Basically here is my idea. I want to start a business that leads small private groups around the world. I want to target 55-69 year olds (although this is debatable) because they have less commitments, more money and either are retiring or on the verge of retiring.

 

I got some feedback that older people like to stay in the places they visit for close to a week rather than jumping from place to place. So I came up a hypathetical trip, let me know how it sounds.

 

This is a Sample trip

Depart from US

Beijing, Hong Kong, Bangkok, Bali, Sydney, Melbourne, Santiago, Buenos Aires and Rio de Janeiro.

 

The trip would last 45 nights (9 cities x 5 nights per city). The price includes all airfare, hotels, airport transfers, taxes, 9 city tours, a tour guide, a baggage handler and breakfast every morning at the hotel. Right now I have the price at $7,500. I would keep groups at around 10 to make it profitable.

 

Do you think the price is fair, to high, low, etc....? Is the trip to short, long, ect?

 

Feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Might be too long in places like Bali and Bangkok, but I think it's the right amount of days for other places. I think the price might be on the low side, but I'm not sure how prices are in Asia. Also, what would the accomodations be like? Three star? Four star? Five star?

Asking people to commit a month and a half to a trip is asking alot in my opinion. They could see the same places potentially on a 10-14 day cruise and get alot out of it, and I could see that being a main competitor.

45 days is too long. If you could make it close to a month that'd be better imo.

 

And then you could make country-specific touring trips...

 

Spain--Madrid, Sevilla, Granada, Cadiz, etc.

 

Or area-specific trips:

 

Latin America, Carribbean, South Pacific, etc etc..

I think its a great idea. Ive heard of something like this being done already. I dont think its too long. Remember these are retired rich people who have nothing but time. I use to be a travel agent and this could definately work if done right. The price you quoted is an excellent price but you could charge 2 or 3 times that. Something like this you must cater to the rich cause they are gonna be the only ones who will ultimately be able to do this.

 

If you need any help feel free to ask me for help.

the price sounds good, but it sounds like the trip is way too long with way too many destinations--even for retired folks who don't have anything better to do.

Sevilla, Granada, Cadiz, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

:thumbup

and i agree with lefty that it may be more fruitful to tailor the tours to specific regions of the world. e.g., east asia--period.

 

the kind of person who'd like to spend time touring south america wouldn't necessarily be as interested in touring asia.

 

also, you could probably extract the most profit by cutting the number of destinations while maximizing the amount of time spent in each place. that's just my guess, though.

There's nothing wrong with the idea, but if you're targeting an older group for the amount of time you are planning, you're looking at upper-middle class to upper class people as most of the working class can't simply say "ah, screw it" to committments for a month and a half. So, I'd say $7,500 sounds substantially lower than I would expect a month and a half of jet-setting to cost.

there is a lot of competition out there and you are way too cheap

 

I was looking at 10 days in europe through a tour group that would be about that price

 

45 days isn't too long as an option - there are many companies that offer trips like this - they tend to make them very comfortable and very indepth

 

there are even some that go longer

 

check out trafalger tours to get an idea of what some companies are offering to the marketplace right now

also you must consider some other expenses - like insurance, licensing, accounting (if you are unable to do this yourself). legal counsel to draft up contracts, marketing, etc

 

there is so much more to the cost than just booking transportation, tours & hotels

I think it may be better to offer an Austrailia/New Zealand trip, Asia trip, and a South America seperately. Like Shaq Man said not everyone would want to go to all those places.

 

Also like everyone has said, 7,500 is super cheap

 

The ideal vacation may be 14-24 days imo, but I guess a retired rich person may enjoy a longer trip

Thanks alot everyone.

 

The hotels I picked where 3.5 stars and higher. The hotels in the cheaper places like Bali and Bangkok were 4.5 star hotels. So these good hotels.

 

I may consider raising the price. Even with that 7,500 I would make about 1,100 a person, or 11,000 per group of 10 for about about 6 weeks work. But yes if I am targeting people who are just retiring, they will most likely have money to spend. Many crusies are expanding the duriation of their cruises to cater to these people. They now have 109 day cruises.

 

I am just toying with different ideas to see what is feasable. I hope to get about 50-100 survyes returned in the next week or so that will help.

 

I agree with cruises being the main rival, but I am looking for people a little more active who arent so much about gorging themselves on a cruise and would rather spend a little more time in one place.

 

I actually have the numbers for a 25 day trip which would be about 3 weeks vacation (with weekends) and that might be targeted towards a yonger audience.

 

The way I figured things out, I will need about 1,000 for a decent webpage, 3,000 for limited marketing (I only need 10 people) and travel insurance. I will most likely need a liscense which I will have to investigate.

 

 

 

 

 

I think it may be better to offer an Austrailia/New Zealand trip, Asia trip, and a South America seperately. Like Shaq Man said not everyone would want to go to all those places.

 

Also like everyone has said, 7,500 is super cheap

 

The ideal vacation may be 14-24 days imo, but I guess a retired rich person may enjoy a longer trip

 

 

Well the trip I threw out was just a hypothetical. It can be altered at little too no cost above the 7,500. I want to try and avoid Europe if possible because most people who are intersted in travel have been there and its more expensive. That isnt to say we wont have trips there. If I charge more I can get a private group of 6 or so to choose whever they want to go and how long they want to go for.

You said you'll make about an 11,000 dollar profit. Does that include personal expenses during this trip?

Most people in that age range have familys, grand kids etc., and I doubt they would want to be away for that long.

 

Plus that age range is not necessarially old, but getting up there, that kind of trip might be asking them to do more than they actually would or should do.

You said you'll make about an 11,000 dollar profit. Does that include personal expenses during this trip?

 

 

That includes airfare and hotel for the tour guide (me at first) and the bag handler. It does not include food, so maybe the price needs to be raised.

have you thought about professional liability insurance?

 

if this is a sole proprietorship it's your $$ on the line - if something doesn't go right on the trip and a customer sues you for not delivering as advertised you could be out good money

 

I don't imagine you would need directors & officers or employment practices - maybe some kind of crime bond pending your setup

 

also if you are owning any vehicles or property there could be some exposure - may not be a bad idea to look at some CGL or a BOP

Most people in that age range have familys, grand kids etc., and I doubt they would want to be away for that long.

 

Plus that age range is not necessarially old, but getting up there, that kind of trip might be asking them to do more than they actually would or should do.

 

 

you are wrong.

 

 

have you thought about professional liability insurance?

 

if this is a sole proprietorship it's your $$ on the line - if something doesn't go right on the trip and a customer sues you for not delivering as advertised you could be out good money

 

I don't imagine you would need directors & officers or employment practices - maybe some kind of crime bond pending your setup

 

also if you are owning any vehicles or property there could be some exposure - may not be a bad idea to look at some CGL or a BOP

 

 

just form an LLC and be done with it on the liability side as far as with customer's potentially suing you in this instance.. best of both worlds, just costs more at startup.....however I'm not sure what licenses or insurance you might need with all the international travel and all. definitely will want to look into that.

There are a lot of companies out there that do similar things. One company is Tauck's, which is who we travel with a lot. You may want to check out their web site and see if they're doing something similar to what you're thinking of. The trips we've taken with Tauck's are typically one or two days in a city and then onto another city, which is exhausting. I know Tauck's has other tours that stay 3 or 4 days in a city, but I don't know much beyond that.

 

Cruises also do a similar thing. You can easily find 90 day cruises that go around the world. The nice thing about cruises is that you don't have to pack every day like on land tours. Your hotel goes with you. The bad thing is it's tough to do inland cities, though we've managed to see Moscow and Xian while on cruises.

 

Your price is much too low though. Airfare alone would kill you. So would hotels - people who are retired and can spend 45 days away from home expect nice hotels. You also could run into a problem with how well people can get around. We recently did two weeks in Australia with a group made up almost exclusively of retirees. They were probably the fittest group I've ever toured with but they still had a slip and fall broken hip injury at the end of the tour. I've been on other tours where some members are just a bit too old and can barely keep up.

 

Other tour companies you may want to check out for pricing and similar offerings are Caravan (though I think they only do the Americas since 9/11), Trafalgar, and Globus.

 

To break into the business, maybe you should consider becoming a tour guide for one of the major tour companies. You'd still get to see places, they'll put you up in the same hotels as their clients, they'll feed you, and you'll make about $5-10 per day per person in your group in tips. With a 40 person group, that's $200-$400 a day. Not enough to retire on but enough to get experience in dealing with people and the logistics. It's a rare person who has the skills to handle both - the logistics of travelling are very difficult, especially in foreign countries. Even a place like Australia was a chore for our tour guide to manage (though he did it perfectly).

There are a lot of companies out there that do similar things. One company is Tauck's, which is who we travel with a lot. You may want to check out their web site and see if they're doing something similar to what you're thinking of. The trips we've taken with Tauck's are typically one or two days in a city and then onto another city, which is exhausting. I know Tauck's has other tours that stay 3 or 4 days in a city, but I don't know much beyond that.

 

Cruises also do a similar thing. You can easily find 90 day cruises that go around the world. The nice thing about cruises is that you don't have to pack every day like on land tours. Your hotel goes with you. The bad thing is it's tough to do inland cities, though we've managed to see Moscow and Xian while on cruises.

 

Your price is much too low though. Airfare alone would kill you. So would hotels - people who are retired and can spend 45 days away from home expect nice hotels. You also could run into a problem with how well people can get around. We recently did two weeks in Australia with a group made up almost exclusively of retirees. They were probably the fittest group I've ever toured with but they still had a slip and fall broken hip injury at the end of the tour. I've been on other tours where some members are just a bit too old and can barely keep up.

 

Other tour companies you may want to check out for pricing and similar offerings are Caravan (though I think they only do the Americas since 9/11), Trafalgar, and Globus.

 

To break into the business, maybe you should consider becoming a tour guide for one of the major tour companies. You'd still get to see places, they'll put you up in the same hotels as their clients, they'll feed you, and you'll make about $5-10 per day per person in your group in tips. With a 40 person group, that's $200-$400 a day. Not enough to retire on but enough to get experience in dealing with people and the logistics. It's a rare person who has the skills to handle both - the logistics of travelling are very difficult, especially in foreign countries. Even a place like Australia was a chore for our tour guide to manage (though he did it perfectly).

 

 

Thanks for the info I will check out Tauck and see what they are about.

 

The price I came up with at 7,500 included everything listed in the original posting (airfare, 3.5 star and better hotels), and still left me with enough profit to make it worth while. However that price does seem low since many people spend thousands on one week alone.

 

Update: I just checked out Tauck and another travel site and their trips are expensive. The 20 day trip to australia and new zealand is about 5,000. My price was steal then, I will def raise it. They also did not have multi region and over 3 week trips.

 

I will do more research on the matter.

Das - actually as an LLC you'd still have that issue - the only way you can get rid of the insurance liability from being your own is to setup a group of investors and form a real corporation - this way the risk would be spread out amongst all the investors - however, as a director of this company you would need D&O coverage because if you lose them their money they'll sue

 

tax liability and insurance liability are different beasts

Das - actually as an LLC you'd still have that issue - the only way you can get rid of the insurance liability from being your own is to setup a group of investors and form a real corporation - this way the risk would be spread out amongst all the investors - however, as a director of this company you would need D&O coverage because if you lose them their money they'll sue

 

tax liability and insurance liability are different beasts

 

 

I was reading the fine print of other travel companies, and its worded that the company is merely serving as an agent of the hotels and airlines. I mean if someone falls at a Marriot hotel, the hotel would be liable not the travel company. I have to do more research on the matter, as well as LLC.

travel agents are sued constantly - anytime you broker a deal for someone they are paying for your professional care - some of the highest risk stuff I look at involves insurance agents, real estate agents & travel agents on the professional side

 

and you're right - a lot of the liability is shifted when you use tours groups and things to that extent - but you will want that in your contract with the hotels, guides, transports, etc if you are the actual tour operator

 

it's a pain in the ass - but in a litigous society it isn't a bad idea to sit down with a reputable insurance agent (go to one of the big retailers, not statefarm.........) and a lawyer to iron all this stuff out - once you get good coverage and contracts in place, then you can operate with it and not have to worry - a decent up front cost, but IMO worth it

travel agents are sued constantly - anytime you broker a deal for someone they are paying for your professional care - some of the highest risk stuff I look at involves insurance agents, real estate agents & travel agents on the professional side

 

and you're right - a lot of the liability is shifted when you use tours groups and things to that extent - but you will want that in your contract with the hotels, guides, transports, etc if you are the actual tour operator

 

it's a pain in the ass - but in a litigous society it isn't a bad idea to sit down with a reputable insurance agent (go to one of the big retailers, not statefarm.........) and a lawyer to iron all this stuff out - once you get good coverage and contracts in place, then you can operate with it and not have to worry - a decent up front cost, but IMO worth it

 

 

Thanks, I will definetly look into that.

 

Do you have any idea what price I would be looking at?

This wouldn't happen to be one of those sex tours, would it?