Jump to content


Low payroll even during construction of new stadium


fanfish
 Share

Recommended Posts

FLORIDA SPORTS BUZZ

Expect Marlins' payroll to stay low BY BARRY JACKSON

bjackson@MiamiHerald.com

T he Marlins and Miami-Dade County officials remain optimistic about completing a deal for a nearly $500 million stadium, though key steps remain -- including commission approval and the state allocating funds. (Neither is guaranteed.) But even if the stadium materializes, the payroll will remain low during construction years, president David Samson revealed Tuesday.

 

''It would not go up at all during construction,'' he said. ``Our contribution is so large, and we're responsible for overruns.''

 

If a stadium deal happens soon, the ballpark would open no earlier than 2011. ( Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis will be free agents after 2009.) When a new stadium opens, the Marlins would have an ''average major-league payroll'' if ''the demand for seats is what we hope it will be downtown,'' Samson said. Without a new stadium deal, payroll obviously would remain low.

 

Florida's 2006 big-league payroll was $18.7 million -- by far MLB's lowest -- and will end up around $25 million this season.

 

It's not unusual for teams to wait until a stadium opens before boosting payroll dramatically. ''We will only spend what our revenues are,'' Samson said. `` Jeffrey Loria will not lose another dollar operating this team. He won't take money out [either].''

 

The Marlins were stunned this winter when teams doled out obscene money to non-elite players. (Two examples: Reliever Danys Baez -- whom Florida pursued -- getting three years, $19 million from Baltimore, and Kansas City giving five years, $55 million to Gil Meche).

 

''It's the desperate ploy of certain teams to do what they believe they have to do to win, and at the end of the year, they'll all be proven wrong because only one team can win the World Series,'' Samson said, without specifying teams. ``The majority of teams waste their money on players who they dream will help them win.''

 

? Samson said a stadium deal is not imminent but ''anticipated,'' noting there has been ''the type of progress that generally ends in completed deals.'' The most likely site is downtown Miami just north of Northwest Third Street because ''the county and city were able to control that site far easier than the'' others. Hialeah has not been eliminated, but the Miami Arena site was deemed ``not feasible.''

 

Samson said getting state money ($60 million from a sales tax rebate) remains ''critical.'' The Marlins, who have increased their contribution above $210 million, appear to have a decent chance after five failed attempts in Tallahassee.

 

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

It looks like the Marlins have increased their contribution toward the new stadium. That's a good thing, but this means they will not be spending more money until they actually see the extra cash coming in when the new stadium opens.

 

That makes good business sence... but that also means that we won't be going after any proven and expensive free agents anytime soon. That also means the Cabs and Wills will be gone by 2010 or sooner. They become free agents before the stadium will be completed. So... we have four years to see what these young Marlins can do. After that who knows who will be where!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Direct result of the Marlins paying part of their contribution for construction. Pro Player and the ownership group has only so much revenue to draw from. But as we all know as Marlins fans, a low payroll does not necessarily mean a team that's not competitive or worth watching. As we should really know as Marlins fans, such teams can be World Series champions in short time when the resources are available to support them.

 

 

And if I might say to those who are annoyed by this news at all need to get their priorities straight. The first step the Marlins must make is a stadium that is profitable and ensures the team will have a home. Everything else the club can do must follow that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To those of you that are bemoaning that payroll may remain low while the stadium is under construction, would you rather the team spent $5.0M per year on a sub-.500 middle reliever to make you "feel better" (i.e. Dennys Baez!). Would you rather have the team sign a Mark Grudzulanek-type player for $3.0M so that you can say, "hey our payroll has gone up!"

 

Give me a break. If the team can be fiscally sound and competitive, then I'm happy. Isn't that what the average fan wants, guys that play to their value, or play above their value? Instead you cry and bitch because the payroll is low, and then you'd turn right around and cry and bitch if the payroll is too high and the team is 20 games under .500. That just goes to show how many of you here are completely CLUELESS about baseball or operating a business.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Come on dude. I'm not bitching about payroll being low. I think it's very smart not to sign players to ridiculous contracts and Beinfest does an excellent job of this. I'm bitching about the fact if we don't raise payroll Cabs is good as gone. I don't really care about Dontrelle. But to let a player of Cabs level leave is completely regoddamndiculous. I want this team to continue to be smart, but with things like this there is no way we keep Cabs. Not to mention Hanley will be a FA after 2011 I think and all the young pitchers (granted we do have a good amount in the minors to replace them. But when a player of Cabs level comes along. There is no replacing him and this ownership would be completely idiotic not to keep him at least through his prime. I'd like to keep Dontrelle, but probably not at the price he'd cost so that doesn't bother me as much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To those of you that are bemoaning that payroll may remain low while the stadium is under construction, would you rather the team spent $5.0M per year on a sub-.500 middle reliever to make you "feel better" (i.e. Dennys Baez!). Would you rather have the team sign a Mark Grudzulanek-type player for $3.0M so that you can say, "hey our payroll has gone up!"

 

Give me a break. If the team can be fiscally sound and competitive, then I'm happy. Isn't that what the average fan wants, guys that play to their value, or play above their value? Instead you cry and bitch because the payroll is low, and then you'd turn right around and cry and bitch if the payroll is too high and the team is 20 games under .500. That just goes to show how many of you here are completely CLUELESS about baseball or operating a business.

 

I'd rather "feel better" knowing it's possible to see Hanley Ramirez and Miguel Cabrera play in that new ballpark in 2011. That's the whole f'ing sense of urgency at this point, keep this group together.

 

I don't think anyone will bitch about the payroll being high, judging by these comments, ever. If the Marlins get the stadium, and then cry poor, it's a direct slap in the face to fans everywhere and will be the breaking point for many, myself included, and you can quote me on that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To those of you that are bemoaning that payroll may remain low while the stadium is under construction, would you rather the team spent $5.0M per year on a sub-.500 middle reliever to make you "feel better" (i.e. Dennys Baez!). Would you rather have the team sign a Mark Grudzulanek-type player for $3.0M so that you can say, "hey our payroll has gone up!"

 

Give me a break. If the team can be fiscally sound and competitive, then I'm happy. Isn't that what the average fan wants, guys that play to their value, or play above their value? Instead you cry and bitch because the payroll is low, and then you'd turn right around and cry and bitch if the payroll is too high and the team is 20 games under .500. That just goes to show how many of you here are completely CLUELESS about baseball or operating a business.

so you are happy knowing Cabrera is gone in 3 years max? Willis too? Hanley, Uggla, Johnson, Sanchez, Olsen, Jacobs, Willingham all will most likely be moved within 3 years time as well when they hit Arby?

 

come on dude.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Direct result of the Marlins paying part of their contribution for construction. Pro Player and the ownership group has only so much revenue to draw from. But as we all know as Marlins fans, a low payroll does not necessarily mean a team that's not competitive or worth watching. As we should really know as Marlins fans, such teams can be World Series champions in short time when the resources are available to support them.

And if I might say to those who are annoyed by this news at all need to get their priorities straight. The first step the Marlins must make is a stadium that is profitable and ensures the team will have a home. Everything else the club can do must follow that.

 

Darn right, I am completely at the point that I want comfort in the assurance that we will have a team. The size of the payroll is unimportant at this point-just the guarantee of keeping the Marlins for a long, long time is all I hope for at this time. THEN....... we can all conspire as to how to get better ownership and muzzle little pervert stepson.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't want to see a third firesale, plain and simple.

 

I will accept Dontrelle leaving, but Cabrera is another story. Same goes for the rest of our lineup (Hanley, Uggla, etc.)

 

I still think that this team would be much better off with another owner, one who doesn't expect this team to make money until after a stadium is built, but still wants to give this team the dollars to stay competitive until then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Beinfest is one of the best GM's around. I'm sure if he tries, he can work out a deal with Cabs. Maybe a contract where the first year pays him around 6 or 7 million and then after that, once the stadium opens up and revenue starts heading towards our way, his dollar figure goes up and up to probably 15 -20 million a year. There are ways to work around this. And I think we should wait and see what Hanley, Uggla and everyone else does this year and next before we start talking firesale. And as far as Dontrelle is concerned...I still can't believe we haven't traded him yet. There is no way we can afford him AND cabrera...and in my opinion I'd rather keep Miggy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm nervous about Samson talking so much about the stadium and future plans. He has a way to piss off people and turning a positive situation into a negative

 

I agree.

 

Although, I think that he's saying they will keep payroll low to make it sound like increasing their contribution is such a heavy burden.

 

This will probably rub people the wrong way. He should STFU.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Beinfest is one of the best GM's around. I'm sure if he tries, he can work out a deal with Cabs. Maybe a contract where the first year pays him around 6 or 7 million and then after that, once the stadium opens up and revenue starts heading towards our way, his dollar figure goes up and up to probably 15 -20 million a year. There are ways to work around this. And I think we should wait and see what Hanley, Uggla and everyone else does this year and next before we start talking firesale. And as far as Dontrelle is concerned...I still can't believe we haven't traded him yet. There is no way we can afford him AND cabrera...and in my opinion I'd rather keep Miggy.

 

Ya thats not a bad idea. Sort of like a Carlos Delgado contract where the first year was low and it increased after that. Also, if I was forced to pick between Willis and Cabrera I take Cabrera.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

sigh

 

I hate being a marlins fan

 

Then don't be.

 

You have almost 30 other teams to pick from and you're in love with everyone who wears a TB uniform so go root for them.

 

And your Cabrera supposition is false unless you can see into the future. There's lots of ways to skin a cat, for example how Pudge's deal was structured, or Leiter's, or Alex Rodriguez or Griffey's or any number of others, and that is to guarantee deferred payments in out years which is happening with almost all these big $$ contracts. You keep 2009-2011 in the $7-10 million range and spread out the differential into the out years which frankly will better suit Cabrera's financial planning in the longrun.

 

You draw the conclusions you do because you WANT the Marlins to lose Cabrera and nothing else. Grow a brain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm nervous about Samson talking so much about the stadium and future plans. He has a way to piss off people and turning a positive situation into a negative

I agree.

 

Although, I think that he's saying they will keep payroll low to make it sound like increasing their contribution is such a heavy burden.

 

This will probably rub people the wrong way. He should STFU.

Exactly.

 

Some of you don't seem to understand what's happening here; and frankly I'm a little surprised. Whether the Marlins' long-term plans make good business sense or not is not the point (In fact, I'm one of the few here who supported the idea of going young and cheap last year).

 

The point is: You don't play the media game with your cards laid on the table face up. It's called Public Relations.

 

Predictably, with just a few days before the tickets go on sale and FanFest, the Herald went fishing for any comments they could put a negative spin on and print. And they knew they could count on Samson to give them exactly what they were looking for. Sure enough, fool that he is, he took the bait.

 

All those good vibes we've been getting in recent months from positive stadium news? Flushed down the toilet.

 

And the fans who don't understand the business of baseball (believe me, Mr. Ferry, they're out there in bunches), will find yet another reason not to endorse this product. And once again, we'll have Samson to thank for that.

 

As far as I'm concerned, whoever allowed that man to come out of hiding now and start talking again deserves a warm spot in every corner of hell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Beetle, as much as I like the Marlins organization and respect them, and am often accused of being an apologist for them, I have to agree that Samson should not be the spokesperson. He may be a very bright guy but his PR sense is just awful.

 

I understand why he says the things he says but there's better, more media/fan-friendly ways of saying it. :banghead

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of you missed my point.

 

Do I want another fire sale? NO. But I also believe in some form of fiscal sanity if I were running this team. Would I love to see Cabrera stay and sign a long-term contract? YES. But I would not sign him to a contract that means paying him above "market" for those years when his production may be leaner (and hence the risk of a backloaded deal), and no matter how much I like the guy as a player nobody deserves a payday like Manny Ramirez, A-Rod, or the other upper-tier guys. A "killer-contract" like that will do nothing but hamper your roster later on in time (i.e., Mo Vaughn and the Angels!). Would I love to see Willis stay and sign a long-term contract? YES. But I sure as hell would not sign him to a deal like Barry Zito's just so that he can stay in a Marlins uniform! If that is the money that he would demand in the future, and some other team will give it to him, then you'll just have to part ways.

 

Even with a new stadium, some of these guys here now will leave because they are priced out of our the Marlins range. That is a fact of life in today's baseball. That is something I have accepted because the alternative is NO BASEBALL and that is just plain worse. Even with a new stadium, the Marlins are not going to be the Red Sox, Mets, Yankees, or Dodgers. They may not even be the Giants, Angels, or Braves.

 

A competitive balance will remain, but I hope that whatever ownership has the Marlins in, say 2015, still retains a level of fiscal sanity and does not go out and sign someone like Dennys Baez for three years, $19 million or Gil Meche for five years, $55 million. Do you see what I mean?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of you missed my point.

 

I was not suggesting he makes $10 million for three years and $30 million for three years to make up for it but like Ken Griffey's contract, the out years I was referring to were years beyond the length of the contract. Griffey gets paid until he's about 50 years old (didn't look it up exactly, but meant to make the point), long after he retires. Sign a six year contract (for example) that is paid out over ten years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is a great way to get people excited about the Marlins leading up to the completion of a new ballpark. I mean don't get me wrong, this team is going to be exciting for years to come with all of the talent that it currently has, but while everybody else in the division gets better and adds new players, the Marlins will find themselves with minor tweaks only because payroll won't allow anything bigger.

 

 

Then again, half the fun of shocking the world is knowing that you did it without having to break the bank to do it. :mischief

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not the least bit suprised even with a new stadium and new sources of revenue this ownership group does not have the financial resources to compete at the top level . I think the best we can hope for is the type of payroll we had in 04 and 05 middle of the road , bottom third , what disturbs me is not that we wont ever being going after top free agents , it is that we cant even afford the top players we do develope ....very disappointing and yes Samson should be fired because the has no business sense we are trying to get a new stadium and the little man is there to remind us that nothing will change even with a stadium guarantee. The best we can hope for is for Loria to sell the team after the a few years in the new stadium

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of you missed my point.

 

Do I want another fire sale? NO. But I also believe in some form of fiscal sanity if I were running this team. Would I love to see Cabrera stay and sign a long-term contract? YES. But I would not sign him to a contract that means paying him above "market" for those years when his production may be leaner (and hence the risk of a backloaded deal), and no matter how much I like the guy as a player nobody deserves a payday like Manny Ramirez, A-Rod, or the other upper-tier guys. A "killer-contract" like that will do nothing but hamper your roster later on in time (i.e., Mo Vaughn and the Angels!). Would I love to see Willis stay and sign a long-term contract? YES. But I sure as hell would not sign him to a deal like Barry Zito's just so that he can stay in a Marlins uniform! If that is the money that he would demand in the future, and some other team will give it to him, then you'll just have to part ways.

 

Even with a new stadium, some of these guys here now will leave because they are priced out of our the Marlins range. That is a fact of life in today's baseball. That is something I have accepted because the alternative is NO BASEBALL and that is just plain worse. Even with a new stadium, the Marlins are not going to be the Red Sox, Mets, Yankees, or Dodgers. They may not even be the Giants, Angels, or Braves.

 

A competitive balance will remain, but I hope that whatever ownership has the Marlins in, say 2015, still retains a level of fiscal sanity and does not go out and sign someone like Dennys Baez for three years, $19 million or Gil Meche for five years, $55 million. Do you see what I mean?

 

As for point A.

 

The whole point of this ballpark is that we can become a player with the big boys. It's MIAMI, not Spokane Iowa or Jackson Mississippi...MIAMI!!!! If a new ballpark flush with all the revenue chanels that a major league ballclub should be awarded, and the team is still a financial invalid, then you need to look at the capability at the top. We damn well better be hanging with the Angels, Giants, Braves, etc. We're in bigger markets then them. If Miami at its apex is competing with Kansas City and Tampa, then just fold up shop now.

 

As for point B. Teams have shown that "anticipated" revenue is just as good to them as actual revenue. Case in point? Barry Bonds with the Giants, Jim Thome with the Phillies. Both guys got huge contracts after a stadium was announced but before it was opened? Why? Because the owners of those clubs realized the draw of a baseball team is a highly competitive product, not a so-so one in a new ballpark. For any more reference, let's just look at the state of Pennsylvania. The Pirates got a new ballpark, still cried poor with guys like Giles, dealt him and now play infront of a half empty (albeit shiny and new) stadim. The Phillies? Well, they spent big before the Vet was even gone and now still reap the benefits of their spending because the product on field is great and the ballpark's a great venue. Now, should we model our business plan after the Pirates?

 

As for point C...I don't see how you can misrepresent ANYONE's desire to keep MIGUEL CABRERA and HANLEY RAMIREZ into wanting to sign the Chan Ho Park's and Gil Meche's of the world to big money contract. THE WHOLE DAMN POINT OF THIS STADIUM IS TO KEEP WHAT WE HAVE and now before a plan is announced, ground broken or a ticket presold, we're ALREADY being told that it's no longer reasonable to expect payroll to go "up" during construction, even though when the blood letting was occuring last season, Samson essentially handed a ransom note to Miami saying that a new stadium will mean things go back to the way they were.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...