Jump to content

Dems Vote Against Needing A Photo I.D To Vote


Passion

Recommended Posts

Say I am poor and I don't have a driver's liscense and I'm black. I have a valid voter card and the only photo ID I have is an old high school ID card from a couple years ago. I'm one of the many, many poor black people that Democrats comb neighborhoods for to give them a ride to their local polls.

 

The person working the desk at the local poll knows that I'm part of a van full of poor black people that the Democrats drove over.

 

I'm turned away from the polls.

 

There is a much greater risk of a situation like this happening if this bill is passed

 

I say screw this bill. I'd rather have an absolutely miniscule amount of fraudulent votes than to have many times more poor people turned away from the polls.

 

Thats the exact disgusting reason why Democrats don't want this to pass. Democrats basically use a race for votes and herd them like mindless cattle to vote. Disgusting.

 

One of the most racist things in this country is the idea that because you are black, your vote belongs to the Democratic Party.

 

Your logic makes no sense are you implying that people get turned away now because they are known to be a group of minority voters?

 

Poverty has nothing to do with anything if this were passed as cheap, photo ID cards would be distributed to those that wanted to vote. So you'd actually be letting the minority take an active part in the process instead of dumbing the process down and turning a free car ride and some McDonalds coupons into votes.

 

It's scary to me that we are going with the 'honor system' with something this big.

 

The courts would shoot that down so fast in accoradance with the 24th amendment that it wouldnt even be funny.

 

Change that amendment and you might be able to legally do this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

....or people under the age of 16, or those who's right to vote has been taken away, people voting more then once, etc.

 

It's a big problem at the smaller levels and less when you go up the ladder, but as we've seen recently in tight elections, that could effect something major.

 

But let's just have a hands off approach and then when it gets to a boiling point down the road, try to band aid that mess with politicians who may have been aided with false votes.

 

Then why do Republicans oppose paper trails on voting machines?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

....or people under the age of 16, or those who's right to vote has been taken away, people voting more then once, etc.

 

It's a big problem at the smaller levels and less when you go up the ladder, but as we've seen recently in tight elections, that could effect something major.

 

But let's just have a hands off approach and then when it gets to a boiling point down the road, try to band aid that mess with politicians who may have been aided with false votes.

 

 

Fine implement a system that is practical, legal and disenfranchies 0 voters.

 

Go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Say I am poor and I don't have a driver's liscense and I'm black. I have a valid voter card and the only photo ID I have is an old high school ID card from a couple years ago. I'm one of the many, many poor black people that Democrats comb neighborhoods for to give them a ride to their local polls.

 

The person working the desk at the local poll knows that I'm part of a van full of poor black people that the Democrats drove over.

 

I'm turned away from the polls.

 

There is a much greater risk of a situation like this happening if this bill is passed

 

I say screw this bill. I'd rather have an absolutely miniscule amount of fraudulent votes than to have many times more poor people turned away from the polls.

 

Thats the exact disgusting reason why Democrats don't want this to pass. Democrats basically use a race for votes and herd them like mindless cattle to vote. Disgusting.

 

One of the most racist things in this country is the idea that because you are black, your vote belongs to the Democratic Party.

 

Your logic makes no sense are you implying that people get turned away now because they are known to be a group of minority voters?

 

Poverty has nothing to do with anything if this were passed as cheap, photo ID cards would be distributed to those that wanted to vote. So you'd actually be letting the minority take an active part in the process instead of dumbing the process down and turning a free car ride and some McDonalds coupons into votes.

 

It's scary to me that we are going with the 'honor system' with something this big.

 

The courts would shoot that down so fast in accoradance with the 24th amendment that it wouldnt even be funny.

 

Change that amendment and you might be able to legally do this.

Whatever, I meant free as I have said in previous posts but thanks Das Texnicality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First of all, voting should be free. I don't know who would disagree with that. Forcing people to spend money for the right to vote is probably the most undemocratic idea possible.

 

You have to pay to exercise your 2nd amendment rights, and some liberal states cannot outlaw guns completely because that would be unconstitutional, so they simply make the process of being able to purchase one so tedious and long with countless expensive and utterly worthless garbage fee's that most people can't afford. Even right here in Florida, The Gunshine state, I had to pay more than $140 in licensing fee's for a simple CCW and it takes more than 4 months. It is exponentially worse in other areas of the country for just simply being able to purchase a firearm.

 

You may have a point regarding the legality of forcing you to pay simply for the right to buy a gun when that is a right already given to you by the Constitution. I suggest you create a thread about it, if it bothers you enough. But regarding voting rights, I'm not sure you have a point, unless you are saying that you think it is permissible to charge people to excercise their voting rights. I just don't think anyone here would actually support that position, and if we could all agree on just this one thing, we might be able to enjoy a more fruitful debate on this entire matter.

My point is, the democrats can't have it both ways. They try and restrict the 2nd Amendment so much so that it's nearly impossible in some states to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights unless you're willing to wait months and pay absurd licensing fee's which are sometimes hundreds of dollars, yet god forbid the evil republicans want people to simply have to show a simple photo ID when they vote to make sure they're not trying to fraudulently vote.

 

And you have to show a photo ID every single time you exercise your 2nd Amendment rights to make sure you are who you say you are, so why shouldn't you have to do the same for the 15th Amendment to make sure you are who you say you are? Is the right to self defense for the preservation of your life and your families lives not as important as the right to vote? ESPECIALLY with tens of millions of illegal immigrants in this country who are ineligible to vote who i'm sure will probably try and vote, it is absolutely essential that we make sure people who are voting are who they claim to be.

 

No offense intended, but now you're sounding like a gun nut. Yes, the right to self defense is as important as the right to vote. Now, you own like 50 guns, and I'm guessing they're not all for self-defense. I'm also guessing you have never actually used a single one of those guns for self-defense. However, if they start letting people buy guns without at least requiring a photo ID and at least a minimal background check, you may need all 50 of those guns before long. We're getting way off subject here, but I hope you see my point. While I might just agree with you about the absurdity of the licensing fees, I think, from a practical standpoint, requiring some kind of identification for the purchase of a gun is pretty hard to argue with. And furthermore, if you can afford to purchase a gun, you can probably afford the ID to go with it.

 

And, as I said upthread, I agree completely with the principle of making people show ID in order to vote. I just don't agree with passing such a law before having in place a program that will allow people free and easy access to those IDs. Fraudulent voting is not yet such a big problem that we ought to go trampling on the most fundamental principles of this nation. There may come a time where the number of fraudulent votes necessitates such a law, but we don't appear to be even so much as approaching that point right now.

I am not against proving that you're an American citizen who is legally able to purchase and own a firearm, just as I am not against the fact that you should have to prove you're an American citizen who is legally eligible to vote. There is absolutely no difference between the two, problem is the democrats can't have it both ways. They want to make it impossible to exercise your 2nd Amendment right but on the flip side don't even want you to prove you're an American when you go to the polls in this country. It's flat out ridiculous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First of all, voting should be free. I don't know who would disagree with that. Forcing people to spend money for the right to vote is probably the most undemocratic idea possible.

 

You have to pay to exercise your 2nd amendment rights, and some liberal states cannot outlaw guns completely because that would be unconstitutional, so they simply make the process of being able to purchase one so tedious and long with countless expensive and utterly worthless garbage fee's that most people can't afford. Even right here in Florida, The Gunshine state, I had to pay more than $140 in licensing fee's for a simple CCW and it takes more than 4 months. It is exponentially worse in other areas of the country for just simply being able to purchase a firearm.

 

You may have a point regarding the legality of forcing you to pay simply for the right to buy a gun when that is a right already given to you by the Constitution. I suggest you create a thread about it, if it bothers you enough. But regarding voting rights, I'm not sure you have a point, unless you are saying that you think it is permissible to charge people to excercise their voting rights. I just don't think anyone here would actually support that position, and if we could all agree on just this one thing, we might be able to enjoy a more fruitful debate on this entire matter.

My point is, the democrats can't have it both ways. They try and restrict the 2nd Amendment so much so that it's nearly impossible in some states to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights unless you're willing to wait months and pay absurd licensing fee's which are sometimes hundreds of dollars, yet god forbid the evil republicans want people to simply have to show a simple photo ID when they vote to make sure they're not trying to fraudulently vote.

 

And you have to show a photo ID every single time you exercise your 2nd Amendment rights to make sure you are who you say you are, so why shouldn't you have to do the same for the 15th Amendment to make sure you are who you say you are? Is the right to self defense for the preservation of your life and your families lives not as important as the right to vote? ESPECIALLY with tens of millions of illegal immigrants in this country who are ineligible to vote who i'm sure will probably try and vote, it is absolutely essential that we make sure people who are voting are who they claim to be.

 

No offense intended, but now you're sounding like a gun nut. Yes, the right to self defense is as important as the right to vote. Now, you own like 50 guns, and I'm guessing they're not all for self-defense. I'm also guessing you have never actually used a single one of those guns for self-defense. However, if they start letting people buy guns without at least requiring a photo ID and at least a minimal background check, you may need all 50 of those guns before long. We're getting way off subject here, but I hope you see my point. While I might just agree with you about the absurdity of the licensing fees, I think, from a practical standpoint, requiring some kind of identification for the purchase of a gun is pretty hard to argue with. And furthermore, if you can afford to purchase a gun, you can probably afford the ID to go with it.

 

And, as I said upthread, I agree completely with the principle of making people show ID in order to vote. I just don't agree with passing such a law before having in place a program that will allow people free and easy access to those IDs. Fraudulent voting is not yet such a big problem that we ought to go trampling on the most fundamental principles of this nation. There may come a time where the number of fraudulent votes necessitates such a law, but we don't appear to be even so much as approaching that point right now.

I am not against proving that you're an American citizen who is legally able to purchase and own a firearm, just as I am not against the fact that you should have to prove you're an American citizen who is legally eligible to vote. There is absolutely no difference between the two, problem is the democrats can't have it both ways. They want to make it impossible to exercise your 2nd Amendment right but on the flip side don't even want you to prove you're an American when you go to the polls in this country. It's flat out ridiculous.

2nd amendment doesnt apply to states. They arent hypocrites.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

....or people under the age of 16, or those who's right to vote has been taken away, people voting more then once, etc.

 

It's a big problem at the smaller levels and less when you go up the ladder, but as we've seen recently in tight elections, that could effect something major.

 

But let's just have a hands off approach and then when it gets to a boiling point down the road, try to band aid that mess with politicians who may have been aided with false votes.

 

Then why do Republicans oppose paper trails on voting machines?

Voter confidentiality? I don't know or care about that or know why everything has to be a right or left issue. I'm saying what I feel is the right thing to do as far as I, a legal voter in this country who doesn't want his vote taken away because we have no system in place to prevent voter fraud.

 

It's not the flaming ace in the hole of the Democrats in race, poverty, or any other factor it's about assuring that I get my right to vote and that no one who shouldn't be able to vote, gets to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Poverty has nothing to do with anything if this were passed as cheap, photo ID cards would be distributed to those that wanted to vote. So you'd actually be letting the minority take an active part in the process instead of dumbing the process down and turning a free car ride and some McDonalds coupons into votes.

 

 

I agree with the majority of your post, but you're making it sound like the distribution of these ID cards is a done deal. What makes you sure that this could be accomplished in a cost-effective manner? And wouldn't you prefer to see any distribution scheme in action before you pass a law that absolutely demands the distribution scheme be successful? Or, if not see it in action, at least see some details as to how this distribution would be achieved? You can't just pass the law and then say, "oh, we'll just figure out how to pass these voter cards out later." That would be like going into Iraq and saying, "oh, we'll just figure out how to get ourselves out later."

 

What the Republicans need to do is to come up with a plan that addresses the Democrats' concerns. That would be better than just having both parties fling poo at each other like usual.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Poverty has nothing to do with anything if this were passed as cheap, photo ID cards would be distributed to those that wanted to vote. So you'd actually be letting the minority take an active part in the process instead of dumbing the process down and turning a free car ride and some McDonalds coupons into votes.

 

I agree with the majority of your post, but you're making it sound like the distribution of these ID cards is a done deal. What makes you sure that this could be accomplished in a cost-effective manner? And wouldn't you prefer to see any distribution scheme in action before you pass a law that absolutely demands the distribution scheme be successful? Or, if not see it in action, at least see some details as to how this distribution would be achieved? You can't just pass the law and then say, "oh, we'll just figure out how to pass these voter cards out later." That would be like going into Iraq and saying, "oh, we'll just figure out how to get ourselves out later."

 

What the Republicans need to do is to come up with a plan that addresses the Democrats' concerns. That would be better than just having both parties fling poo at each other like usual.True, I guess this whole time I've been arguing on the wide issue, and not this exact piece of legislation. Obviously that system would have to be in place and the fact that this is trying to be passed before November smells rotten.

 

As for cost effective, this is just a drop in the bucket when you are discussing things that tax payers want to be paying for and programs that need their 'fat' cut off of to be more cost effective. There are so many things that the government spends on that isn't cost effective that in something as big a deal as this, I don't care much about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

....or people under the age of 16, or those who's right to vote has been taken away, people voting more then once, etc.

 

It's a big problem at the smaller levels and less when you go up the ladder, but as we've seen recently in tight elections, that could effect something major.

 

But let's just have a hands off approach and then when it gets to a boiling point down the road, try to band aid that mess with politicians who may have been aided with false votes.

 

Then why do Republicans oppose paper trails on voting machines?

Voter confidentiality? I don't know or care about that or know why everything has to be a right or left issue. I'm saying what I feel is the right thing to do as far as I, a legal voter in this country who doesn't want his vote taken away because we have no system in place to prevent voter fraud.

 

It's not the flaming ace in the hole of the Democrats in race, poverty, or any other factor it's about assuring that I get my right to vote and that no one who shouldn't be able to vote, gets to.

No, it doesnt have to say who you voted for. Just tally a vote. Essentially a paper ballot printed out.

 

And come on. You guys mentioned Democrats being political about this like 50 times and now Republicans are immune?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

....or people under the age of 16, or those who's right to vote has been taken away, people voting more then once, etc.

 

It's a big problem at the smaller levels and less when you go up the ladder, but as we've seen recently in tight elections, that could effect something major.

 

But let's just have a hands off approach and then when it gets to a boiling point down the road, try to band aid that mess with politicians who may have been aided with false votes.

 

Then why do Republicans oppose paper trails on voting machines?

Voter confidentiality? I don't know or care about that or know why everything has to be a right or left issue. I'm saying what I feel is the right thing to do as far as I, a legal voter in this country who doesn't want his vote taken away because we have no system in place to prevent voter fraud.

 

It's not the flaming ace in the hole of the Democrats in race, poverty, or any other factor it's about assuring that I get my right to vote and that no one who shouldn't be able to vote, gets to.

No, it doesnt have to say who you voted for. Just tally a vote. Essentially a paper ballot printed out.

 

And come on. You guys mentioned Democrats being political about this like 50 times and now Republicans are immune?I was calling you out on bringing up some other point as like a 'Republican jab' or something when as far as I'm concern, this isn't an issue that deals with republican or democratic core values, that is unless you group all poor and minorities as Democrats.

 

Which, as a minority, I find hysterical and sad at the same time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

....or people under the age of 16, or those who's right to vote has been taken away, people voting more then once, etc.

 

It's a big problem at the smaller levels and less when you go up the ladder, but as we've seen recently in tight elections, that could effect something major.

 

But let's just have a hands off approach and then when it gets to a boiling point down the road, try to band aid that mess with politicians who may have been aided with false votes.

 

Then why do Republicans oppose paper trails on voting machines?

Voter confidentiality? I don't know or care about that or know why everything has to be a right or left issue. I'm saying what I feel is the right thing to do as far as I, a legal voter in this country who doesn't want his vote taken away because we have no system in place to prevent voter fraud.

 

It's not the flaming ace in the hole of the Democrats in race, poverty, or any other factor it's about assuring that I get my right to vote and that no one who shouldn't be able to vote, gets to.

No, it doesnt have to say who you voted for. Just tally a vote. Essentially a paper ballot printed out.

 

And come on. You guys mentioned Democrats being political about this like 50 times and now Republicans are immune?I was calling you out on bringing up some other point as like a 'Republican jab' or something when as far as I'm concern, this isn't an issue that deals with republican or democratic core values, that is unless you group all poor and minorities as Democrats.

 

Which, as a minority, I find hysterical and sad at the same time.

Everyone is in agreement on the need to preserve vote integrity. The issue has more to do with being a good faith effort on the part of both sides. Both sides are playing politics with voter integrity. And the dems wont budge until they get assurances of the other side making concessions. So if you really care about this, look for more expansive culprits in slowing it down.

 

And I think you actually have it backwards. A lot of minority groups oppose voter ID, regardless of if they vote democratic or republican. It isnt dems that are playing the race card.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everyone is in agreement on the need to preserve vote integrity. The issue has more to do with being a good faith effort on the part of both sides. Both sides are playing politics with voter integrity. And the dems wont budge until they get assurances of the other side making concessions. So if you really care about this, look for more expansive culprits in slowing it down.

 

And I think you actually have it backwards. A lot of minority groups oppose voter ID, regardless of if they vote democratic or republican. It isnt dems that are playing the race card.

I don't think you are in agreement with voter integrity when one side says there isn't a problem and votes against a prevenitive measure. I don't know how in anyway that is being 'for' integrity.

 

The dems are definitely playing the race card when they do such absurd things as comparing the bill to segregation-era measures aimed at disenfranchising Southern blacks. Doing what they love to do, rile up one of their bases and paint republicans as mean and racist. There is absolutely no reason to bring up race in any of this besides talking about illegal aliens unless you are okay with the dems once again lumping blacks into poor and needy to come out looking golden and caring.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then why do Republicans oppose paper trails on voting machines?

 

 

FM - democrats are killing the same proposals here in AZ

 

Well at least on the national level. I cant say anything for how politics works in AZ.

 

for the most part the machines that are used and many requirements are set by the states

 

i personally would like to see a system developed that not only creates a paper copy, but allows the polling place to reconcile the # of people who entered to cast votes vs the # of votes cast - also on the electronic ones better confirmation that your vote did indeed go through

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everyone is in agreement on the need to preserve vote integrity. The issue has more to do with being a good faith effort on the part of both sides. Both sides are playing politics with voter integrity. And the dems wont budge until they get assurances of the other side making concessions. So if you really care about this, look for more expansive culprits in slowing it down.

 

And I think you actually have it backwards. A lot of minority groups oppose voter ID, regardless of if they vote democratic or republican. It isnt dems that are playing the race card.

I don't think you are in agreement with voter integrity when one side says there isn't a problem and votes against a prevenitive measure. I don't know how in anyway that is being 'for' integrity.

 

The dems are definitely playing the race card when they do such absurd things as comparing the bill to segregation-era measures aimed at disenfranchising Southern blacks. Doing what they love to do, rile up one of their bases and paint republicans as mean and racist. There is absolutely no reason to bring up race in any of this besides talking about illegal aliens unless you are okay with the dems once again lumping blacks into poor and needy to come out looking golden and caring.

Ok, well how about this: Im ok with the use of voter IDs at polls, but only if the government pays for them. I mean if we are really concerned with eliminating fraud, why not go the extra mile? -Signed, flying_mollusk.

 

And you are totally wrong about the dems trying to rile up black and hispanic groups. Black and hispanic groups have been against this before dems were and they are the ones that first referenced it as a poll tax. They would rip into the dems if they voted for this without getting adequate assurances.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The argument regarding the number of people without photo ID is irrelevant. Only the number of registered voters without ID is relevant.

 

The claim of how many fradulent votes cast in 2002-2004 is also assinine. First, because votes are not routinely investigated. There are more than 52 persons that voted in more than one state, and those are fraudulent votes. There were more than 52 convicted felons that voted, and those are fraudulent votes.

 

"Provisional" ballots are prime for fraudulent votes. Basically you show up and say "I would like to vote" then you fill out a ballot without any registration proof and no presence on the rolls. You could be anybody, and if for any reason those votes are not counted, claims of disenfranchisement will ring out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok...if i seem to remember correctly..republicans are notorious for rooting for rain on election days...why? because they want less to people to vote...less votes, less about of disparity between the groups voting...ie...the rich and powerful vote in the rich and powerful...democrats want as many people as possible to vote...and this is why they are voting against this photo id...this is just another classic example of republicans trying to break the law to change it...classy bunch of guys they are...soooooo classy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok...if i seem to remember correctly..republicans are notorious for rooting for rain on election days...why? because they want less to people to vote...less votes, less about of disparity between the groups voting...ie...the rich and powerful vote in the rich and powerful...democrats want as many people as possible to vote...and this is why they are voting against this photo id...this is just another classic example of republicans trying to break the law to change it...classy bunch of guys they are...soooooo classy

 

In the 2004 Presidential Election more people voted than in any other election, so tell me who won?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok...if i seem to remember correctly..republicans are notorious for rooting for rain on election days...why? because they want less to people to vote...less votes, less about of disparity between the groups voting...ie...the rich and powerful vote in the rich and powerful...democrats want as many people as possible to vote...and this is why they are voting against this photo id...this is just another classic example of republicans trying to break the law to change it...classy bunch of guys they are...soooooo classy

 

In the 2004 Presidential Election more people voted than in any other election, so tell me who won?

i hate be captain obvious here...but A. im a democrat and i didnt vote for kerry(didnt vote for bush either) B. we have more people in this country than ever before C. do we need another reminder that W. should have never been pres in first place? or should I start in again on how badly his administration has been...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok...if i seem to remember correctly..republicans are notorious for rooting for rain on election days...why? because they want less to people to vote...less votes, less about of disparity between the groups voting...ie...the rich and powerful vote in the rich and powerful...democrats want as many people as possible to vote...and this is why they are voting against this photo id...this is just another classic example of republicans trying to break the law to change it...classy bunch of guys they are...soooooo classy

 

In the 2004 Presidential Election more people voted than in any other election, so tell me who won?

i hate be captain obvious here...but A. im a democrat and i didnt vote for kerry(didnt vote for bush either) B. we have more people in this country than ever before C. do we need another reminder that W. should have never been pres in first place? or should I start in again on how badly his administration has been...

 

:rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Say I am poor and I don't have a driver's liscense and I'm black. I have a valid voter card and the only photo ID I have is an old high school ID card from a couple years ago. I'm one of the many, many poor black people that Democrats comb neighborhoods for to give them a ride to their local polls.

 

The person working the desk at the local poll knows that I'm part of a van full of poor black people that the Democrats drove over.

 

I'm turned away from the polls.

 

There is a much greater risk of a situation like this happening if this bill is passed

 

I say screw this bill. I'd rather have an absolutely miniscule amount of fraudulent votes than to have many times more poor people turned away from the polls.

 

Thats the exact disgusting reason why Democrats don't want this to pass. Democrats basically use a race for votes and herd them like mindless cattle to vote. Disgusting.

 

One of the most racist things in this country is the idea that because you are black, your vote belongs to the Democratic Party.

 

Your logic makes no sense are you implying that people get turned away now because they are known to be a group of minority voters?

 

Poverty has nothing to do with anything if this were passed as cheap, photo ID cards would be distributed to those that wanted to vote. So you'd actually be letting the minority take an active part in the process instead of dumbing the process down and turning a free car ride and some McDonalds coupons into votes.

 

It's scary to me that we are going with the 'honor system' with something this big.

 

If more people were intelligent, they'd know that most poor people were Democrats, and a lot of poor people are black. Hence the Black ---> Democrat logic.

 

As far as having govt. issued photo ID cards distributed, let's see some Republican initiative on this in Congress. I'll be eating ice cream in hell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...