Crist, legislators support tax help for Florida's sports teams

[BasesLoadedWalk]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/sou...-home-headlines

 

Crist, legislators support tax help for Florida's sports teams

 

By Linda Kleindienst and Sarah Talalay

South Florida Sun-Sentinel

Posted February 2 2007

 

Tallahassee ? State taxpayers could foot the bill for up to $240 million worth of stadium construction and renovations for South Florida's four pro sports teams under a plan that has won a preliminary nod from Gov. Charlie Crist and legislative leaders.

 

"I think it is an economic development issue. I think it is important these major league teams stay within the state of Florida," Crist, who once served as general counsel for Minor League Baseball, said Thursday.

 

"We need to continue to nurture [the teams]," he said. "They provide jobs for an awful lot of hardworking people throughout our state."

 

Crist three weeks ago signaled his support of a plan to help the Florida Marlins build a new baseball stadium in downtown Miami. But he now appears ready to back a much more ambitious proposal to help all nine of the state's professional sports franchises -- at a potential cost of $540 million in state tax dollars.

 

State law allows each team, except the Miami Dolphins, to apply to keep $2 million of the sales tax they generate each year for 30 years, for a total of $60 million. The tax rebate idea was designed to lure new sports teams to Florida and was put in place long after the Dolphins were founded.

 

Eight teams, including the Florida Marlins, Miami Heat and Florida Panthers, already have qualified -- but two Tampa area lawmakers are spearheading a drive at the behest of the Tampa Bay Lightning hockey team to let teams seek a second $60 million to help renovate aging stadiums.

 

"These facilities, structurally they're very sound for 50 years or more. But economically they need continuous updates and maintenance and all kinds of capital improvements," said Paul Davis, vice president and general counsel of the Lightning. "We think it's fair and makes good economic sense to all the teams to provide this giveback."

 

The plan, which would require the application for funds be made by a city or county that owns the facility or the land on which it is located, opens the door for the Dolphins because the team's stadium is built on county-owned land.

 

The Marlins want the extra money to help build a new ballpark in downtown Miami. Miami-Dade County, the city of Miami and Major League Baseball officials have expressed optimism about completing a deal to finance a nearly $500 million stadium north of the county government center, just east of Interstate 95 and only a few blocks from Miami Arena.

 

Dolphins owner H. Wayne Huizenga is spending $250 million for a major renovation of the 20-year-old Dolphin Stadium, including expanding concourses and adding bars, restaurants and lounges.

 

"The more facilities expand and renovate, the more competitive they are to continue to generate major events that generate major dollars for the state of Florida," said Ron Book, a lobbyist for the Miami Dolphins and Dolphins Stadium.

 

Huizenga has been frozen out in his previous attempts to rewrite state law to help the Dolphins because, as the Marlins' original owner, he received a $60 million tax break from the state to help renovate his football stadium to accommodate baseball.

 

And the Marlins, despite being under new ownership, have had no luck in getting state help for a new stadium because the team benefited from the tax break that Huizenga won in 1991.

 

The legislative proposal by Sen. Mike Fasano, R-New Port Richey, a close ally of Crist's, and Rep. Trey Traviesa, R-Tampa, would require teams to disclose how the money is used and mandates they repay the state if the team moves.

 

"I wanted to make sure any bill we filed had the guarantees to the taxpayers, making sure the dollars were accounted for and spent in the fashion they should be spent," Fasano said.

 

While no one can yet predict the fate of the proposal, House Speaker Marco Rubio and Senate President Ken Pruitt are supportive.

 

"I personally support it. I personally will vote for it," said Rubio, R-West Miami. "But I am not guaranteeing passage of it. Members are going to decide how they want to vote on it."

 

House Democratic Leader Dan Gelber warned that handing out large tax breaks to benefit profitable sports teams may have a hard time getting support when the state has unmet budget needs, especially in education and social services.

 

"I think it's going to be a heavy lift to convince many of us this is the best way to spend taxpayer dollars," said Gelber, D-Miami Beach. "I don't think of true tax breaks as going to team owners, I think of them going to people. There should be a moment of pause."

 

Staff writers Anthony Man and Peter Franceschina contributed to this report.

 

Linda Kleindienst can be reached at [email protected] or 850-224-6214.

[Out of the Past]

Charlie is on a roll spending money with his recent proposals like this one and the one for the new voting machines for 13 counties and the insurance "fix" fiasco that will bankrupt the state if we get hit by a major hurricane and his proposal to revise the current property tax scheme.

[pierremvp1]

Charlie is on a roll spending money with his recent proposals like this one and the one for the new voting machines for 13 counties and the insurance "fix" fiasco that will bankrupt the state if we get hit by a major hurricane and his proposal to revise the current property tax scheme.

I think the recent actions that Crist and the legislature have proposed or passed make sense. The voting machine fix is a no-brainer. It's a relatively small sum to pay for ensuring a greater sense of faith in the vote. Not having a paper trail is like something out of a dictatorship. The proposal to revise the property tax system makes perfect sense. The present system traps too many people in their homes. A revision is necessary to allow the free market to operate more efficiently, which is a good thing. And the insurance situation needed some fix. What passed was a reasonable stopgap measure that will improve the overall economic health of the state. It would not cause a bankruptcy unless the state got hit by multiple category 5 hurricanes that made a direct hit on Miami/Ft. Lauderdale or the Tampa/Orlando corridor. It's a reasonable stopgap measure. The only proposal that's questionable is the idea of giving a multi-million dollar tax break to multi-millionaires, for a sport that less than 1% of the populace cares about.

[Out of the Past]

Charlie is on a roll spending money with his recent proposals like this one and the one for the new voting machines for 13 counties and the insurance "fix" fiasco that will bankrupt the state if we get hit by a major hurricane and his proposal to revise the current property tax scheme.

I think the recent actions that Crist and the legislature have proposed or passed make sense. The voting machine fix is a no-brainer. It's a relatively small sum to pay for ensuring a greater sense of faith in the vote. Not having a paper trail is like something out of a dictatorship. The proposal to revise the property tax system makes perfect sense. The present system traps too many people in their homes. A revision is necessary to allow the free market to operate more efficiently, which is a good thing. And the insurance situation needed some fix. What passed was a reasonable stopgap measure that will improve the overall economic health of the state. It would not cause a bankruptcy unless the state got hit by multiple category 5 hurricanes that made a direct hit on Miami/Ft. Lauderdale or the Tampa/Orlando corridor. It's a reasonable stopgap measure. The only proposal that's questionable is the idea of giving a multi-million dollar tax break to multi-millionaires, for a sport that less than 1% of the populace cares about.

Voting machines - I think the counties with the paperless machines bought them after the '00 election and that was an obvious mistake. I agree these counties should get paper trail machines but I think they should pay for the machines themselves. I guess we disagree on who should pay.

 

Property Taxes - I think the current scheme is incredibly flawed and unfair and I think Charlie's proposal is a good first step in fixing the inequities so he gets a big thumbs up from me there. His proposal would cause major problems at the local governemtn level but the inequities must be fixed.

 

Property Insurance - Rates will go down a bit but they will go down because: i.) the rates charged to Citizens' customers will be artificially low; ii.) homeowners will be underinsured and iii.) the reinsurance rates charged by the state to private insurers will be artificially low. THe bottom line is Floridians will now be even bigger players in the insurance and reinsurance markets and that's unfortunate but if that's the case then at least we should charge rates based on sound actuarial assumptions and not on some arbitrary rates decided on by politicians which is what we now have. Maybe I exaggerated about bankruptcy but if we get hit many, many people will be totally screwed because they'll be underinsured and the state will be billions in the hole.

 

Stadium tax breaks - We pretty much agree on that one.

[CapeFish]

People seem to forget these stadium rebates do not cost the state anything. All it does it allow the state to increase tax revenues and then rebate $2 million to the teams for creating the additional facility improvements to reap in the extra tax revenue.

 

In other words, the State Treasury sees a net increase in revenue from this program.

[fauowls44]

Exactly. If the team leaves the state, the state gets no tax revenue. I don't see how this is any different from any other corporation getting a tax break to operate in the state. You can argue that the team only brings a limited amount of jobs or low paying jobs, but it still employs a large number of people and provides a benefit for the community. Overall, the state benefits and the teams benefit from this plan and it doesn't cost the tax payers anything.

[marlin2266]

Don't get me wrong - I want the tax rebate to go through and I think it will.

 

As with any political issue, there is another viewpoint. The other side would say that entertainmant dollars spent on the Marlins would be spent on something else if they weren't here. So, net net the state probably will lose out on some tax revenue.

 

Crist has been very positive on this, so lets hope the hurricane (and now tornado) tragedies do not divert attention and support from the tax subsidy for the Fish.

 

Everybody should continue to bombard their elected officials with emails.

[anotherrealfan]

There are, of course, many different ways to look at this. For the constant attempt to equate sports teams and the impact on a community with, for example, other businesses, it just does not work.

 

When the state and municipalities spend millions on other facilities, be it a more worthy educational venue, such as a library, then we are all on board. Yet how many of us still go to the library to check out books and research. It benefits so few, yet no one would argue against it-almost anti american to do so. Yet, are there any library message boards for library fans to chat? Do you buy library t shirts and hats and get sick over library matters, as you might do when watching Randy Messenger give up a HR in a key situation. What about the pride and joy you have when the Marlins win the world series-very uplifting. These analogies work with other businesses and the millionaire owners.

 

The fact that baseball is a business is overshadowed by the value and the aspect that, as fans, we ultimately watch the game and see it as a sport and a major component of our community. By helping keep a franchise, you are not helping a millionaire owner (and his pervert stepson) you are helping a community keep, what other communities around the country recognize, a part of the fabric of the community. All you need to do is look at the cost to other communities who have let their teams leave and how much they paid to get a new team, once is became evident what was lost. Ask the city of Baltimore, Houston (who not only paid big bucks to get a new NFL franchise) but realized they better do something or they would lose the Astros, ask Cleveland.

 

A new stadium is for the community, even the majority who do not go to games, just as much as a library is, trees in the medians, a performing arts center and on and on. You may argue against the use of public money for these venues but when any one of you go to another city that has modern, beautiful new facilities, you come back and home and rave about how beautiful that other city is. You do not thing about that new facility as helping a millionaire-you equate it to the city you visited. WELL, S. Florida has even more reason to have the facilities than other places, given that we are the destination of millions of visitors.

Just look around this weekend-think about all the people from all over the world visiting-think about all the public money spent on all the things that go into a community that can host an event like this-and then I could argue how much better that money would have been spent if it went into schools, lowering insurance, property taxes, police protections etc. It is all part of the balance of living, working and playing in a major league city-versus some Podunk wanna be.

 

Thank you my fellow citizens.

[Shaq-Man]

People seem to forget these stadium rebates do not cost the state anything. All it does it allow the state to increase tax revenues and then rebate $2 million to the teams for creating the additional facility improvements to reap in the extra tax revenue.

 

In other words, the State Treasury sees a net increase in revenue from this program.

That's only if the alternative to not getting the rebate is the team leaving the state.

 

Of course that wouldn't happen, so in effect, it is a $2 million annual subsidy.

 

Not that I mind...the subsidy would serve the public interest, and I support it.

 

 

 

The only proposal that's questionable is the idea of giving a multi-million dollar tax break to multi-millionaires, for a sport that less than 1% of the populace cares about.

I can't think of any proposal that fits that description.

[fanfish]

There are, of course, many different ways to look at this. For the constant attempt to equate sports teams and the impact on a community with, for example, other businesses, it just does not work.

 

When the state and municipalities spend millions on other facilities, be it a more worthy educational venue, such as a library, then we are all on board. Yet how many of us still go to the library to check out books and research. It benefits so few, yet no one would argue against it-almost anti american to do so. Yet, are there any library message boards for library fans to chat? Do you buy library t shirts and hats and get sick over library matters, as you might do when watching Randy Messenger give up a HR in a key situation. What about the pride and joy you have when the Marlins win the world series-very uplifting. These analogies work with other businesses and the millionaire owners.

 

The fact that baseball is a business is overshadowed by the value and the aspect that, as fans, we ultimately watch the game and see it as a sport and a major component of our community. By helping keep a franchise, you are not helping a millionaire owner (and his pervert stepson) you are helping a community keep, what other communities around the country recognize, a part of the fabric of the community. All you need to do is look at the cost to other communities who have let their teams leave and how much they paid to get a new team, once is became evident what was lost. Ask the city of Baltimore, Houston (who not only paid big bucks to get a new NFL franchise) but realized they better do something or they would lose the Astros, ask Cleveland.

 

A new stadium is for the community, even the majority who do not go to games, just as much as a library is, trees in the medians, a performing arts center and on and on. You may argue against the use of public money for these venues but when any one of you go to another city that has modern, beautiful new facilities, you come back and home and rave about how beautiful that other city is. You do not thing about that new facility as helping a millionaire-you equate it to the city you visited. WELL, S. Florida has even more reason to have the facilities than other places, given that we are the destination of millions of visitors.

Just look around this weekend-think about all the people from all over the world visiting-think about all the public money spent on all the things that go into a community that can host an event like this-and then I could argue how much better that money would have been spent if it went into schools, lowering insurance, property taxes, police protections etc. It is all part of the balance of living, working and playing in a major league city-versus some Podunk wanna be.

 

Thank you my fellow citizens.

 

I could not agree with you more!

You have very eloquently expressed what most Marlins fans feel when we read articles opposing the tax rebate.

You should save this and send it to anyone who argues against it.

[CapeFish]

That's only if the alternative to not getting the rebate is the team leaving the state.

 

Of course that wouldn't happen, so in effect, it is a $2 million annual subsidy.

 

Not that I mind...the subsidy would serve the public interest, and I support it.

 

Actually no,

 

Imagine if the Jaguars hadn't had their rebate. Sure Jacksonville would have built Alltel Stadium up from what was the Gator Bowl, and the team would exist....but the extra money let them make improvements that allowed them to bid for and win a Super Bowl.

 

Basically, the extra subsidy let them compete and win an event which brings tons of tax revenue independent of the team.

 

Same can be true for the AmericanAirlines Arena when the HEAT Group hosted a major Microsoft Conference there, at the Miami Beach Convention Center, and at the Coconut Grove Convention Center back around 2000 or so. That brought in tons of dollars and the extra additions the HEAT Group made to the arena (including the Theatre addition) and associated conference rooms, let them win the bid for this huge conference.

 

The Marlins Ballpark could easily bring a MLB All Star Game, a World Baseball Classic final, an NCAA Final Four, and even an additional bowl game to Miami. Plus future Super Bowl host committees could use the facility to host even larger events than they can fit at any other facility.

[Eddie Altamonte]

That's only if the alternative to not getting the rebate is the team leaving the state.

 

Of course that wouldn't happen, so in effect, it is a $2 million annual subsidy.

 

Not that I mind...the subsidy would serve the public interest, and I support it.

 

Actually no,

 

Imagine if the Jaguars hadn't had their rebate. Sure Jacksonville would have built Alltel Stadium up from what was the Gator Bowl, and the team would exist....but the extra money let them make improvements that allowed them to bid for and win a Super Bowl.

 

Basically, the extra subsidy let them compete and win an event which brings tons of tax revenue independent of the team.

 

Same can be true for the AmericanAirlines Arena when the HEAT Group hosted a major Microsoft Conference there, at the Miami Beach Convention Center, and at the Coconut Grove Convention Center back around 2000 or so. That brought in tons of dollars and the extra additions the HEAT Group made to the arena (including the Theatre addition) and associated conference rooms, let them win the bid for this huge conference.

 

The Marlins Ballpark could easily bring a MLB All Star Game, a World Baseball Classic final, an NCAA Final Four, and even an additional bowl game to Miami. Plus future Super Bowl host committees could use the facility to host even larger events than they can fit at any other facility.

Maybe the Olympics as well

[CapeFish]

Maybe the Olympics as well

Maybe.....the Florida 2012 bid was a big test run for that.