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Marlins Notes: rotation, bullpen


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from today's Sentinel:

Marlins fringe veterans may exit early if not kept

 

By Juan C. Rodriguez

South Florida Sun-Sentinel

Posted March 22 2006

 

JUPITER ? The suspense of whether or not they made the team will end a little sooner for a handful of Marlins.

 

Right-handers Matt Herges and Kerry Ligtenberg have clauses in their non-guaranteed contracts that allow them to request their release if not added to the 25-man roster by next Wednesday. Outfielders Mike Kinkade and Matt Ce- picky's minor league deals contain the same provision.

 

Last season, catcher Mike DiFelice exercised that option. Signed as a minor league free agent, DiFelice requested and was granted his release because the Marlins were not prepared to add him to the roster by the specified date.

 

Herges and Ligtenberg said they, too, would seek opportunities elsewhere if they are not added to the big-league roster.

 

"For me, I need the opportunity to get people out and get reestablished after being hurt for a couple of years," Ligtenberg said. "Going [to the minors], everybody says [the Marlins] are going to lose 100 games, so if you're losing games why would you call up a veteran guy when you've got all these young guys you want to use?"

 

Ligtenberg and Herges both said they have found a comfort zone here and would like to open the season with the Marlins.

 

"I want nothing more than to make this team," Herges said. "I'm definitely thinking about it. I wish the 29th was today. ... The way I've pitched -- and there are scouts at every game -- if something would happen where it didn't work out here I think I'd be able to find a job. That would be my hope, but I don't want it to come to that. I haven't told my agent to start looking. This is where I want to be."

 

SHORT TO SECOND

 

The Marlins still consider Robert Andino a shortstop, but he has begun working at second base. Manager Joe Girardi didn't rule out Andino playing a few innings there in a Grapefruit League game, but he stopped short of saying Andino is competing with Dan Uggla for the everyday job.

 

"When you get in National League games, players have to be able to play different places," Girardi said. "It's just making sure our guys are versatile."

 

The offensively talented Uggla has made strides defensively at second under infield coach Perry Hill. A more gifted player with the glove, Andino would give Girardi a late-game defensive replacement at second.

 

If his spring performance is any indication, Hanley Ramirez appears to have secured first crack at the shortstop job.

 

"The main thing is to be up there and help the team win," said Andino, who since high school has never played anywhere except shortstop and center field. "I'm an athlete. It isn't a big deal. I just go out there and play. If they tell me to do something, I can't say no."

 

-------

 

The Marlins shifted right-hander Ricky Nolasco to relief work. He will pitch out of the bullpen Thursday against the Mets. They also pushed back Vargas an extra day and could do the same with Josh Johnson, today's starter.

 

The rotation appears to be lining up as follows: Dontrelle Willis, Brian Moehler, Mitre, Vargas and Johnson.

link

So Nolasco may go to the pen, which I'm not sure I agree with. I hope that's temporary. Both Moehler and Mitre in the rotation but no Olsen?? This is just his opinion but I hope not true.

 

And as far as the veteran relievers, I think Ligtenberg & Herges are both going to make the team.

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Good article. Thanks for posting.

 

Said a while back that I wish Andino would spend three weeks with Perry Hill working at 2B.

He won't beat out Han Ram at short, but might challenge Uggla at 2B.

In any event, as the #1 back-up mid-infielder he will get better experience (and confidence building) in the Big Show than he would being demoted back to the minors.

 

I don't want to lose Herges. Just a few years ago he was a top closer. And he's not old. He was a bargain and will add much to the pen and the clubhouse.

 

I like Abercrombie in Center but I'd like to keep Eric Reed for late-inning defense (and pinch-runner.)

 

Jeez... this is exciting.

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I don't want to lose Herges. Just a few years ago he was a top closer. And he's not old. He was a bargain and will add much to the pen and the clubhouse.

 

 

yep, & same with Ligtenberg. Never know how long it might take to completely get back 100% from injury, and then there's the confidence factor as well. If Herges & Light could get back close to what they were a few years ago, suddenly those are two very solid bullpen arms.

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Guest markotsay7

"The main thing is to be up there and help the team win," said Andino, who since high school has never played anywhere except shortstop and center field. "I'm an athlete. It isn't a big deal. I just go out there and play. If they tell me to do something, I can't say no."

Andino is the anti-Soriano.

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So Nolasco may go to the pen, which I'm not sure I agree with. I hope that's temporary. Both Moehler and Mitre in the rotation but no Olsen?? This is just his opinion but I hope not true.

 

And as far as the veteran relievers, I think Ligtenberg & Herges are both going to make the team.

 

My guess is if Nolasco is going to the pen it's so he can get used to facing major league hitters with an eye towards a move into the rotation later. None of the kid pitchers have ever pitched anywhere near a full MLB season so you have to believe he's being groomed to replace the first ineffective or tired arm.

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Why is everyone so uptight about the opening day rotation? It certainly won't remain constant all year..now way. Willis and Vargas will be the only guys finishing the year in the rotation of the guys the began the year there. Lot's of our SP spects will get innings and starts.

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Why is everyone so uptight about the opening day rotation?

 

Yeah I know.... it's just our first opportunity to second-guess this season. :thumbup

 

 

Besides it sounds as if the team won't need a 5th starter for a couple of weeks anyway.

Yeah, I spose. I think it's pretty certain that the starting rotation and a few pen spots are going to be musical chairs. 2B, LF, and CF however are spots of definite worry and opportunities for 2nd guessing. I have absolutely zero faith in Uggla to hit above 250/290/380, however I think we may have hit on something in Abercrombie. I really don't give him much of a chance to develop the plate eye that so many around here think just evolves, but I give him more of a chance than Uggla to be a starting ballplayer for us. Gathright rumors have cooled down and it seems Girardi and Co. are going to give him a deserved shot at holding the job.

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The rotation appears to be lining up as follows: Dontrelle Willis, Brian Moehler, Mitre, Vargas and Johnson.

 

:thumbdown

 

At some point, would Moehler go to the pen and Olsen make the rotation instead? Just throwing it out there for speculation

 

In a way, I kinda envision Mohller as a spot starter, long relief guy

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"The main thing is to be up there and help the team win," said Andino, who since high school has never played anywhere except shortstop and center field. "I'm an athlete. It isn't a big deal. I just go out there and play. If they tell me to do something, I can't say no."

 

Center field...

 

 

......

 

 

BTW, I'd like to keep Herges and Ligtenberg not so much for what they can do on the mound, but because they'd be like 2 extra pitching coaches to help our young talent.

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Not to start up the Gathright/Olsen thing again but regardless of the PBP's comment that the DRays haven't seen what they wanted to see from Olsen this spring, the fact is Gathright is injured. He hurt his shoulder diving for a ball against the Red Sox.

 

A little tidbit from the SPTimes -

 

" Gathright, though, said it was no big deal, just residual pain from two previous separations and surgeries.

 

"I've still got some scar tissue in that shoulder, and any time I land wrong it's going to hurt," Gathright said. "That's the only thing that happened."

 

Gathright, whose previous shoulder problems were in May 2002 and August 2003, said he doesn't expect to miss any time.

 

"I probably could have finished the game," he said. "I'll be ready to go on Thursday."

 

He is expected to reevaluated today or Thursday."

 

For those who want to read it in context http://www.sptimes.com/2006/03/22/Rays/Gat...nged_up_b.shtml

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The rotation appears to be lining up as follows: Dontrelle Willis, Brian Moehler, Mitre, Vargas and Johnson.

 

:thumbdown

 

At some point, would Moehler go to the pen and Olsen make the rotation instead? Just throwing it out there for speculation

 

In a way, I kinda envision Mohller as a spot starter, long relief guy

Yes, it's almost a guarantee. Try and find MarlinLou's breakdown innings by starting pitcher. It'll probably be something close to that barring injuries and trades.

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So Nolasco may go to the pen, which I'm not sure I agree with. I hope that's temporary. Both Moehler and Mitre in the rotation but no Olsen?? This is just his opinion but I hope not true.

 

And as far as the veteran relievers, I think Ligtenberg & Herges are both going to make the team.

 

My guess is if Nolasco is going to the pen it's so he can get used to facing major league hitters with an eye towards a move into the rotation later. None of the kid pitchers have ever pitched anywhere near a full MLB season so you have to believe he's being groomed to replace the first ineffective or tired arm.

 

Plus this way Nolasco can be used as the 6th guy in the rotation if Johnson or any other kids get a tired arm and need to skip a start. If Nolasco's arm can handle the back to back days of the bullpen, I think it's a smart move.

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Yes, it's almost a guarantee. Try and find MarlinLou's breakdown innings by starting pitcher. It'll probably be something close to that barring injuries and trades.

 

Word a call out. Briefly off the top of my head - assuming we keep all the SP at this point because I have been under the impression for months we'd eventually get Gathright and that seems to be winding down (even if I still want him) - I'd imagine a start breakdown like:

 

Willis 32

Vargas 30

Moehler 25

Johnson 25

Mitre 15 (gets downgraded from last time I did this)

Nolasco 15 (upgraded)

Olsen 15

Petit/Anibal 5

 

I still believe Olsen should start out of the pen and have a Johan growth cycle into the rotation. Have him kill lefties, and maybe even set him on a RP schedule where he throw 2 innings every 3 days or something. At the all star break, consider moving him into the rotation full time so he ends the year on a 15 consecutive start string. Also, you have to consider Olsen is physically the most fragile of all these pitchers right now - in terms of workload and injuries. It would be smart to limit him to 130-150 IP, and not have him starting from day 1. Sure you can make an argument that getting up every other day in the pen will hurt his arm more, but I think if he's healthy, it won't matter. You can only baby these guys to an extent.

 

This has nothing to do with Olsen's ceiling compared to everyone else also. He might be the best of the group, but that doesn't mean he has to start the year in the rotation. Johnson and Nolasco should both be able to handle 30 starts if they have to, just physically speaking, so I would give the 5th spot in the rotation to either of them based on that. I also agree with 03's point that I like Nolasco in the bullpen because that gives him short bursts against MLB batters, and not AAA ones, so when Mitre flames out by memorial day, Nolasco has some experience under his belt. Same thing with Olsen to the pen. I'd rather see all the pitchers being built up for success, rather then them burning out in July. I think Olsen (and Anibal if he was in contention for a SP spot) burns out in July if he is starting in April.

 

No Zack Greinkes!!!!!!!!

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Good article. Thanks for posting.

 

Said a while back that I wish Andino would spend three weeks with Perry Hill working at 2B.

He won't beat out Han Ram at short, but might challenge Uggla at 2B.

In any event, as the #1 back-up mid-infielder he will get better experience (and confidence building) in the Big Show than he would being demoted back to the minors.

 

 

 

 

How did you say this a while back if youve only been a member for four days, Arnie...err, Flag Man,...err, Seniors Count?

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"The main thing is to be up there and help the team win," said Andino, who since high school has never played anywhere except shortstop and center field. "I'm an athlete. It isn't a big deal. I just go out there and play. If they tell me to do something, I can't say no."

Andino is the anti-Soriano.

Soriano was the same way at that age

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