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Breaking News: Grand Jury to decide whether Barry Bonds lied in 2003 t


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I guess they want to make him a martir

 

leave him alone.

 

 

Hah. So I assume they should just let him off the hook for lying to the grand jury? Amusing.

 

I hope Bonds rides the steroid train straight to the cell he belongs in.

 

 

They should leave him alone. It is clear Palmerio lied, yet why is there no witchhunt for him? It is biased and BS. Go after one, go after them all.

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Guest Juanky

The grand jury isn't going to decide whether or not Barry lied, they're going to decide whether there's enough evidence to go to trial.

 

Sorry, title bothered me.

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Guest Juanky

By the way, about the Palmeiro reference:

 

When the BALCO trial hit the grand jury, there was a large amount of information that the government picked up detailing Bonds' use before his testimony under oath. As far I know, this information did not exist for Palmeiro. Since he testified before Congress under oath and then later on was found to have used steroids, he didn't do anything wrong in the eyes of the law based on the evidence. Can't say he lied when the only information available that says otherwise was taken after the testimony. Bonds on the other hand has all the info from before his testimony, hence the charges.

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By the way, about the Palmeiro reference:

 

When the BALCO trial hit the grand jury, there was a large amount of information that the government picked up detailing Bonds' use before his testimony under oath. As far I know, this information did not exist for Palmeiro. Since he testified before Congress under oath and then later on was found to have used steroids, he didn't do anything wrong in the eyes of the law based on the evidence. Can't say he lied when the only information available that says otherwise was taken after the testimony. Bonds on the other hand has all the info from before his testimony, hence the charges.

 

 

 

That is not really true. That is a pretty big copout answer from the government. The fact is he was CAUGHT after the grand jury testimony. That does not mean he did not lie and if there are investigations going on about Bonds potential lies to a grand jury, then there sure as hell should be investigations about Palmeiro. I would be shocked if there was not plenty of evidence out there to be had to prove Raffy lied. To prosecute Raffy, all they would need is evidence that he took 'roids before he testified. Should be a pretty simple investigation, yet I haven't seen them look, have you? They are cornering Bonds unfairly. Listen, if they want to go after him that's fine by me. Just as long as they don't play favorites and narrow the search to whomever they feel and not others.

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Guest Juanky

That is not really true. That is a pretty big copout answer from the government. The fact is he was CAUGHT after the grand jury testimony. That does not mean he did not lie and if there are investigations going on about Bonds potential lies to a grand jury, then there sure as hell should be investigations about Palmeiro. I would be shocked if there was not plenty of evidence out there to be had to prove Raffy lied. To prosecute Raffy, all they would need is evidence that he took 'roids before he testified. Should be a pretty simple investigation, yet I haven't seen them look, have you? They are cornering Bonds unfairly. Listen, if they want to go after him that's fine by me. Just as long as they don't play favorites and narrow the search to whomever they feel and not others.

Seeing as I'm not a Federal Attorney, I can't say with complete and total confidence that there is no evidence against Raffy.

 

That being said, when someone gets publicly caught for taking steroids, that person would be the highest on the list to check for perjury charges. It'd be rather easy for the government to build a case on perjury with the slightest of information from beforehand if they were allowed to introduce the evidence that tested positive after testifying in front of Congress. However, since they have yet to bring charges against Palmeiro, it is a rational conclusion that rather than a large government conspiracy against Barry Bonds, the truth of the matter is that the evidence is there against Bonds while it just isn't against Palmeiro.

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ESPN Legal Analyst : "This is serious, if they are at the grand jury they mean business"

 

That is not really true. That is a pretty big copout answer from the government. The fact is he was CAUGHT after the grand jury testimony. That does not mean he did not lie and if there are investigations going on about Bonds potential lies to a grand jury, then there sure as hell should be investigations about Palmeiro. I would be shocked if there was not plenty of evidence out there to be had to prove Raffy lied. To prosecute Raffy, all they would need is evidence that he took 'roids before he testified. Should be a pretty simple investigation, yet I haven't seen them look, have you? They are cornering Bonds unfairly. Listen, if they want to go after him that's fine by me. Just as long as they don't play favorites and narrow the search to whomever they feel and not others.

Seeing as I'm not a Federal Attorney, I can't say with complete and total confidence that there is no evidence against Raffy.

 

That being said, when someone gets publicly caught for taking steroids, that person would be the highest on the list to check for perjury charges. It'd be rather easy for the government to build a case on perjury with the slightest of information from beforehand if they were allowed to introduce the evidence that tested positive after testifying in front of Congress. However, since they have yet to bring charges against Palmeiro, it is a rational conclusion that rather than a large government conspiracy against Barry Bonds, the truth of the matter is that the evidence is there against Bonds while it just isn't against Palmeiro.

The ESPN legal analyst said that he tested positive after testifying, so it is a bit different. However, I agree that it looks like a double standard

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Guest Juanky

Without evidence to the contrary, it's impossible to prove perjury against Palmeiro for testing positive after his Congressional testimony. Since, at this point, we know of no evidence proving Palmeiro did indeed commit perjury, there's absolutely no reason to claim double standard and think that the world is out to get Barry Bonds. The federal government, quite frankly, doesn't give three shits about Barry Bonds or Rafael Palmeiro. To our knowledge the evidence exists for Bonds and not Palmeiro, so the charges are brought against Bonds.

 

Not everything is a conspiracy, believe it or not.

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Without evidence to the contrary, it's impossible to prove perjury against Palmeiro for testing positive after his Congressional testimony. Since, at this point, we know of no evidence proving Palmeiro did indeed commit perjury, there's absolutely no reason to claim double standard and think that the world is out to get Barry Bonds. The federal government, quite frankly, doesn't give three shits about Barry Bonds or Rafael Palmeiro. To our knowledge the evidence exists for Bonds and not Palmeiro, so the charges are brought against Bonds.

 

 

Well said. I concur.

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Without evidence to the contrary, it's impossible to prove perjury against Palmeiro for testing positive after his Congressional testimony. Since, at this point, we know of no evidence proving Palmeiro did indeed commit perjury, there's absolutely no reason to claim double standard and think that the world is out to get Barry Bonds. The federal government, quite frankly, doesn't give three shits about Barry Bonds or Rafael Palmeiro. To our knowledge the evidence exists for Bonds and not Palmeiro, so the charges are brought against Bonds.

 

Not everything is a conspiracy, believe it or not.

 

 

 

Did you hear of any newspaper journalist doing research about Raffy's prior history? Has Bud Selig started a "special investigation" to determine if Raffy used 'roids before he testified? Have you heard if the federal government has tried to investigate for further information? Well, since all three answers are no, then believe it or not the evidence in this situation points to a double standard. Conseco called Raffy out in his book with details and so far, most of that book has rung true. Is it a coincidence Palmeiro's career starting taking of with the arrival of Jose in Texas? Believe me, there is plenty of evidence to be found. Nobody called it a conspiracy, just a bias and double standard.

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Selig is looking into whether or not Bonds did steroids.

 

Palmeiro tested positive, we know he did them, why would there be a need for a special committee?

 

The reason there is a double standard, if you want to call it that, is because Bonds holds one of the biggest records in the sport and is coming up another enormous one.

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Guest Juanky

Did you hear of any newspaper journalist doing research about Raffy's prior history? Has Bud Selig started a "special investigation" to determine if Raffy used 'roids before he testified? Have you heard if the federal government has tried to investigate for further information? Well, since all three answers are no, then believe it or not the evidence in this situation points to a double standard. Conseco called Raffy out in his book with details and so far, most of that book has rung true. Is it a coincidence Palmeiro's career starting taking of with the arrival of Jose in Texas? Believe me, there is plenty of evidence to be found. Nobody called it a conspiracy, just a bias and double standard.

When was the last time any evidence, even anecdotal evidence, was offered to suggest that Palmeiro was aiding in the distribution of steroids or the furthering of BALCO's operation?

 

That's really what it comes down to here. If Palmeiro were to have been actively distributing and aiding in BALCO's operations, then the Feds would be knocking down his door as well. But since he was merely a user, what do they care? If they were going to pick up all the users, they'd go after every single person who testified in Congress to see if there's even the chance they committed perjury. The government just doesn't care about simple users - they're going to go after the big fish. And in the grand scheme of this steroid investigation, Palmeiro doesn't mean anything.

 

Another important fact that's missing here is that the evidence of Bonds lying under oath comes not from anything the Feds wrote up, but from the documentation of BALCO. Is it the attorney general's fault that BALCO decided to keep detailed reports of what Bonds did? No. Did BALCO even keep records of what Palmeiro did? Not to our knowledge. So calling this a double standard is simply a false accusation.

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BTW, while I think Selig is lacking in many areas and is quite corrupt(see Milwaukee's retractible roof stadium and other shady operations while owner of the franchise), I applaud him for wanting to get to the root and destroy the steroids problem.

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Palmeiro lied to Congress, not a grand jury, that's the big difference.

 

Plus, there is still nothing beyond hearsay that can actually be pinned to Bonds, so I find this whole "inevitable jail time" laughable.

 

Regardless of whether or not you think he did it, there is absolutely nothing that would be admitted in a court of law as evidence that exists to link Barry Bonds to steroids.

 

I've read most of Game of Shadows and the way that BALCO allegedly kept records is so fungible that there is no way to conclusively state what 'I' 'G' 'S' and other single letter symbols on calendars stand for. After all, this is a nutrition company as well so simply having a calendar for an athlete is by no means an instant linking to steroids.

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Did you hear of any newspaper journalist doing research about Raffy's prior history? Has Bud Selig started a "special investigation" to determine if Raffy used 'roids before he testified? Have you heard if the federal government has tried to investigate for further information? Well, since all three answers are no, then believe it or not the evidence in this situation points to a double standard. Conseco called Raffy out in his book with details and so far, most of that book has rung true. Is it a coincidence Palmeiro's career starting taking of with the arrival of Jose in Texas? Believe me, there is plenty of evidence to be found. Nobody called it a conspiracy, just a bias and double standard.

When was the last time any evidence, even anecdotal evidence, was offered to suggest that Palmeiro was aiding in the distribution of steroids or the furthering of BALCO's operation?

 

That's really what it comes down to here. If Palmeiro were to have been actively distributing and aiding in BALCO's operations, then the Feds would be knocking down his door as well. But since he was merely a user, what do they care? If they were going to pick up all the users, they'd go after every single person who testified in Congress to see if there's even the chance they committed perjury. The government just doesn't care about simple users - they're going to go after the big fish. And in the grand scheme of this steroid investigation, Palmeiro doesn't mean anything.

 

 

Where did you pull this from? This is the first of this reasoning I have he heard to this extent. I mean, according to the source that leaked to espn, the rational was:

 

The Chronicle's sources told the newspaper that federal investigators believed Bonds was lying because documents seized in government raids included documentation of the slugger's drug use. The Chronicle's sources told the newspaper that federal investigators believed Bonds was lying because documents seized in government raids included documentation of the slugger's drug use.

A number of professional athletes were given immunity from prosecution in exchange for their truthful testimony. They were also told that they would be prosecuted if it was later discovered they had lied.

 

Bonds, who testified before a San Francisco federal grand jury looking into steroid use by top athletes, has repeatedly denied knowingly using performance-enhancing drugs...........

 

Meanwhile, baseball star Rafael Palmeiro will not be prosecuted on perjury charges after lawmakers said there isn't enough evidence to prove he lied when he told Congress under oath that he had "never used steroids" -- six weeks before failing a steroid test.

 

The investigation did not conclude whether the former Baltimore Orioles slugger had actually ever used performance-enhancing substances prior to his testimony before the House Government Reform Committee.

 

 

 

Nowhere have I seen the grand jury going after Bonds for "steroid distribution". If you want to choose to believe the US Government could not find ANY evidence that Palmeiro used steroids before he testified, then that is your choice. However, the odds of that are almost zero in my eyes. Listen, I have no problem with the government going after Bonds, as long as they go after a liar like Raffy as well. I also have no problems with Bud going after Barry, as long as he goes after big names like McGwire and Sosa also. This double standard crap is BS, HR record or not. Raffy, Mac and Sosa are all HUGE names in baseball and potential HOF players. The way Mac acted on the stand was appauling. Where is his investigation? They should not be given a free pass on the matter.

 

Palmeiro lied to Congress, not a grand jury, that's the big difference.

 

 

Plus, there is still nothing beyond hearsay that can actually be pinned to Bonds, so I find this whole "inevitable jail time" laughable.

 

Regardless of whether or not you think he did it, there is absolutely nothing that would be admitted in a court of law as evidence that exists to link Barry Bonds to steroids.

 

I've read most of Game of Shadows and the way that BALCO allegedly kept records is so fungible that there is no way to conclusively state what 'I' 'G' 'S' and other single letter symbols on calendars stand for. After all, this is a nutrition company as well so simply having a calendar for an athlete is by no means an instant linking to steroids.

 

 

I mean, not really. Palmeiro lied to the House Government Reform Committee, which means by law he can still be brought up on charges of perjury. The fact of the matter is they let him off the hook without doing a real thorough investigation because he only has 500 HR instead of 700, while they continue to ride Barry's jock.

 

BTW, good heads up on the Book of Shadows. I haven't picked it up yet and haven't heard anything real detailed about it. Thanks for the insight.

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Guest Juanky

Nowhere have I seen the grand jury going after Bonds for "steroid distribution". If you want to choose to believe the US Government could not find ANY evidence that Palmeiro used steroids before he testified, then that is your choice. However, the odds of that are almost zero in my eyes. Listen, I have no problem with the government going after Bonds, as long as they go after a liar like Raffy as well. I also have no problems with Bud going after Barry, as long as he goes after big names like McGwire and Sosa also. This double standard crap is BS, HR record or not. Raffy, Mac and Sosa are all HUGE names in baseball and potential HOF players. The way Mac acted on the stand was appauling. Where is his investigation? They should not be given a free pass on the matter.

There were two players whose Grand Jury testimony was leaked, Barry Bonds and Jason Giambi. There's no evidence to think Giambi lied, there's evidence to think Bonds did. This was a grand jury hearing, not a Congressional hearing. Pretty easy explanation right there. But of course, we need to take a simple sentence explanation and blow it way out of proportion and search for conspiracy theories, double standards, racism, and whatever else we can come up with.

 

The aiding angle is from my own study of government indictment history and activity.

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