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Scouts' Views on Olsen and Hermida


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Here are some scouts' views on Olsen and Hermida:

 

The scouts (who requested anonymity) say Scott Olsen never will be a No. 1 or No. 2 starter. ''He's not a leader by any stretch of the imagination,'' one said. ``The mentality he brings is not a No. 1 to No. 3 starter. He's had this mentality since he was young, and he's not going to change. He doesn't have good enough control of his fastball consistently. All of a sudden, he can't throw a strike for an inning. He loses focus, then regroups and it's too late. What the heck is that about?''

 

Doubts persist about Hermida. Said one scout: ''He doesn't handle the ball in or balls down and away. He's supposed to handle the ball up and over the plate really well, and he isn't [consistently]. He has a reputation for being injury-prone.'' (One positive despite his low average: his eight homers in 168 at-bats, compared with five in 307 last season.)

There's more in the full article:

http://www.miamiherald.com/588/story/163823.html

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Unfortunately can't find an online link to the article but its a slam job on the Marlins. Here are some of the lowlights....

 

a) Steve Phillips says ....."They'll have a run at being a .500 team, but ever expecting more from them is more misleading"

 

b) Phillips continued...."If you can come in forth with Willis, you can come in forth without him" so he says we should move Willis

 

c) one of the scouts who requested anonymity......."Scott Olsen is never going to be a # 1 or # 2, He is not a leader by any stretch of the imagination. The mentality he brings is not a # 1 to # 3 starter. He has had this mentality since he was young, and he's not going to change. He doesn't have good enough control of his fastball consistently. All of a sudden, he can't throw a strike for an inning. He loses focus, then regroups and it's too late. What the heck is that about ?"

 

d) Phillips and the scouts also voiced concern over Miggy and his weight, with Phillips saying...."That slow roller play is increasingly difficult"

 

e) Said one scount on Miggy....'He is below average defensively" and "His range is limited, and I don't see as quick reactions as I used to see"

 

f) that the departure of Perry Hill has impacted the team significantly.....said one scout....."He stayed on top of guys. There is no way Andy Fox can have the insight or confidence of the fielders the way Perry had".

 

g) that....."doubts persits over Jeremy Hermida. One scout said....."He doesn't handle the ball in or balls down and away. He's supposed to handle the ball up and over the plate really well, and he isn't [consistantly]. He also has a reputation for being injury prone". They said there is one positive....despite his low average....his 8 homers in 168 AB's this year compared to his 5 in 307 AB's last year.

 

h) Among other views (beyond praise for Dan Uggla and Hanley Ramirez) Scount want to see more of Kevin Gregg before they are covinced he is the real deal. Said Steve Phillips " He is a 2nd tier closer".

 

i) One scout also talked about Olivo's defensive regression and also mentioned The Hammer's slow reactions off the bat.

 

What do you guys think ?

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Not to say these scouts are necessarily wrong, but you have to wonder if there's some jelousy involved here. The Marlins have the best team on a per dollar basis, and they're very young. The fact is the Marlins are pretty good at evaluating talent.

 

It's better to ask scouts from teams that don't play the Marlins often and are likely to want to be their trade partners - the AL, the NL West, and the NL Central. Getting opinions from NL East scouts is ridiculous - you know they're going to try to minimize the value of Marlins players so the Marlins get lesser players in return should they make a trade.

 

Phillips is an idiot, so I ignore whatever he says. The fact is that this team is about a .500 team this season (and last season) with such a young roster. To expect them not to improve is just pure silliness.

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I hate to say that there is much to be desired of Olsen's composure and maturity. That comes with increased experience but he does have the stuff. He can be as dominating as the best of them. I still consider him a work in progress. He may not be an Ace but he is a # 2 starter if I ever saw one, at worse #3. As for Hermida we know he is not hitting for average right now, that doesn't mean he cannot. He will hit

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See its sh*t like this that gets me angry. Hanley Ramirez has played the series of his life and we get a Steve Phillips rant from Barry Jackson.

 

Judging by the team he put together in 2001, I wouldn't put much weight into his talen evaluation skills.

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I've also met scouts at Pro Player who say Hanley's the best player on the team.

 

There are a bunch of different opinions out there. Remember, there are scouts that felt Josh Hamilton was a smarter pick then Beckett and that Joe Borchard couldn't miss.

 

It's an opinion, it's great, but the only difference between a scout and most of us is they get paid for their opinions.

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I don't put much stock into a scout who is trying to rate a 23 year old based on his leadership ability. That to me throws out all credibility. Scouts should be looking at the physical tools and what he throws, you can't measure "leadership" plus it really doesn't matter one bit if a pitcher is a leader or not. :rolleyes:

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It's an opinion, it's great, but the only difference between a scout and most of us is they get paid for their opinions.

I would say that's incredibly naive. Most scouts have been baseball lifers, so to assume that we (most of us not yet 25) know as much as they do (or have seen close to as many games, know what to look for, etc) is a bit over the top. But perhaps that's what you were shooting for.....

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Anything Phillips says is immediately disregarded.

Bingo. He was an awful GM (see Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano).

 

I think Phillips was gone already when that trade occurred. That was in 2004, he was fired in 2003 to the best of my knowledge.

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It's an opinion, it's great, but the only difference between a scout and most of us is they get paid for their opinions.

I would say that's incredibly naive. Most scouts have been baseball lifers, so to assume that we (most of us not yet 25) know as much as they do (or have seen close to as many games, know what to look for, etc) is a bit over the top. But perhaps that's what you were shooting for.....

Too bad Barry Jackson says he can't tell us who told him, but believe him. Maybe it was a boy scout.

 

Phillips sets the example for how to get a good tv job. Suck at your GM job, year after year spend money on aging injury prone players, get more money and do even worse, get fired for your incompetence (after a fan revolt nearly takes place to get you fired) and then speak as if you have any credibility.

 

As to the subject matter, some of our kids may never get over their problems, but, they are still so young, have had little veteran leadership, so they have learned on the job how to deal with slumps and adjustments. With maturity may make all these negative comments seem silly in just a year or two.

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I don't put much stock into a scout who is trying to rate a 23 year old based on his leadership ability. That to me throws out all credibility. Scouts should be looking at the physical tools and what he throws, you can't measure "leadership" plus it really doesn't matter one bit if a pitcher is a leader or not. :rolleyes:

from what i know...scouts generally look at "6" tools...that 6th one being leadership/off the field qualities...and while i dont agree with whomever said scotty is a poor leader...i do have to agree that leadership qualities and coachability is def something scouts look at

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It's an opinion, it's great, but the only difference between a scout and most of us is they get paid for their opinions.

I would say that's incredibly naive. Most scouts have been baseball lifers, so to assume that we (most of us not yet 25) know as much as they do (or have seen close to as many games, know what to look for, etc) is a bit over the top. But perhaps that's what you were shooting for.....

 

 

While yes, a scouts opinion does hold a lot more ground than a poster on a forum (Afterall, there is a reason they are paid for it), it still boils down to just being an opinion, not fact. And I think that's all Swifty was getting at.

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What's always missing in these kind of pieces is some insight (or hint) into who the scouts are employed by and for what purpose are they willing to discuss a particular player or players. Scouts can sometimes be surrogates for their GMs or more often doing everything they can to throw you off the trail of what they're really up to.

 

Most scouts are in fact pretty closed-mouthed about their real talent evaluations. Just because they chew the fat among themselves or throw a comment to some reporter or some kid does not mean that's what they're reporting back to their employer.

 

Scouts are notorious liars, it comes with the job. You certainly aren't going to suggest that player X is the best thing since sliced bread for all the world to hear if you're whispering in your GM's ear that the one player he should want to move on in a trade deadline deal is that same kid. The same guy who tells Barry Jackson that Scott Olsen has leadership issues and doesn't have the stuff to be a top 1-2-3 of the rotation pitcher can at the same time telling his front office Scotty would make a great addition to their rotation for a pennant drive.

 

While Barry Jackson for his own purposes was willing to report their comments at face value the reader has no idea what contact the scout has had with the player at hand, whether he is speaking candidly or with some agenda, whether he's saying these things based on supposition or direct knowledge, or he just read something in a Mike Berardino column he knows will resonate with another local reporter.

 

While scouts are famous for playing "Mickey the Dunce" to hide their real evaluations and those here who think they know as much a professional scouts truly should be wearing a dunce cap. This time of the year especially, it's almost impossible to tell truth from fiction as reporters and columnists are bombarded by disinformation or fictions of every description meant to throw other GMs off the trail of what their employer's real intentions are.

 

You didn't hear any Marlins scouts in 2005 telling Barry Jackson "we're really high on this kid the Diamondbacks have thrown under bus at AA..." or whispering in Mike Berardino's ear, "...you ought to keep an eye out on this Amezaga guy everyone's forgotten about. This kid can play...". If it's July or the off-season and a scout tells you "this kid can't miss" and he's unsigned, you'd better believe there's a hole in the guy's game somewhere.

 

Sooner or later it will all come out but all GMs are often looking for is a few days window where they are the only guy trying to make a deal for Player X. That's the most one can hope for in the blackberry generation where quickly everyone knows everyone elses business - a week, a few days, even a few hours - can mean the difference in getting a deal done or not. And scouts are sort of the ground troops of this war, spreading whatever information is useful to their employers while at the same time trying to find the player his guy needs to improve his team down the stretch.

 

I would pretty much write off anything you read these days presented as quotes from scouts but the fact they are there says something in itself, and that may turn out to be more interesting. What teams are shadowing what other teams is the story, not what some guy who knows how the game is played says to story-starved columnist a month before the trade deadline.

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? Phillips and the scouts said Miguel Cabrera's weight is a concern. ''He's playing himself into the outfield or first base,'' Phillips said. ``That slow-roller play is increasingly difficult.''

 

Said one scout: ''He's below-average defensively. His range is limited. I don't see as quick reactions as before.'' And infield coach Perry Hill's departure has had ``an impact. He stays on top of guys. There's no way Andy Fox can have the insight or confidence of the fielders the way Perry had.''

 

no one mentions how much weight he's lost in the last month.... and since then his defense has been good. his range is not my concern either. my concern is him maintaining consistent arm slot and making accurate throws. if he can do that he will be league average-to above average at 3B. We saw how good he was at 3B in the second half of last year.

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? Phillips and the scouts said Miguel Cabrera's weight is a concern. ''He's playing himself into the outfield or first base,'' Phillips said. ``That slow-roller play is increasingly difficult.''

 

Said one scout: ''He's below-average defensively. His range is limited. I don't see as quick reactions as before.'' And infield coach Perry Hill's departure has had ``an impact. He stays on top of guys. There's no way Andy Fox can have the insight or confidence of the fielders the way Perry had.''

 

no one mentions how much weight he's lost in the last month.... and since then his defense has been good. his range is not my concern either. my concern is him maintaining consistent arm slot and making accurate throws. if he can do that he will be league average-to above average at 3B. We saw how good he was at 3B in the second half of last year.

 

Which leads one to believe (and there are a number of scenarios) that a thought is this an AL scout whose team played the Marlins early on in interleague play. Cabrera has obviously lost weight and is playng much better D with improved range over the last month.

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