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Who would in in a series 1997 team or 2003 team?


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I have to go with the 97 team. Sheffield was unbelievably good back then, and Kevin Brown was probably better in 97 than any of our pitchers in 03.

Sheffield had a pretty mediocre season if I remember correctly in 1997. In fact, most of the players on the team I seem to remember having average seasons or nothing special. Correct me if I'm wrong, though, I have a fuzzier memory from 1997 than 2003.

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I have to go with the 97 team. Sheffield was unbelievably good back then, and Kevin Brown was probably better in 97 than any of our pitchers in 03.

Sheffield had a pretty mediocre season if I remember correctly in 1997. In fact, most of the players on the team I seem to remember having average seasons or nothing special. Correct me if I'm wrong, though, I have a fuzzier memory from 1997 than 2003.

 

But they were still great players in the primes of their careers for the most part.

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I think if you stack it up by production from the season, the 2003 probably wins by a nose. Bonilla and Sheff were in all kinds of funks that year. The top two offensive players both were on the '03 team (Lowell and Lee) we know that the infield D was historically good and that the pitching staffs were more or less a wash (top heavy for '97, balanced for '03).

 

However, that '97 team was, on paper, probably the best or second best we've ever had ('05 being the other)...so, since we know games aren't played on paper...

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With the exception of alou, most guys did seem to have average/below average years. However, the 97 bullpen was incredible as were the starying pitchers. 03, the bullpen was mostly just fox and urbina late in the season and in the playoffs.

The starting pitching was probably near equal penny/beckett/pavano/willis (redman sucked in the playoffs), and brown/leiter/hernandez and of course fernandez was injured. Did saunders fill in in the WS after fernandez went down?

 

This post is me rambling, its late and im tired.

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I don't have many memories from the 97 team, because all I saw of them was a tape of the final game that my cousin lent to me...

On the other hand, the 03 team was incredible! We had a great lineup, great young guns, and a pretty good back end of the bullpen. So I'd have to go with 03 here.

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i would love to see some of those pitching duels...

 

brown vs. beckett

leiter vs. penny

levan vs. dtrain

 

there were some great pitchers on both teams...add guys that got injured like fernandez and burnett

 

in the end i feel like the 03 team would win, the 97 team played a sloppy world series and the 03 team was unstopable down the stretch

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i would love to see some of those pitching duels...

 

brown vs. beckett

leiter vs. penny

levan vs. dtrain

 

there were some great pitchers on both teams...add guys that got injured like fernandez and burnett

 

in the end i feel like the 03 team would win, the 97 team played a sloppy world series and the 03 team was unstopable down the stretch

 

Well maybe it was a sloppy world series, but do you remember how stacked the cleveland team was?

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With the exception of alou, most guys did seem to have average/below average years. However, the 97 bullpen was incredible as were the starying pitchers. 03, the bullpen was mostly just fox and urbina late in the season and in the playoffs.

The starting pitching was probably near equal penny/beckett/pavano/willis (redman sucked in the playoffs), and brown/leiter/hernandez and of course fernandez was injured. Did saunders fill in in the WS after fernandez went down?

 

This post is me rambling, its late and im tired.

 

think it was rapp

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With the exception of alou, most guys did seem to have average/below average years. However, the 97 bullpen was incredible as were the starying pitchers. 03, the bullpen was mostly just fox and urbina late in the season and in the playoffs.

The starting pitching was probably near equal penny/beckett/pavano/willis (redman sucked in the playoffs), and brown/leiter/hernandez and of course fernandez was injured. Did saunders fill in in the WS after fernandez went down?

 

This post is me rambling, its late and im tired.

 

think it was rapp

 

Rapp was dealt in July.

 

Saunders started in the World Series for Alex.

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i would love to see some of those pitching duels...

 

brown vs. beckett

leiter vs. penny

levan vs. dtrain

 

there were some great pitchers on both teams...add guys that got injured like fernandez and burnett

 

in the end i feel like the 03 team would win, the 97 team played a sloppy world series and the 03 team was unstopable down the stretch

 

Well maybe it was a sloppy world series, but do you remember how stacked the cleveland team was?

 

yea they were stacked, but the defense and pitching in 03 was outstanding and we all know that wins chamionships...you could make the case that the 03 yankees were better then the 97 indians...that lineup was sick and there pitching with clemens, petite, moose, and wells

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i would love to see some of those pitching duels...

 

brown vs. beckett

leiter vs. penny

levan vs. dtrain

 

there were some great pitchers on both teams...add guys that got injured like fernandez and burnett

 

in the end i feel like the 03 team would win, the 97 team played a sloppy world series and the 03 team was unstopable down the stretch

 

Well maybe it was a sloppy world series, but do you remember how stacked the cleveland team was?

 

yea they were stacked, but the defense and pitching in 03 was outstanding and we all know that wins chamionships...you could make the case that the 03 yankees were better then the 97 indians...that lineup was sick and there pitching with clemens, petite, moose, and wells

 

I'm not sure you could.

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i would love to see some of those pitching duels...

 

brown vs. beckett

leiter vs. penny

levan vs. dtrain

 

there were some great pitchers on both teams...add guys that got injured like fernandez and burnett

 

in the end i feel like the 03 team would win, the 97 team played a sloppy world series and the 03 team was unstopable down the stretch

 

Well maybe it was a sloppy world series, but do you remember how stacked the cleveland team was?

 

yea they were stacked, but the defense and pitching in 03 was outstanding and we all know that wins chamionships...you could make the case that the 03 yankees were better then the 97 indians...that lineup was sick and there pitching with clemens, petite, moose, and wells

 

the yankees had better pitching than the indians but the indians had

 

Manny, Jim Thome, david justice, sandy alomar, brian giles, omar vizquel and matt williams.

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Yeah, I think people forget that Thome and Williams each had like 35 HR's that year and Manny hit like .330.

 

their pitching was a different story, which is why they only won 86 games.

 

 

I just pulled up the stats...

 

 

era w L

SP Charles Nagy 4.28 15 11

SP Orel Hershiser 4.47 14 6

SP Chad Ogea 4.99 8 9

SP Bartolo Colon 5.65 4 7

SP Jaret Wright 4.38 8 3

 

 

All era's over 4.

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i would love to see some of those pitching duels...

 

brown vs. beckett

leiter vs. penny

levan vs. dtrain

 

there were some great pitchers on both teams...add guys that got injured like fernandez and burnett

 

in the end i feel like the 03 team would win, the 97 team played a sloppy world series and the 03 team was unstopable down the stretch

 

Well maybe it was a sloppy world series, but do you remember how stacked the cleveland team was?

 

yea they were stacked, but the defense and pitching in 03 was outstanding and we all know that wins chamionships...you could make the case that the 03 yankees were better then the 97 indians...that lineup was sick and there pitching with clemens, petite, moose, and wells

 

the yankees had better pitching than the indians but the indians had

 

Manny, Jim Thome, david justice, sandy alomar, brian giles, omar vizquel and matt williams.

 

 

posada, giambi, jeter, soriano, matsui, and then add in boone and williams...not a pushover either, yea the indians team was very good, i just think the 03 yankees were a little better

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Yeah, I think people forget that Thome and Williams each had like 35 HR's that year and Manny hit like .330.

 

their pitching was a different story, which is why they only won 86 games.

 

 

I just pulled up the stats...

 

 

era w L

SP Charles Nagy 4.28 15 11

SP Orel Hershiser 4.47 14 6

SP Chad Ogea 4.99 8 9

SP Bartolo Colon 5.65 4 7

SP Jaret Wright 4.38 8 3

 

 

All era's over 4.

 

They had a team ERA+ of 100. Exactly league average. Not too shabby, especially not with that offense.

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Yeah, I think people forget that Thome and Williams each had like 35 HR's that year and Manny hit like .330.

 

their pitching was a different story, which is why they only won 86 games.

 

 

I just pulled up the stats...

 

 

era w L

SP Charles Nagy 4.28 15 11

SP Orel Hershiser 4.47 14 6

SP Chad Ogea 4.99 8 9

SP Bartolo Colon 5.65 4 7

SP Jaret Wright 4.38 8 3

 

 

All era's over 4.

 

They had a team ERA+ of 100. Exactly league average. Not too shabby, especially not with that offense.

 

It was an average staff. If it was above average I am sure they win 100 games. I am glad they didnt have a great staff because the marlins probably dont win if they do.

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I voted for '97, they had a better offense and faced a tougher opponent in the

WS. As good as the yanks were in '03, I remember Giambi not being 100%

and Soriano was basically nowhere to be found. The pitching for the

Indians may have been crappy, but their offense was scary as hell.

 

ya I remember soriano was batting 8th or 9th. Wells also got hurt and they had to play jeff weaver.

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C: Johnson v. Rodriguez

Defense: Both were top of game receivers, Johnson's arm in 1997 is better than Rodriguez's in 2003.

Offense: No comparison, Ivan was better in 2003 than Johnson was at any time.

Edge: Slight 2003

 

1B: Conine/Daulton v. Lee

Defense: Conine was great, Daulton less so, but Derek Lee was the best 1B the Marlins have every had play the field

Offense: Conine had a poor year, Daulton not really the greatest, Derek Lee was solid (.887 OPS)

Edge: Strong 2003

 

2B: Counsel v. Castillo

Defense: C ounsel was sound, Luis is Gold Glove

Offense: Similar OBP and SLG, Luis was not a good speed threat in 2003

Edge: Negligible difference

 

3B: Bonilla v. Lowell

Defense: Bonilla was a hack, Lowell was solid

Offense: Lowell was better, and Cabrera was better when filling in

Edge: 2003

 

SS: Edgar Rentaria v. Alex Gonzalez

Defense: Edgar was overrated (and still is), Alex was spectacular

Offense: Alex was better than Edgar, especially 2003 Alex v. 1997 Edgar

Edge: Strong 2003

 

LF: Alou v. Hollandsworth/Cabrera/Conine

Defense: Alou was good, 2003 was a fright show

Offense: Alou pushed .900 OPS, the 2003 crew were all under .800

Edge: 1997 in a rout

 

CF: White v. Pierre

Defense: White could throw, Pierre... not so much

Offense: Pierre got on base more, managed more slg, was better on the basepaths

Edge: Solid 2003

 

RF: Sheff v. Encarnacion/Cabrera

Defense: Sheff was underrated, Juan was overrated. Sheff had a better arm, Juan had better range

Offense: Sheff's 'disappointing' year brought an .870 OPS, Encarnacion was a cancer, a black pit in the heart of the order where runs went to die, he was the sh*tty hitter that everyone said Sea Bass was. Cabs was better, but still no comparison to Sheff

Edge: 1997, by a lot, a whole lot, so much that it almost eats up the C, 1B and 3B advantages of 2003

 

Starting Pitching:

2003: Beckett, Penny, Redman, Pavano

1997: Brown, Saunders, Leiter, Hernandez

Edge: The 2003 team is just better. Redman had a poor start, but so did Leiter, Brown, and Saunders

 

Bullpen:

2003: Looper, Urbina, Fox, Helling, Willis

1997: Nen, Powell, Heredia, Alfonseca, Cook, Vosberg

Edge: I wish this team had a bullpen that compared to those! 1997 has the edge, but not as much as one might think.

 

Bench:

2003: Encarnacion, Hollandsworth, Redmond, Fox, Mordecai

1997: Eisenreich, Arias, Abbot, Cangelosi, Conine/Daulton, Floyd, Zaun

Edge: 1997 was better. Eisenreich, Abbot, Arias and Floyd are the 4 best guys listed

 

Manager: Leyland v. McKeon

I don't think much of McKeon's actual game management but he was the right guy at the right time as far as motivation goes. Leyland managed some masterful affairs in the series.

Edge: 1997

 

I'd go with 2003 due to depth in the starting lineup.

 

Pierre, Castillo, Rodriguez, Cabrera, Lee, Lowell, Conine, Gonzalez

just lines up better than

Council, Rentaria, Sheffield, Alou, Bonilla, White, Conine/Daulton, Johnson

 

And the rotation for the 2003 team is better step by step, and the bullpens are both solid once starters get into them.

 

I don't see the great bench advantage of the 1997 team making up the gap.

 

Also, the 2003 Yankees (101 wins in a tough division) were far superior to the 97 Indians (86 wins in a crap division). The Yankees had better pitching, as good of a lineup and a better bench. Even with the injury to Giambi the offense was better, and scored more runs.

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