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Guest FlummoxedLummox

Pretty much what I've been saying the entire time. Two parties performed well this year: 1) front office management 2) on-field management. There was an irreparable rift between the two parties, so now you have to pick between the two. I have always maintained, even though Joe did well, that given a choice between the two, I pick Beinfest and Co.

 

That's not to say Loria didn't handle the situation badly. He did. But now it's time to move on.

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Pretty much what I've been saying the entire time. Two parties performed well this year: 1) front office management 2) on-field management. There was an irreparable rift between the two parties, so now you have to pick between the two. I have always maintained, even though Joe did well, that given a choice between the two, I pick Beinfest and Co.

 

That's not to say Loria didn't handle the situation badly. He did. But now it's time to move on.

 

best summary of the situation

 

/thread

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Pretty much what I've been saying the entire time. Two parties performed well this year: 1) front office management 2) on-field management. There was an irreparable rift between the two parties, so now you have to pick between the two. I have always maintained, even though Joe did well, that given a choice between the two, I pick Beinfest and Co.

 

That's not to say Loria didn't handle the situation badly. He did. But now it's time to move on.

 

best summary of the situation

 

/thread

I disagree... I happen to think Joe Girardi is what they once said about Ty Willingham at Notre Dame

 

from Sunday to Friday, he's a fantastic coach, but come gametime, he doesnt really know what he's doing.

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Pretty much what I've been saying the entire time. Two parties performed well this year: 1) front office management 2) on-field management. There was an irreparable rift between the two parties, so now you have to pick between the two. I have always maintained, even though Joe did well, that given a choice between the two, I pick Beinfest and Co.

 

That's not to say Loria didn't handle the situation badly. He did. But now it's time to move on.

 

best summary of the situation

 

/thread

I disagree... I happen to think Joe Girardi is what they once said about Ty Willingham at Notre Dame

 

from Sunday to Friday, he's a fantastic coach, but come gametime, he doesnt really know what he's doing.

even then, he had great results. so I have to give him credit for the results

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Pretty much what I've been saying the entire time. Two parties performed well this year: 1) front office management 2) on-field management. There was an irreparable rift between the two parties, so now you have to pick between the two. I have always maintained, even though Joe did well, that given a choice between the two, I pick Beinfest and Co.

 

That's not to say Loria didn't handle the situation badly. He did. But now it's time to move on.

 

best summary of the situation

 

/thread

I disagree... I happen to think Joe Girardi is what they once said about Ty Willingham at Notre Dame

 

from Sunday to Friday, he's a fantastic coach, but come gametime, he doesnt really know what he's doing.

That is by far the best example i've heard.

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Guest FlummoxedLummox

Pretty much what I've been saying the entire time. Two parties performed well this year: 1) front office management 2) on-field management. There was an irreparable rift between the two parties, so now you have to pick between the two. I have always maintained, even though Joe did well, that given a choice between the two, I pick Beinfest and Co.

 

That's not to say Loria didn't handle the situation badly. He did. But now it's time to move on.

 

best summary of the situation

 

/thread

I disagree... I happen to think Joe Girardi is what they once said about Ty Willingham at Notre Dame

 

from Sunday to Friday, he's a fantastic coach, but come gametime, he doesnt really know what he's doing. I also agree with that. He made some unfathomable decisions as in-game manager. Given the bottom line results, though, I still maintain that Joe did well -- inasmuch as preparing the team and instilling a feeling of legitimacy. From the outset of the season, he said the goal was to win the World Series. He wanted to make sure this team was here to play. And they were.

 

PS: Love the stonecutters insignia

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Pretty much what I've been saying the entire time. Two parties performed well this year: 1) front office management 2) on-field management. There was an irreparable rift between the two parties, so now you have to pick between the two. I have always maintained, even though Joe did well, that given a choice between the two, I pick Beinfest and Co.

 

That's not to say Loria didn't handle the situation badly. He did. But now it's time to move on.

 

best summary of the situation

 

/thread

I disagree... I happen to think Joe Girardi is what they once said about Ty Willingham at Notre Dame

 

from Sunday to Friday, he's a fantastic coach, but come gametime, he doesnt really know what he's doing.

 

I don't disagree, but I have a hard time saying anyone would have done a better job with this team this year.

 

The talent just wasn't there in the bullpen to help us win consistently. Tank wore down, so did Borowski and the rest of the guys were a coin-flip. And really, the bullpen was all that was holding us back down the stretch and we saw that first hand. It wasn't the bunting, it wasn't Amezaga it was the bullpen, and Girardi has no say over the composition of the bullpen, just the order in which it's used, and let's be honest, talent below league average is talent below league average no matter how you shuffle it.

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Pretty much what I've been saying the entire time. Two parties performed well this year: 1) front office management 2) on-field management. There was an irreparable rift between the two parties, so now you have to pick between the two. I have always maintained, even though Joe did well, that given a choice between the two, I pick Beinfest and Co.

 

That's not to say Loria didn't handle the situation badly. He did. But now it's time to move on.

 

best summary of the situation

 

/thread

I disagree... I happen to think Joe Girardi is what they once said about Ty Willingham at Notre Dame

 

from Sunday to Friday, he's a fantastic coach, but come gametime, he doesnt really know what he's doing.

 

I beg to differ. I think he was great considering it being his first time.

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Pretty much what I've been saying the entire time. Two parties performed well this year: 1) front office management 2) on-field management. There was an irreparable rift between the two parties, so now you have to pick between the two. I have always maintained, even though Joe did well, that given a choice between the two, I pick Beinfest and Co.

 

That's not to say Loria didn't handle the situation badly. He did. But now it's time to move on.

 

best summary of the situation

 

/thread

I disagree... I happen to think Joe Girardi is what they once said about Ty Willingham at Notre Dame

 

from Sunday to Friday, he's a fantastic coach, but come gametime, he doesnt really know what he's doing.

 

I don't disagree, but I have a hard time saying anyone would have done a better job with this team this year.

 

The talent just wasn't there in the bullpen to help us win consistently. Tank wore down, so did Borowski and the rest of the guys were a coin-flip. And really, the bullpen was all that was holding us back down the stretch and we saw that first hand. It wasn't the bunting, it wasn't Amezaga it was the bullpen, and Girardi has no say over the composition of the bullpen, just the order in which it's used, and let's be honest, talent below league average is talent below league average no matter how you shuffle it.

 

 

 

 

 

Best breakdown of the season in terms of Girardi's management and its effect on outcomes of games.

 

This is what I have been screaming about all year.

 

 

 

Well done Swift.

 

:thumbup

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Pretty much what I've been saying the entire time. Two parties performed well this year: 1) front office management 2) on-field management. There was an irreparable rift between the two parties, so now you have to pick between the two. I have always maintained, even though Joe did well, that given a choice between the two, I pick Beinfest and Co.

 

That's not to say Loria didn't handle the situation badly. He did. But now it's time to move on.

 

best summary of the situation

 

/thread

I disagree... I happen to think Joe Girardi is what they once said about Ty Willingham at Notre Dame

 

from Sunday to Friday, he's a fantastic coach, but come gametime, he doesnt really know what he's doing.

 

I don't disagree, but I have a hard time saying anyone would have done a better job with this team this year.

 

The talent just wasn't there in the bullpen to help us win consistently. Tank wore down, so did Borowski and the rest of the guys were a coin-flip. And really, the bullpen was all that was holding us back down the stretch and we saw that first hand. It wasn't the bunting, it wasn't Amezaga it was the bullpen, and Girardi has no say over the composition of the bullpen, just the order in which it's used, and let's be honest, talent below league average is talent below league average no matter how you shuffle it.

 

 

 

 

 

Best breakdown of the season in terms of Girardi's management and its effect on outcomes of games.

 

This is what I have been screaming about all year.

 

 

 

Well done Swift.

 

:thumbup

and then there are a few of us, who realize that he didnt exactly have The Nasty Boys in his bullpen but he still was making ther wrong decisions with which guys to pitch, night in-night out. IMO, he didnt give his team the best chance to win.

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Pretty much what I've been saying the entire time. Two parties performed well this year: 1) front office management 2) on-field management. There was an irreparable rift between the two parties, so now you have to pick between the two. I have always maintained, even though Joe did well, that given a choice between the two, I pick Beinfest and Co.

 

That's not to say Loria didn't handle the situation badly. He did. But now it's time to move on.

 

best summary of the situation

 

/thread

I disagree... I happen to think Joe Girardi is what they once said about Ty Willingham at Notre Dame

 

from Sunday to Friday, he's a fantastic coach, but come gametime, he doesnt really know what he's doing.

 

I don't disagree, but I have a hard time saying anyone would have done a better job with this team this year.

 

The talent just wasn't there in the bullpen to help us win consistently. Tank wore down, so did Borowski and the rest of the guys were a coin-flip. And really, the bullpen was all that was holding us back down the stretch and we saw that first hand. It wasn't the bunting, it wasn't Amezaga it was the bullpen, and Girardi has no say over the composition of the bullpen, just the order in which it's used, and let's be honest, talent below league average is talent below league average no matter how you shuffle it.

 

 

 

 

 

Best breakdown of the season in terms of Girardi's management and its effect on outcomes of games.

 

This is what I have been screaming about all year.

 

 

 

Well done Swift.

 

:thumbup

and then there are a few of us, who realize that he didnt exactly have The Nasty Boys in his bullpen but he still was making ther wrong decisions with which guys to pitch, night in-night out. IMO, he didnt give his team the best chance to win.

 

Co-sign

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and then there are a few of us, who realize that he didnt exactly have The Nasty Boys in his bullpen but he still was making ther wrong decisions with which guys to pitch, night in-night out. IMO, he didnt give his team the best chance to win.

 

Ain't that the truth :thumbup

Yep. I think our team is in much more capable hands with Fredi.

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Pretty much what I've been saying the entire time. Two parties performed well this year: 1) front office management 2) on-field management. There was an irreparable rift between the two parties, so now you have to pick between the two. I have always maintained, even though Joe did well, that given a choice between the two, I pick Beinfest and Co.

 

That's not to say Loria didn't handle the situation badly. He did. But now it's time to move on.

 

best summary of the situation

 

/thread

I disagree... I happen to think Joe Girardi is what they once said about Ty Willingham at Notre Dame

 

from Sunday to Friday, he's a fantastic coach, but come gametime, he doesnt really know what he's doing.

 

I don't disagree, but I have a hard time saying anyone would have done a better job with this team this year.

 

The talent just wasn't there in the bullpen to help us win consistently. Tank wore down, so did Borowski and the rest of the guys were a coin-flip. And really, the bullpen was all that was holding us back down the stretch and we saw that first hand. It wasn't the bunting, it wasn't Amezaga it was the bullpen, and Girardi has no say over the composition of the bullpen, just the order in which it's used, and let's be honest, talent below league average is talent below league average no matter how you shuffle it.

 

 

 

 

 

Best breakdown of the season in terms of Girardi's management and its effect on outcomes of games.

 

This is what I have been screaming about all year.

 

 

 

Well done Swift.

 

:thumbup

and then there are a few of us, who realize that he didnt exactly have The Nasty Boys in his bullpen but he still was making ther wrong decisions with which guys to pitch, night in-night out. IMO, he didnt give his team the best chance to win.

Agreed, how many nights was he gonna put Messanger in games where he'd give up homeruns after a couple of times go with someone new i'm not saying that there were better options but you need to change things up when something isn't working.

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Was that Boog or was it David Samson (in Boog's voice) in the opening of Boog's show going off about all the money Loria has lost and is losing and about how Loria has always spent money when money needed to be spent?

 

Boog, or David, whichever one it was, must have slept through July and August when we did nothing to improve the bullpen and the OF.

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and then there are a few of us, who realize that he didnt exactly have The Nasty Boys in his bullpen but he still was making ther wrong decisions with which guys to pitch, night in-night out. IMO, he didnt give his team the best chance to win.

 

Ain't that the truth :thumbup

Yep. I think our team is in much more capable hands with Fredi.

 

 

Do you have any grounds for that statement? After all, Fredi is a third base coach, never played in MLB, never managed in MLB (and even you'd agree managing in the minor leagues is very different).

 

Clearly, even most of the Girardi foes here admit Girardi was great at everything other than in-game management, and give him some credit for his ACTUAL performance at the MLB manager's position.

 

So what do you know about Fredi that makes you think he is more capable?

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and then there are a few of us, who realize that he didnt exactly have The Nasty Boys in his bullpen but he still was making ther wrong decisions with which guys to pitch, night in-night out. IMO, he didnt give his team the best chance to win.

 

Ain't that the truth :thumbup

Yep. I think our team is in much more capable hands with Fredi.

 

 

Do you have any grounds for that statement? After all, Fredi is a third base coach, never played in MLB, never managed in MLB (and even you'd agree managing in the minor leagues is very different).

 

Clearly, even most of the Girardi foes here admit Girardi was great at everything other than in-game management, and give him some credit for his ACTUAL performance at the MLB manager's position.

 

So what do you know about Fredi that makes you think he is more capable?

Girardi = absolutely zero head coach experience on ANY level, and very little experience even as a bench coach

 

Fredi = experience as a head coach in the minors (and he even has more experience as an MLB assistant coach).

 

I don't think it is that hard to see that at least this guy has SOME head coaching experience. I'm not saying he is going to be a world beater...but he should be a bit more prepared for the job than Girardi. Minor league experience in not MLB experience...but it counts. And, if Girardi would have had some minor league head coaching experience prior to his time with the Fish, maybe he would have learned not to tick off the GM and the owner.

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Pretty much what I've been saying the entire time. Two parties performed well this year: 1) front office management 2) on-field management. There was an irreparable rift between the two parties, so now you have to pick between the two. I have always maintained, even though Joe did well, that given a choice between the two, I pick Beinfest and Co.

 

That's not to say Loria didn't handle the situation badly. He did. But now it's time to move on.

 

best summary of the situation

 

/thread

I disagree... I happen to think Joe Girardi is what they once said about Ty Willingham at Notre Dame

 

from Sunday to Friday, he's a fantastic coach, but come gametime, he doesnt really know what he's doing.

 

This is why I give credit to the assistant coaches before Girardi. Kranitz, Perry Hill, etc.

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Pretty much what I've been saying the entire time. Two parties performed well this year: 1) front office management 2) on-field management. There was an irreparable rift between the two parties, so now you have to pick between the two. I have always maintained, even though Joe did well, that given a choice between the two, I pick Beinfest and Co.

 

That's not to say Loria didn't handle the situation badly. He did. But now it's time to move on.

 

best summary of the situation

 

/thread

I disagree... I happen to think Joe Girardi is what they once said about Ty Willingham at Notre Dame

 

from Sunday to Friday, he's a fantastic coach, but come gametime, he doesnt really know what he's doing.

 

I don't disagree, but I have a hard time saying anyone would have done a better job with this team this year.

 

The talent just wasn't there in the bullpen to help us win consistently. Tank wore down, so did Borowski and the rest of the guys were a coin-flip. And really, the bullpen was all that was holding us back down the stretch and we saw that first hand. It wasn't the bunting, it wasn't Amezaga it was the bullpen, and Girardi has no say over the composition of the bullpen, just the order in which it's used, and let's be honest, talent below league average is talent below league average no matter how you shuffle it.

 

 

 

 

 

Best breakdown of the season in terms of Girardi's management and its effect on outcomes of games.

 

This is what I have been screaming about all year.

 

 

 

Well done Swift.

 

:thumbup

and then there are a few of us, who realize that he didnt exactly have The Nasty Boys in his bullpen but he still was making ther wrong decisions with which guys to pitch, night in-night out. IMO, he didnt give his team the best chance to win.

 

You can improve a bad bullpen by using the right pitchers at the right time. The 2003 team didn't have much talent in the bullpen either.

 

Fox, Urbina, Looper >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tank, Borowski.

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2003:

Looper ERA 3.68 BAA .264

Urbina ERA 2.81 BAA .204

Fox ERA 3.12 BAA .224

 

2006:

Tankersley ERA 2.85 BAA .228

Borowski ERA 3.75 BAA .235

 

I'd say you are greatly exaggerating. Looper and Borowski were both "the guys" for most of their respective seasons and Borowski was clearly better. Fox and Tankersley are essentially the same I suppose.

 

Getting Urbina was a nice pickup but I still had little faith in that guy. His defense bailed him out quite a bit and does game 1 of the NLCS ring a bell?

 

While McKeon had a little more to work with it certainly wasn't by a mide margin. If Girardi knew what he was doing he could have maximized the talent available to him.

 

 

Huh?

 

The best pitcher in either bullpen played in 2003, and that bullpen was 3 deep.

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Pretty much what I've been saying the entire time. Two parties performed well this year: 1) front office management 2) on-field management. There was an irreparable rift between the two parties, so now you have to pick between the two. I have always maintained, even though Joe did well, that given a choice between the two, I pick Beinfest and Co.

 

That's not to say Loria didn't handle the situation badly. He did. But now it's time to move on.

 

best summary of the situation

 

/thread

I disagree... I happen to think Joe Girardi is what they once said about Ty Willingham at Notre Dame

 

from Sunday to Friday, he's a fantastic coach, but come gametime, he doesnt really know what he's doing.

He was a rookie MLB manager and guess what the Marlins have again, get ready for rookie mistakes.

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Pretty much what I've been saying the entire time. Two parties performed well this year: 1) front office management 2) on-field management. There was an irreparable rift between the two parties, so now you have to pick between the two. I have always maintained, even though Joe did well, that given a choice between the two, I pick Beinfest and Co.

 

That's not to say Loria didn't handle the situation badly. He did. But now it's time to move on.

 

best summary of the situation

 

/thread

I disagree... I happen to think Joe Girardi is what they once said about Ty Willingham at Notre Dame

 

from Sunday to Friday, he's a fantastic coach, but come gametime, he doesnt really know what he's doing.

He was a rookie MLB manager and guess what the Marlins have again, get ready for rookie mistakes.

 

Nope, this guy actually has managing experience at lower levels. Something Girardi didn't.

 

Gonzo made those rookie mistakes long ago and learned from them.

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Pretty much what I've been saying the entire time. Two parties performed well this year: 1) front office management 2) on-field management. There was an irreparable rift between the two parties, so now you have to pick between the two. I have always maintained, even though Joe did well, that given a choice between the two, I pick Beinfest and Co.

 

That's not to say Loria didn't handle the situation badly. He did. But now it's time to move on.

 

best summary of the situation

 

/thread

I disagree... I happen to think Joe Girardi is what they once said about Ty Willingham at Notre Dame

 

from Sunday to Friday, he's a fantastic coach, but come gametime, he doesnt really know what he's doing.

even then, he had great results. so I have to give him credit for the results

 

 

so did Ty in his first year in South Bend.

 

 

 

Pretty much what I've been saying the entire time. Two parties performed well this year: 1) front office management 2) on-field management. There was an irreparable rift between the two parties, so now you have to pick between the two. I have always maintained, even though Joe did well, that given a choice between the two, I pick Beinfest and Co.

 

That's not to say Loria didn't handle the situation badly. He did. But now it's time to move on.

 

best summary of the situation

 

/thread

I disagree... I happen to think Joe Girardi is what they once said about Ty Willingham at Notre Dame

 

from Sunday to Friday, he's a fantastic coach, but come gametime, he doesnt really know what he's doing.

He was a rookie MLB manager and guess what the Marlins have again, get ready for rookie mistakes.

 

 

 

let's put it this way.

 

Girardi was making the same dumb mistakes in September, he was making in April. If he were a player making the same dumb mistakes toward the end of his rookie year, he wouldnt be starting if he were a starter or on the roster if a reserve. You have to show improvement and thats something Girardi never really did. He was in over his head and only got the job due to this 'reputation' he developed at some point. It was a roll of the dice and Joe really needs to spend some time in the minors learning the finer points of managing a big league club.

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