.

 

Perhaps they think that Pena is the next Ortiz. And perhaps they think that Papelbon and possibly Lester are major league, playoff contending ready this year. But I feel like Red Sox need not develop hitters at this point, and that Arroyo will be a nice, cheap back of the rotation guy when Schilling, Wells, and Wakefield retire. (Beckett, Papelbon, Lester, Clement, and Arroyo seems like a stacked rotation to me).

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As for the Red Sox, I don't think Pena is worth much to them right now. He will struggle with strikeouts, inconsistent at-bats, and again complain that he is not an everyday starter. He is not an OBP guy the way Epstein likes and is a raw hitter in general that will struggle against veteran pitchers on the Yanks and Jays and the refined, Leo-Mazzone Orioles pitchers. They can't develop him much because of Manny in left, Ortiz at DH, and for now Nixon in Right. Pena was adamant about not playing first. I think that Pena will be better Nixon in a couple years but not now. As a big market team, they can afford to pick up a more established hitter during the year or in the offseason in a salary dump trade or signing.

The Red Sox need a corner OFer.

 

The Red Sox need a OFer who can hit against leftys.

 

Nixon is a FA after this season and most likely gone unless he takes a pay cut.

 

Pena is 24 and cheap and has HUGE upside.

 

I can't wait to see what Papa Jack can do with this guy.

Also, I think Arroyo has much more value to the Red Sox now than trade value. Yes the Red Sox have seven starters before the trade (Schilling, Beckett, Wakefield, Clement, Wells, Arroyo, and Papelbon), but relying upon 39 year old Schilling, 39 year old Wakefield, and 42 year old Wells to each make 30+ starts is dangerous. Schilling for all everyone knows may be finished as an effective starter. He was hurt most of last year and largely ineffective when he did pitch. Though Wakefield puts less stress on his arm as a knuckleballer, eventually he will decline and 39 is very old. Wells is 42, still overweight, and still has back problems. He cannot be relied upon for 30+ starts. Papelbon is highly touted but he is still a rookie and like all others will have growing pains in his first full year. The Red Sox don't want to and shouldn't have to rely on him down the stretch in the league's best division. Also, Arroyo may be able to stablize a bullpen that has problems.

From '04 to '05 Arroyo showed little improvement from what was expected and all his numbers got worse. I'm willing to bet Arroyo's trade value will never be higher then it is now. (His K rate is going down faster then Jenna Jameson)

 

Wells has been fat and had back problems his whole year and he has started at least 30 games 9 of the last 10 years and been over, at, or very close to 200+ IP in 8 of those 10.

 

Schilling lost alot of weight and has been very, very good in ST and is pitching like he did in 2004 and is working on a new pitch.

 

Paplebon did everything that was asked of him and more last season and was probably our best reliever in the ALDS against the White Sox.

 

Don't sleep on the ability of Lenny DiNardo to be a pretty good spot starter either which I think is why this trade was made. The FO is confident in him to be the 7th guy.

 

Jon Lester is waiting in the wings for 2007 as well.

Good starting pitching is what is going to get the Red Sox into the playoffs this year, not hitting. I think exchanging Lowell, Gonzalez, and Loretta for Mueller, Renteria, and Walker will cost the Red Sox a fair amount of runs to the point that they can't count on their offense to score 6 runs or more every game. Come playoff time, I don't think that this trade will hurt the Red Sox much because they will only use 4 starters, but it will hurt in the regular season. I think the Yanks will struggle when their starting pitchers gets hurt/fails and that is where the Sox need to make up games. In my opinion, this puts a question mark on the rotation.

Walker? You mean Todd Walker who hasn't played with the Red Sox since 2003? Loretta is definitely an upgrade over the Bellhorn/Graffanino combination of last season.

 

Dont kid yourself that Renteria's offense will be a big hole to fill, it isn't as if Edgar was putting up big numbers last season. AGon's glove will make up for the slightly less offense then Rent had and he will make up for it for shoring up that hole that we had there defensively last season due to his 30 errors.

 

Perhaps they think that Pena is the next Ortiz. And perhaps they think that Papelbon and possibly Lester are major league, playoff contending ready this year. But I feel like Red Sox need not develop hitters at this point, and that Arroyo will be a nice, cheap back of the rotation guy when Schilling, Wells, and Wakefield retire. (Beckett, Papelbon, Lester, Clement, and Arroyo seems like a stacked rotation to me).

 

I think you are seriously overvaluing Arroyo. He had nearly a 5 ERA at home and it was like pulling teeth sometimes watching him against leftys. You bring up the Yankees, which is something you should think about more....I struggle to think of much positive coming out of Arroyo going around the Yankee lineup 3-4 times against Matsui, Giambi, and Damon.

 

I also think you are undervaluing a move to shore up a position of need this season, a pretty good injury replacement this year, and a replacement starter in RF after this year on the cheap. We have made some tremendous cost effective moves this year.

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I want to hear from all those Red Sox fans who bitched and moaned about Johnny Damon leaving the Sox for the Yanks for money and being greedy and whatever other insults they throw his way because you have a guy like Arroyo who gives the Sox the "home team discount" to stay in Boston and he's rewarded for his loyalty by getting traded.

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Am I seeing double??

 

Yeah really I had no idea he was that ripped until I saw pictures of him arriving in ST this morning. Apparently he put on a show in BP today.

 

This quote is from just a few days ago before a ST game with the Yankees.

'''Wily Mo was taking batting practice, and everybody came out to watch -- Ken Griffey Jr., everybody,' a scout who was there said yesterday. 'The balls he hit were still rising as they cleared that big scoreboard in center field in Legends Field. He has as big a power as anybody in the game.'"

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Am I seeing double??

 

Yeah really I had no idea he was that ripped until I saw pictures of him arriving in ST this morning. Apparently he put on a show in BP today.

 

This quote is from just a few days ago before a ST game with the Yankees.

'''Wily Mo was taking batting practice, and everybody came out to watch -- Ken Griffey Jr., everybody,' a scout who was there said yesterday. 'The balls he hit were still rising as they cleared that big scoreboard in center field in Legends Field. He has as big a power as anybody in the game.'"

 

They don't throw curveballs in BP.

 

Ok I will stop hating.

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Keep spinning it how you want.

 

All I know is that this year he will almost only be hitting against lefty's where last year he had a .881 OPS against lefty's. Andruw Jones and Mike Sweeney had a .877. Manny had .885. He's 24.

 

Don't underestimate him growing under Ron Jackson and getting a positive influence from fellow Domincans Ortiz and Ramirez.

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Keep spinning it how you want.

 

All I know is that this year he will almost only be hitting against lefty's where last year he had a .881 OPS against lefty's. Andruw Jones and Mike Sweeney had a .877. Manny had .885. He's 24.

 

Don't underestimate him growing under Ron Jackson and getting a positive influence from fellow Domincans Ortiz and Ramirez.

 

If you can play him ONLY against lefties then he will be good. However him striking out will get really old really fast.

 

He could be anywhere from the next Sosa, to the next noboby. Like I said it was a good deal for both teams.

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why is this deal so much better for the Sox? ... The Reds needed a starter and had a surplus of OF's ... yeah they probably got rid of one that could have put up monster numbers but the upside of the other OF's is still higher (count injuries and and whatever the hell you want) plus some of their salaries are bloated (not like it would have mattered to the sox)

 

I doubt Willy Mo is gonna put up MONSTER numbers, the guy can hit plenty of Jacks but I dont think he would drive many runs in or have a high avg.

 

Arroyo is still a good pitcher he was just surrounded by bigger and more known names in his team but the guy is solid and reliable, something the reds could really use

 

I think the sox got the better end of the deal for the value and the depth they had in their pitching staff but I dont think the Reds were taken to the cleaners here

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  • 3 weeks later...

Why did the Red Sox trade for Pena again?

 

He only has 3 at bats so far this season.

 

Wow you are dense.

 

He's 24.

 

He hits well against leftys. Trot does not.

 

Trot is a FA next year and may not be back. Pena will be the replacement.

 

He will be a great pinch hitter, bench player for us this year as is now evident with Crisp going down as he will start in centerfield for a bit.

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Why did the Red Sox trade for Pena again?

 

He only has 3 at bats so far this season.

 

Wow you are dense.

 

He's 24.

 

He hits well against leftys. Trot does not.

 

Trot is a FA next year and may not be back. Pena will be the replacement.

 

He will be a great pinch hitter, bench player for us this year as is now evident with Crisp going down as he will start in centerfield for a bit.

I'm not dense.

 

Nothing will change with Pena until he gets consistent at bats. He hasn't done well his entire career because he has never got consistent at bats. The only way he will get better is to get at bats, which I guess won't happen in Boston.

 

Good I am glad you traded us Arroyo for a "great pinch hitter".

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Wow, you are so bored right now you had to bump this to trash talk.

 

We had no place for Arroyo.

 

We needed a 4th OF. We got one of the best in the majors.

 

We are building a team for the future. Pena fits in those plans.

 

He is 24.

 

It is 6 games into the season.

 

Stop self fellating yourself about Arroyo long enough to realize he has had only one start and not even Johan Santana could be that successful in your park. When he does do bad though, I won't bump topics to talk trash to a toolish juvenille.

 

Enjoy 5th place.

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Wow, you are so bored right now you had to bump this to trash talk.

 

We had no place for Arroyo.

 

We needed a 4th OF. We got one of the best in the majors.

 

We are building a team for the future. Pena fits in those plans.

 

He is 24.

 

It is 6 games into the season.

 

Stop self fellating yourself about Arroyo long enough to realize he has had only one start and not even Johan Santana could be that successful in your park. When he does do bad though, I won't bump topics to talk trash to a toolish juvenille.

 

Enjoy 5th place.

 

He is 24, but it isn't like he has been in the league for 2 years.

 

Fine we won't argue, enjoy your 4th outfielder.

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