Johnson- Strained Tommy John Ligament?

[Hollyberry]

Girardi said that starter Josh Johnson does not have ligament damage and that his problem is muscular. Bringing Johnson back to pitch after an 82-minute rain delay earlier this month shocked the front office. He felt forearm tightness during the game and subsequently was shut down.

 

Johnson told at least one friend he had a strained Tommy John ligament, but no tear. "Strain" generally refers to muscles and tendons and "sprain" is the word associated with ligaments.

 

The diagnosis for Girardi's future with the Marlins isn't as good.

 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-spg...la-sports-front

 

Is this something we knew already or is this new news (Straining his Tommy John Ligament)? I thought it was just his lower forearm.

[JetsMania]

Just give him 5 months rest and he will be fine.

[anotherrealfan]

Girardi said that starter Josh Johnson does not have ligament damage and that his problem is muscular. Bringing Johnson back to pitch after an 82-minute rain delay earlier this month shocked the front office. He felt forearm tightness during the game and subsequently was shut down.

 

Johnson told at least one friend he had a strained Tommy John ligament, but no tear. "Strain" generally refers to muscles and tendons and "sprain" is the word associated with ligaments.

 

The diagnosis for Girardi's future with the Marlins isn't as good.

 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-spg...la-sports-front

 

Is this something we knew already or is this new news (Straining his Tommy John Ligament)? I thought it was just his lower forearm.

 

I get to work late a lot and thus I listen to the radio broadcast and catch the end of the game on TV. Thus, I get the "pleasure?" of listening to Dave Van Horn. He must have spent 10 minutes on the difference between a strain and a sprain, emphasizing the "t" and the "p",-I almost had to jump from the roof after listening to him-aaaaaaaaaaarhh.

[Admin]

The offseason will get that arm ready for 07.

[Madman81]

If I'm not mistaken, the ligament replaced by Tommy John surgery is the Ulnar collaterall ligament. That doesn't appear to be down in the forearm. As long as there is no tear, Johnson should be fine, I think, although I am far from knowledgable.

 

.

 

That is not in the forearm.

[Mauer7]

I know that the surgery takes place on the inside of the arm, near that bone that sticks out by your elbow. (sorry, if I'm not making any sense). That's where AJ Burnett's scar was.

[Big_Rob]

Let's cut him open and replace all those ligaments with baboon ligaments. Then he'll throw like 243mph.

[Mauer7]

Let's cut him open and replace all those ligaments with baboon ligaments. Then he'll throw like 243mph.

 

really? that'd be kool, it might break a few of olivo's gloves though. :confused

[Psycho Sid]

I never like seeing or hearing Tommy John next to a Marlins pitcher's name.

[PBCMarlinsFan]

I'd just like to find out the extent of the injury. I suspect it is just sore and the Marlins are playing it safe, but I have seen way too many conflicting reports. Any ways, here is what JJ had to say about the whole situation recently.

 

The front-office source refuted a report Friday that said team officials also are upset with Girardi for putting starter Josh Johnson back on the mound after an 82-minute rain delay Sept. 12 at Dolphin Stadium.

 

Johnson is out for the remainder of the season because of a sore right forearm, but the rookie said Friday the injury had nothing to do with Girardi letting him return to the mound after the long delay.

 

"That's ridiculous,'' Johnson said. "There was no way I was coming out of that game. He never said one word to me. I was avoiding him (in the clubhouse) so he couldn't tell me. I wanted to stay in the game and I felt like I was still fine to go.''

 

Johnson said Marlins players are happy with Girardi.

 

"He has been great this year. Everyone loves him,'' Johnson said.

 

Source -- http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/conte...rardi_0923.html

[83Gator]

If I'm not mistaken, the ligament replaced by Tommy John surgery is the Ulnar collaterall ligament. That doesn't appear to be down in the forearm. As long as there is no tear, Johnson should be fine, I think, although I am far from knowledgable.

 

 

 

That is not in the forearm.

 

 

I don't want to be a real killjoy, but when AJ went down in spring of 2003, it was originally forearm tightness, not a complaint about his elbow (link). An elbow problem will sometimes show with forearm symptoms. So anytime a pitcher complains about his forearm, I get scared. That being said, the fact that they're using the word "strain" not "sprain" is encouraging. They did an MRI on him, didn't they?

[TheDon]

Thanks alot, Joe. :thumbup

 

 

 

 

Uh.

 

 

 

Nevermind.

[Marlins Troll]

Thanks alot, Joe. :thumbup

 

A true Girardi fan :mischief

[fanofthefish]

Wow I hadn't realized they've named the ligament after Tommy John too. That said ask any pitcher, their arm could be hanging on with a thread and they wouldn't want to come out of a game, JJ wanted to pitch and I don't recall reading the game threads that night how crazy it was to still pitch him.

[Hollyberry]

If I'm not mistaken, the ligament replaced by Tommy John surgery is the Ulnar collaterall ligament. That doesn't appear to be down in the forearm. As long as there is no tear, Johnson should be fine, I think, although I am far from knowledgable.

 

 

 

That is not in the forearm.

 

 

I don't want to be a real killjoy, but when AJ went down in spring of 2003, it was originally forearm tightness, not a complaint about his elbow (link). An elbow problem will sometimes show with forearm symptoms. So anytime a pitcher complains about his forearm, I get scared. That being said, the fact that they're using the word "strain" not "sprain" is encouraging. They did an MRI on him, didn't they?

 

That just brightens up my day . Hopefully its something minor.

[Admin]

Thanks alot, Joe. :thumbup

 

Willie Randolph brought Oliver Perez back out after the rain delay and he seems fine.

[Mauer7]

girardi haters will always hate, and they will blame everything on him, and won't credit him for anything he's done. guess I'll have to get used to it.

[FishFan24]

Thanks alot, Joe. :thumbup

 

Willie Randolph brought Oliver Perez back out after the rain delay and he seems fine.

 

QFT and exactly what I was going to bring up.

[PBCMarlinsFan]

Girardi said that starter Josh Johnson does not have ligament damage and that his problem is muscular. Bringing Johnson back to pitch after an 82-minute rain delay earlier this month shocked the front office. He felt forearm tightness during the game and subsequently was shut down.

 

Johnson told at least one friend he had a strained Tommy John ligament, but no tear. "Strain" generally refers to muscles and tendons and "sprain" is the word associated with ligaments.

 

The diagnosis for Girardi's future with the Marlins isn't as good.

 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-spg...la-sports-front

 

Is this something we knew already or is this new news (Straining his Tommy John Ligament)? I thought it was just his lower forearm.

 

Ok, I think we now have definitive word. We can rest easier now. It is not ligament damage and in fact the report JJ told a friend he had a strained TJ ligament was in fact a lie.

 

Johnson refutes report: Rookie pitcher Josh Johnson's teammates tease him for being the most quiet guy in the clubhouse. But on Saturday, he spoke out to refute a published report that said he told a friend he had a strained elbow ligament.

 

"I never said that to anyone,'' said Johnson, who is out for the rest of the year with a right forearm strain.

 

Girardi on Friday also spoke out to clarify that Johnson doesn't have any ligament damage, which could develop into a serious injury.

 

"Josh Johnson has a strained forearm muscle," Girardi said. "A strain is a muscle, a sprain is a ligament. And I don't want the people in South Florida being concerned about if he has ligament damage."

 

Source -- http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/conte...notes_0924.html

[CantCatchMe]

Thanks alot, Joe. :thumbup

 

Willie Randolph brought Oliver Perez back out after the rain delay and he seems fine.

 

1. Oliver Perez shouldn't even be at the major league level. He could have dropped dead on the mound and the Mets wouldn't have cared. Johnson was such a bright spot in the Marlins rotation that he should have had his own bodyguard.

2. Perez is a veteran with more experience and is used to throwing more innings. Johnson is young and has a promising career ahead of him. Do we really need Girardi to ruin his arm like Torborg did with Burnett?

3. Randolph isn't a good manager.

 

1) Well, as one of those professional sports reprters you love to diss said, this kind of complaint is part of a :

 

festering climate that has led to Girardi being second-guessed over nonsense.

 

Like reinserting Josh Johnson after a rain delay causing the strained arm that shelved him the last two weeks of the season. Please. A healthy young arm had thrown only 17 pitches before the delay, in a game that hugely needed to be a win. The Mets also reinserted their starting pitcher that day, by the way.

 

So, we'll count you as on the side of nonsense. Baseball people, and orthopedic surgeons, know it is not a problem for a pitcher to return after a rain delay. Do you have any different information, or just your "opinion?"

 

2) Beckett's arm is ruined? I saw him the other day and his fastball hit 96. Again, do you have any facts to back up your statement? As far as anyone else knows, Beckett's arm is fine. And even if you could prove otherwise, how do you know it's Torborg's fault?

 

3) Randolph's team is tied FOR THE BEST RECORD IN BASEBALL. Is it your position he had nothing to do with that? Anyone could have done the same? If your boy was manager their record would be better?

 

4) Are you alleging that Randolph was intentionally jeopardizing Perez's health? Can you provide factual support for that opinion?

[Ramp]

Thanks alot, Joe. :thumbup

 

Willie Randolph brought Oliver Perez back out after the rain delay and he seems fine.

 

1. Oliver Perez shouldn't even be at the major league level. He could have dropped dead on the mound and the Mets wouldn't have cared. Johnson was such a bright spot in the Marlins rotation that he should have had his own bodyguard.

2. Perez is a veteran with more experience and is used to throwing more innings. Johnson is young and has a promising career ahead of him. Do we really need Girardi to ruin his arm like Torborg did with Burnett?

3. Randolph isn't a good manager.

 

1) Well, as one of those professional sports reprters you love to diss said, this kind of complaint is part of a :

 

festering climate that has led to Girardi being second-guessed over nonsense.

 

Like reinserting Josh Johnson after a rain delay causing the strained arm that shelved him the last two weeks of the season. Please. A healthy young arm had thrown only 17 pitches before the delay, in a game that hugely needed to be a win. The Mets also reinserted their starting pitcher that day, by the way.

 

So, we'll count you as on the side of nonsense. Baseball people, and orthopedic surgeons, know it is not a problem for a pitcher to return after a rain delay. Do you have any different information, or just your "opinion?"

 

2) Beckett's arm is ruined? I saw him the other day and his fastball hit 96. Again, do you have any facts to back up your statement? As far as anyone else knows, Beckett's arm is fine. And even if you could prove otherwise, how do you know it's Torborg's fault?

 

3) Randolph's team is tied FOR THE BEST RECORD IN BASEBALL. Is it your position he had nothing to do with that? Anyone could have done the same? If your boy was manager their record would be better?

 

4) Are you alleging that Randolph was intentionally jeopardizing Perez's health? Can you provide factual support for that opinion?

Baseball people like Mike Hill and Dan Jennings who were furious that Johnson was being put back in? Or baseball people like Greg Cote? lol

 

he said Burnett, not Beckett

 

and Willie Randolph is a terrible manager.

[TheDon]

Thanks alot, Joe. :thumbup

 

Willie Randolph brought Oliver Perez back out after the rain delay and he seems fine.

 

1. Oliver Perez shouldn't even be at the major league level. He could have dropped dead on the mound and the Mets wouldn't have cared. Johnson was such a bright spot in the Marlins rotation that he should have had his own bodyguard.

2. Perez is a veteran with more experience and is used to throwing more innings. Johnson is young and has a promising career ahead of him. Do we really need Girardi to ruin his arm like Torborg did with Burnett?

3. Randolph isn't a good manager.

 

 

 

 

Wow.

 

 

You will climb any mountain, swim the deepest oceans, and say anything to support your holy crusade against Joe Girardi.

 

 

Luckily for Girardi he will be managing a big league club next year as you start a new second guess fest/manager bash against the 2007 manager of the Marlins.

[CantCatchMe]

Thanks alot, Joe. :thumbup

 

Willie Randolph brought Oliver Perez back out after the rain delay and he seems fine.

 

1. Oliver Perez shouldn't even be at the major league level. He could have dropped dead on the mound and the Mets wouldn't have cared. Johnson was such a bright spot in the Marlins rotation that he should have had his own bodyguard.

2. Perez is a veteran with more experience and is used to throwing more innings. Johnson is young and has a promising career ahead of him. Do we really need Girardi to ruin his arm like Torborg did with Burnett?

3. Randolph isn't a good manager.

 

1) Well, as one of those professional sports reprters you love to diss said, this kind of complaint is part of a :

 

festering climate that has led to Girardi being second-guessed over nonsense.

 

Like reinserting Josh Johnson after a rain delay causing the strained arm that shelved him the last two weeks of the season. Please. A healthy young arm had thrown only 17 pitches before the delay, in a game that hugely needed to be a win. The Mets also reinserted their starting pitcher that day, by the way.

 

So, we'll count you as on the side of nonsense. Baseball people, and orthopedic surgeons, know it is not a problem for a pitcher to return after a rain delay. Do you have any different information, or just your "opinion?"

 

2) Beckett's arm is ruined? I saw him the other day and his fastball hit 96. Again, do you have any facts to back up your statement? As far as anyone else knows, Beckett's arm is fine. And even if you could prove otherwise, how do you know it's Torborg's fault?

 

3) Randolph's team is tied FOR THE BEST RECORD IN BASEBALL. Is it your position he had nothing to do with that? Anyone could have done the same? If your boy was manager their record would be better?

 

4) Are you alleging that Randolph was intentionally jeopardizing Perez's health? Can you provide factual support for that opinion?

Baseball people like Mike Hill and Dan Jennings who were furious that Johnson was being put back in? Or baseball people like Greg Cote? lol

 

he said Burnett, not Beckett

 

and Willie Randolph is a terrible manager.

 

1)Sorry for the Burnett/Beckett typo, I was trying to do 2 things at once, and those names have too many letters in common.

 

Last I checked, Burnett was fine. 26ks in his last 22 innings, not a sign of a "ruined" arm. So, do you or Pinguino have info showing that despite his recent performances his arm is "ruined?". If so, do you think Torborg is at fault? (He was Loria's hand-picked manager in Montreal and later here by the way. So according to you Loria brought the Marlins a manager that ruins pitchers' arms!)

 

2) I know a few baseball people i nvolved with pitchers and their injuries and they all, to a man, have laughed at the idea that after 17 pitches Johnson should not have returned. What is he, a ballerina? At any rate, are you aware of anyone with any credentials to back up that opinion? I hate to criticize Mike or Dan, even if they made such a comment (assuming your referring to the Marlins-related guys I know), but come on, Dan's background is in scouting, for gosh sakes, not in orthopedics.

 

Putting a pitcher back in after a rain delay is done all the time and EVERYONE in baseball who deals with the medical issues regarding pitchers has no objection so long as there is no other reason to stop him aside from the rain delay (pain, ineffectiveness, etc.). A lot of pitchers -- not Josh-- hate to go back out, but it won't hurt them. That's an old wives tale. I am waiting for you Girardi bashers to come up with some medical information to the contrary but you can't.

 

3) Willie Randolph is lousy, you say? So lousy that his team is tied for the best record in baseball. What FACTS do you have to back that up? Given the record he has achieved, the burden is on you to come up with some backup to support your claim. Can you? I don't think so.

[CantCatchMe]

1. Is that from that article you doctored earlier? Why do you need someone else to tell you what to think?

The reference is to your statements not being supported. I believe people who bother others with their opinions have some obligation to provide some plausible support for them. You apparently disagree. You attack, you criticize, you call people names. but you NEVER have any facts to back yourself up. Not very convincing Pinguino.

 

2. And pitch count in the sense mentioned above isn't relevant. The process of warming-cooling-warming has a much greater toll on a pitcher's arm. That is why relievers can't throw everyday.

 

No "warming-cooling-warming does not have any such effect. You are just making things up as you go. That's total foolishness. Why do you think they keep doing it, including BOTH TEAMS in this instance. Are you really so deluded that you think you know much more than they do? If so, either back it up with facts, or quit repeating your false medical opinion. You can't because you are dead wrong.

 

3. Where did I mention Josh Beckett in my post? Please bold it in blue.

 

Explained in response to one of your Girardi-bashing buddies. Sorry for the typo, but the argument stands. Burnett is fine; no ruined arm there. And nobody has ever connected his past arm problems to any particular action by Torborg. Can you? Or do you just like to bash any manager you can.

 

4. Winning percentage has no direct correlation with managerial skill. Their front office went out and acquired very strong talent that has taken them to where they are now. Not to mention the fact that the NL East was among the weakest divisions in all of baseball for a large portion of the year.

 

So you have decided that not just a good winning percentage, but a tie for the BEST WINNING PERCENTAGE in baseball has nothing to do with the manager? And still, not one fact from you to back up your statenment that Randolph is a lousy manager. Do you realize how foolish you appear ?

 

5. Where did I even imply that Randolph would intentionally put his pitcher in harm? I'm DYING to hear the answer of this one.

 

Don't die too soon. You provide a lot of entertainment. You said that it was risky to Johnson's health to reinsert him after a rain delay. You then said, in response to the statement that the Mets also had reinserted their pitcher after the delay, that: "Oliver Perez ... could have dropped dead on the mound and the Mets wouldn't have cared."

 

So let's put 2 and 2 together so you'll stop trying to run a way from your statement. You said:

A) That it was foolish for Girardi to put Johnson back in because it would be dangerous to his arm;

B) Then you were reminded the Metshad nevertheless put Perez in also;

C) and then you simplied the reinsertion of Perez was not evidence of the wisdom of the move because, aside from the fact that he isn't in your opinion as valuable as Johnson, the Mets wouldn't have cared if Perez dropped dead on the mound.

 

So, according to you. they put Perez in, knowing it was bad for his arm. Your rationale for that was that they didn't care if he dropped dead on the mound. Sounds like an accusation of knowingly, or at least recklessly jeopardizing Perez's arm to me. But I wasn't sure. Your writing can be difficult to understan sometiimes, so I didn't do anything other than ask you to calrify. I asked "Are you alleging ," but your reading comprehension isn't good enough to follow that. Or perhaps your engaging in your customary obfuscation in order to distract us from the foolishness of your statements? So tell us what you meant, Penguino? What else could "Oliver Perez ... could have dropped dead on the mound and the Mets wouldn't have cared," mean.

 

I can't wait to see you weasel out of this one, Pinguino.

 

 

Burnett was promisng talent but this history of arm troubles will have dire consequences for the rest of his career.

 

Are you kidding me? First of all, Burnett is fine, and you are totally ignorant of his medical situation and have no grounds for such an irresponsible prediiction. But more importantly, you are running away from what you said again. At least be man enough to either retract it or try to support it. To remind you, a few minutes ago you wrote:

 

"Do we really need Girardi to ruin his arm like Torborg did with Burnett?"

 

We are still waiting for any facts at all to support your irresponsible statement. It is false, and you should be ashamed for being so ready to throw out insults and false accusation, which seems to be a habit of yours.

 

"How is it a wives tail if we have a damaged pitcher who couldn't finish the season?"

 

Medically, your statement that Josh should not have been put in after the rain delay is an old wives tail. HIs minor strained muscle had nothing to do with the rain delay, and you are falling victim to the "post hoc ergo propter hoc" logical fallacy.

 

"Facts to support why I don't like a manager? Managerial performance cannot be rated by numbers. I can only discuss in game strategy, response to personel moves, etc.?"

 

This actually is the most important thing in your recent voluminous posts (are you thinking about getting a life as I suggested, btw?). You constantly opine. insult, and accuse. But you never set out any facts to back up your positions.

 

You also think that the fact that one could argue over the selection of one of several alternatives means that if you would have done it differently, in the few of the 1000s of decisions that you are even aware of that the manager makes in 162 games, he is a bad manager. And you have no appreciation for the greater importance ofa manager's aside from in-game decisions.

 

I didn't express an opinion on Randolph. You are the one who said Randolph is a lousy manager. I don't think you have any basis for your opinion. So do you?