TSwift25 Posted May 15, 2007 Author Share Posted May 15, 2007 Just to put it in perspective, in the National League, we're the only team with over 300 team strikeouts (326). The difference in K's between us and the second place team (41) is greater than the difference between the second and eighth place teams (29). That's just wow factor right there. If you want an even bigger WOW factor check this one out... the Cards are "first" with the fewest strikeouts with 172 and they are last in runs scored with 110. BTW, we're still 5th in runs scored and 5th in OPS. Are you suggesting then that strikeouts are meaningless? Or was that not sarcasm and instead a true "wow" factor because you just have to see that the Cards are hitting .230 as a team to understand that most of their stats are going to be putrid...however, it is surprising they're making that much contact and at the bottom of the heap so much. Pretty much. I care about scoring runs and OPS (getting on base and having good power numbers). I don't really care about what kind of outs you make when you make outs. Now that's absurd. Feast/famine can give you gaudy totals but do very little to develop consistency...or, in this case, help your win total on a consistent basis. The Cards have a low OPS and few Ks. We have a high OPS and a lot of Ks. Who do you think thas the better offense so far this season, the Marlins or the Cards? I'll take the Marlins. When your team is next to last in runs allowed you're not going to win on a consistent basis. That's our problem. We allow too many runs. The focus on the Ks is ridiculous. You also don't win if you have an almost 3:1 K:BB ratio, turn 1/4 of your plate appearances into unproductive outs and don't hit, period, with runners in scoring position. Question: would you take a leadoff triple every inning followed by a walk then three consecutive strikeouts...because that'll give you a gaudy OPS too. Go back to past seasons and look over the team rankings in OPS, runs scored and Ks. You'll find the fiollowing: -- there's a very strong correlation in team rankings in OPS and runs scored -- there's no correlation in team rankings in strikeouts and runs scored So by not answering my question, what you're saying is that strikeouts are not meaningless as the scenario I presented is unfavorable despite the high OPS number that the scenario would generate. Of course there is some relationship between OPS and runs scored, there's a reason the OPS stat was given such weight, that it gave a somewhat fair indication of an offense's ability (X number of players on base on average reaching Y base on average), but to say that strikeouts are meaningless, well, that's just silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastie Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 Whoever didnt expect bad hitting stretches when you have 3 starters hurt and your catcher playing hurt is really just trying to find reasons to complain. Given that we have the worst starting pitching in the NL and so many injuries on the offensive side I'll take our record any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricWiener Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 We have a team of walking (and in some cases idle) wounded, and it is 5th in the league in runs scored. Right now the team is out its starting 1B and CF, and has a Catcher and 3B playing injured. AS far as feast or famine is concerned, the Marlins have lost 11 games in which the team scored 3 or more runs, that is the crappy pitching, hell, 6 in which it scored 5 or more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBob27 Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 We have a team of walking (and in some cases idle) wounded, and it is 5th in the league in runs scored. Right now the team is out its starting 1B and CF, and has a Catcher and 3B playing injured. AS far as feast or famine is concerned, the Marlins have lost 11 games in which the team scored 3 or more runs, that is the crappy pitching, hell, 6 in which it scored 5 or more. I've been watching Miggy and he seems to be runing just fine. And swinging and missing. The two things that really bothered him before. My guess is that he is fine. Just in a slump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prinmemito Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 We have an above average offense with some obvious weaknesses. We strikeout too much, which means we have a hard time scoring when we're not hitting homeruns or extra bases. And every so often we make mental mistakes on the basepaths. We're still above average. By the end of the season we'll be top 4 in offense, IMO. If we can straighten out our strikeout problem and the baserunning blunders I think we can have the league's best offense by 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iowa Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 I just want to see our 8 normal starters out there together for an extended period of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSwift25 Posted May 16, 2007 Author Share Posted May 16, 2007 If we can straighten out our strikeout problem and the baserunning blunders I think we can have the league's best offense by 2008. With all due respect, there's no way that this group is the league's best offense. Get another bat to protect Miggy and I could see it, but that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prinmemito Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 If we can straighten out our strikeout problem and the baserunning blunders I think we can have the league's best offense by 2008. With all due respect, there's no way that this group is the league's best offense. Get another bat to protect Miggy and I could see it, but that's it. I didn't say it is. I said we can have the league's best offense by 2008 if fix certain problems. Personally, I don't think we need another bat protecting Miggy if we have Hanley, Uggla, Willingham, Jacobs, and Miggy all hitting 20+ homeruns. Add in 15-20 from Hermida and we've got some real boppers in the lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out of the Past Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 If we can straighten out our strikeout problem and the baserunning blunders I think we can have the league's best offense by 2008. With all due respect, there's no way that this group is the league's best offense. Get another bat to protect Miggy and I could see it, but that's it. Next year if Miguel puts up an OPS over 1.000 and if Hammer, Hanley and Hermida put up OPSs over .950 and if we get league average production from the other spots then we can certainly be the top hitting (run scoring) team in the league. There's a lot of ifs in there but the only really big if is Hermida's. I guess the Hammer's if is pretty big too but not as big as Hermida's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FlummoxedLummox Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 If we can straighten out our strikeout problem and the baserunning blunders I think we can have the league's best offense by 2008. With all due respect, there's no way that this group is the league's best offense. Get another bat to protect Miggy and I could see it, but that's it. Next year if Miguel puts up an OPS over 1.000 and if Hammer, Hanley and Hermida put up OPSs over .950 and if we get league average production from the other spots then we can certainly be the top hitting (run scoring) team in the league. There's a lot of ifs in there but the only really big if is Hermida's. I guess the Hammer's if is pretty big too but not as big as Hermida's. Asking 4 players to put up OPS's over .950 is a very tall order, Polo. The 1927 Yankees only had 2 players with OPS's greater than .950 (albeit each had an OPS ~.1250). Has there ever been a team with 4 players having an OPS greater than .950? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSwift25 Posted May 16, 2007 Author Share Posted May 16, 2007 If we can straighten out our strikeout problem and the baserunning blunders I think we can have the league's best offense by 2008. With all due respect, there's no way that this group is the league's best offense. Get another bat to protect Miggy and I could see it, but that's it. Next year if Miguel puts up an OPS over 1.000 and if Hammer, Hanley and Hermida put up OPSs over .950 and if we get league average production from the other spots then we can certainly be the top hitting (run scoring) team in the league. There's a lot of ifs in there but the only really big if is Hermida's. I guess the Hammer's if is pretty big too but not as big as Hermida's. That's not just a next year "if" that's an all time "if." That type of production wouldn't just put it at the top of the class in '08, you'd be talking about it in the same breathe as murderer's row. I mean, come on, at least have some perspective when throwing numbers out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out of the Past Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Asking 4 players to put up OPS's over .950 is a very tall order, Polo. The 1927 Yankees only had 2 players with OPS's greater than .950 (albeit each had an OPS ~.1250). Has there ever been a team with 4 players having an OPS greater than .950? If you look at them one by one it's not so unrealistic. Much of it depends on Hermida and what kind of player he'll become. Miguel - I think he's one of the elite hitters. Last year his OPS was .998. The last 3 years his OPS is about .970. He's 24 and should continue to improve. I think he's a pretty good bet to put up a 1.000 OPS or at least something very close to it in '08. Hanley - Since last year's all-star game his OPS is .949 over 449 ABs. He's 23 and and should continue to get better. I also think he's a pretty good bet to put up a .950 OPS or at least something very close to it in '08. Hammer - Last year he put up .852 and has put up .868 so far this season. I'm not sure how much he'll improve because of his age. This year I was expecting something in the low .900s out of him and that may be a more realistic number. Hermida - This one is the really big if and I really have no idea what he'll become but if he lives up to his potential, or the potential assigned to him by scouts, then he could put up the .950 OPS in '08. Off the top of my head the best hitting NL team the past few years were the '03 Braves and they had guys with 1.065, 1.023, .920 and .917. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Hammer - Last year he put up .852 and has put up .868 so far this season. I'm not sure how much he'll improve because of his age. This year I was expecting something in the low .900s out of him and that may be a more realistic number. This season vs lefties: 36ab 5hits .139/.262/.167 Last season vs lefties: 134ab 11hr .299/.411/.619 2005 Albuquerque vs lefties: 55ab 6hr .236/.334/.655 that .868 is gonna rise in a hurry once Hammer starts hitting lefties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nny Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 And what about Jacobs? When healthy, he's at the least a .900+ OPS guy against righties, the majority hand of pitchers. Both this year and in 2005 in very VERY limited ABs (22 ABs) he's done just aswell against lefties, but couldn't hit them worth sh*t last year (88 ABs). And ofcoarse, a 88 ABs > 22 ABs, so you have to lean towards he'll never hit them well over a season. Also, his last year in the minors (2005 AA), he had 106 ABs against LHP and had a .896 OPS, pointing to maybe he'll be able to hit them well. That's the last year I can find splits for (Is there another minor league split site outside of http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/ ?). Worse case scenerio and he keeps the .530 OPS he had against them last year, just keep getting a platoon guy. It's not hard to find cheap 1B's who hit left handers well. I deffinatly like how our lineup looks for 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 eh not a big fan of Jake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 You think Hammer will eventually move to 1B, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nny Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 I'd really like to see how well he does healthy over a full season. He didn't exactly have a good minor league career, but his 2003 and 2005 (injured 2004) seasons make me hope (.924 and 965 OSP respectiviely, not amazing but not bad). You normally see power increases in players in the 26-27 age range, so I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he managed to hit 35-40+ HRs next year, expecially if he hits lefties like he did in 2005. He's injury prone though which makes me ;\ And, although I realize he was a C throughout the minors so it's not like he has that much experience at first, I would love to have a better defensive first baseman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out of the Past Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 I would be happy with average 1B production out of him. I hope he does better than that but I wouldn't want to depend on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iowa Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Forget the HRs.. jake has the ability to hit 45+ doubles, which would put him at the top of the league for 1B. Add in 25 HRs and nobody should complain. Just needs to frickin stay healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 and that's a ginormous if Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iowa Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Thats fine.. but lets not act like hes incapable of swinging the bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 all I said was that I didn't like him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prinmemito Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 lets not act like hes incapable of swinging the bat. exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBob27 Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 You think Hammer will eventually move to 1B, no? This response was to Spike I believe. But... I'm not a Jake fan. And I'm not at all happy with Hammer in LF. He's had a season+ out there and still can't play the position with anything even remotely resembling consistency. I wouldn't complain about trading Jake in the off season and moving Hammer to 1B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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