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Players we should trade


JPierre75sbs
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None of our Minor league prospects are sexy like an Andrew Miller. That's not a good thing.

yea but it's not like Miller isn't a top 10 or so pitching prospect

 

 

dont get what youre trying to say

 

He's saying HOW many teams can say they have an Andrew Miller in their system?

 

Next to none.

 

 

But out of all the pitchers we drafted in the first round the past couple of years, our highest prospect is a #39. and the next one after that is a wide margin from 39. That's not good.

injuries and busts happen if sean west was healthy last season it wouldnt be suprising to see him up with volstad

 

 

That's what happens when you draft so many pitchers in early rounds....

another thing is that some of those early round picks were picked because they are going to develop into something but dont have the high ceiling some scouts love the thing is there is a difference between stuff and being able to pitch. look at RVH he has the stuff to dominate the majors but he still has yet to learn how to pitch effectively. these picks were deamed as safer picks because they were easier to project right and a guy with high ceilings are harder to project and the pitchers the marlins have taken that are high ceiling guys are not developing like the marlins hoped when they drafted them but it doesnt mean they are hopeless some players take longer to develop

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I've read through all this. A few comments.

 

Trading successful pitchers, regardless of age or where and how they came to be major leaguers in 2007, without knowing the health of our relief staff, is premature at best and I would think their highest value will be June 2008 (unless another team has a slew of injuries in spring training).

 

Right now I would trade pitching prospects even before Miller or Gardner (unless, someone calls and specifically wants one of them) thinking their value is low until they prove 2007 wasn't a fluke. GMs aren't stupid, with second tier players like this and no real history to go on they need to use spring training to prove they have value.

 

My first preference aside, I would like to see Uggla tried out at third and Andino at second in spring training. By now the I would assume the Marlins FO has spoken with Uggla about the possibility and hopefully the guy is taking a thousand balls a day there, and we'll know very quickly whether he can make the switch or not. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he was being tutored there right now.

 

And I happen to think (using a word I rarely use with ball players) Andino "deserves" to show what he can do after the offensive and defensive improvements he displayed last season putting up much improved batting numbers, picked as the team's defensive player of the year and selected for the PCL all-star team for the same reason. I say let him play himself out of contention instead of writing him off without a chance. I only wish Perry Hill were here to mentor him (and the whole infield for that matter) this spring.

 

This has to be Jacobs' last chance at proving his worth and hopefully he knows it. He shortens his swing a bit and he could be a fixture at first. Keep doing what's he's done and he'll be lucky to make it out of spring training.

 

With a number of players it will be very interesting to see who has and hasn't used this off-season to improve lot. Doing nothing will jeopardize this careers. Those who ignore that do it at their own peril.

 

Andino became unpopular when he chose family over team a fourteen months ago and could have handled the situation much better. But in his defense the kid is just that, a kid. If you want to carry a grudge forever so be it but I'm open-minded (which is not the same as optimistic) about him.

 

I wouldn't trade Gregg for anything short of a LaRoche or equivalent. If showcased properly this spring he could have significant value should (or perhaps I should say "when") someone's closer goes down. There's no reason to think Gregg's value has diminished since September.

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Andino became unpopular when he chose family over team a fourteen months ago and could have handled the situation much better. But in his defense the kid is just that, a kid. If you want to carry a grudge forever so be it but I'm open-minded (which is not the same as optimistic) about him.

 

I highly doubt that's why anyone here dislikes the guy

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Andino became unpopular when he chose family over team a fourteen months ago and could have handled the situation much better. But in his defense the kid is just that, a kid. If you want to carry a grudge forever so be it but I'm open-minded (which is not the same as optimistic) about him.

 

I highly doubt that's why anyone here dislikes the guy

 

I suppose it's a different crowd now but I'm pretty sure it was an issue here a year or so ago.

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Andino became unpopular when he chose family over team a fourteen months ago and could have handled the situation much better. But in his defense the kid is just that, a kid. If you want to carry a grudge forever so be it but I'm open-minded (which is not the same as optimistic) about him.

 

I highly doubt that's why anyone here dislikes the guy

 

I suppose it's a different crowd now but I'm pretty sure it was an issue here a year or so ago.

Maybe you're right, but I don't recall that

 

if anything it was the pouting that made the Marlins send out Hill and Jennings to the AFL and set him straight

 

although this all may have been connected

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Andino became unpopular when he chose family over team a fourteen months ago and could have handled the situation much better. But in his defense the kid is just that, a kid. If you want to carry a grudge forever so be it but I'm open-minded (which is not the same as optimistic) about him.

 

I highly doubt that's why anyone here dislikes the guy

 

I suppose it's a different crowd now but I'm pretty sure it was an issue here a year or so ago.

Maybe you're right, but I don't recall that

 

if anything it was the pouting that made the Marlins send out Hill and Jennings to the AFL and set him straight

 

although this all may have been connected

 

That's exactly right. And if I remember correctly he left AFL early in spite of their efforts.

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Gee, how appropriate is this...

 

(Just found it a minute ago, published today)

 

Two 'Topes are Topps stars; '08 sked released

 

Two Albuquerque Isotopes, third baseman Scott Seabol and shortstop Robert Andino, comprise the left side of the infield on the 2007 Topps/Minor League Baseball Triple-A All-Star team.

 

The Iowa Cubs, with catcher Geovany Soto and second baseman Eric Patterson, are the only other club to have more than one player on the team. The best performances in all Minor League Baseball classifications are again being honored by the Topps Company of New York, N.Y., in conjunction with Minor League Baseball.

 

Seabol, 31, of Elizabeth, Pa., is proof that perseverance pays. Seabol was released in 2006 after playing in 71 games for the Isotopes. He signed with a Korean team and then was re-signed by the Florida Marlins and sent back to Albuquerque for the 2007 season. Seabol finished second in the PCL in runs (100), RBIs (105) and extra-base hits (68) and tied for second with 32 homers. And, he also led all PCL third baseman with a .957 fielding percentage. The New York Yankees originally drafted Seabol in the 88th round in 1996.

 

Andino, 23, of Miami, Fla., also made a return trip to the Isotopes this season.

 

In 2006, Andino hit .255 in 120 games for the Isotopes. He then appeared in eleven games for the Marlins. This year, Andino tied for third in the PCL with 166 hits and paced the league with 13 triples. Florida selected him in the second round in 2002 out of Miami's Southridge High School.

 

In an off-season full of accolades, the Isotopes have picked up one more, earning the Bob Freitas Award from Baseball America as the top overall franchise in Triple-A Baseball, the publication announced last week.

 

In addition to hosting the immensely successful 2007 Triple-A All-Star Game, the Isotopes were recognized on the basis of their five total years in Albuquerque, in which they've drawn almost three million total fans and have been widely regarded throughout the industry as one of the strongest franchises in the game. Isotopes Park continually ranks among the best facilities in sports and 'Topes merchandise is annually one of Minor League Baseball's biggest sellers...

 

(more)

 

http://www.observer-online.com/articles/20...rts/sports4.txt

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Gee, how appropriate is this...

 

(Just found it a minute ago, published today)

 

Two 'Topes are Topps stars; '08 sked released

 

Two Albuquerque Isotopes, third baseman Scott Seabol and shortstop Robert Andino, comprise the left side of the infield on the 2007 Topps/Minor League Baseball Triple-A All-Star team.

 

The Iowa Cubs, with catcher Geovany Soto and second baseman Eric Patterson, are the only other club to have more than one player on the team. The best performances in all Minor League Baseball classifications are again being honored by the Topps Company of New York, N.Y., in conjunction with Minor League Baseball.

 

Seabol, 31, of Elizabeth, Pa., is proof that perseverance pays. Seabol was released in 2006 after playing in 71 games for the Isotopes. He signed with a Korean team and then was re-signed by the Florida Marlins and sent back to Albuquerque for the 2007 season. Seabol finished second in the PCL in runs (100), RBIs (105) and extra-base hits (68) and tied for second with 32 homers. And, he also led all PCL third baseman with a .957 fielding percentage. The New York Yankees originally drafted Seabol in the 88th round in 1996.

 

Andino, 23, of Miami, Fla., also made a return trip to the Isotopes this season.

 

In 2006, Andino hit .255 in 120 games for the Isotopes. He then appeared in eleven games for the Marlins. This year, Andino tied for third in the PCL with 166 hits and paced the league with 13 triples. Florida selected him in the second round in 2002 out of Miami's Southridge High School.

 

In an off-season full of accolades, the Isotopes have picked up one more, earning the Bob Freitas Award from Baseball America as the top overall franchise in Triple-A Baseball, the publication announced last week.

 

In addition to hosting the immensely successful 2007 Triple-A All-Star Game, the Isotopes were recognized on the basis of their five total years in Albuquerque, in which they've drawn almost three million total fans and have been widely regarded throughout the industry as one of the strongest franchises in the game. Isotopes Park continually ranks among the best facilities in sports and 'Topes merchandise is annually one of Minor League Baseball's biggest sellers...

 

(more)

 

http://www.observer-online.com/articles/20...rts/sports4.txt

 

 

a .255 hitter in AAA. I'm pumped

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Andino became unpopular when he chose family over team a fourteen months ago and could have handled the situation much better. But in his defense the kid is just that, a kid. If you want to carry a grudge forever so be it but I'm open-minded (which is not the same as optimistic) about him.

 

I highly doubt that's why anyone here dislikes the guy

None of us even remember that, it's more his weak bat that permeates in my memory

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a .255 hitter in AAA. I'm pumped

 

That was 2006 , maybe you missed that. .278 in 2007 and .308 over August and September.

 

 

He still sucks though...

 

Thank you for your astute evaluation...too bad so many disagree. Best Defensive Player of the Year award from his team, PCL all-star, now the Topps award. But what do they know?

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a .255 hitter in AAA. I'm pumped

 

That was 2006 , maybe you missed that. .278 in 2007 and .308 over August and September.

 

 

He still sucks though...

 

Thank you for your astute evaluation...too bad so many disagree. Best Defensive Player of the Year award from his team, PCL all-star, now the Topps award. But what do they know?

 

 

Okay, what do you think he will project in the majors with?

 

Give me a BA, and power numbers.

 

I can't wait to laugh.

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a .255 hitter in AAA. I'm pumped

 

That was 2006 , maybe you missed that. .278 in 2007 and .308 over August and September.

 

 

He still sucks though...

 

Thank you for your astute evaluation...too bad so many disagree. Best Defensive Player of the Year award from his team, PCL all-star, now the Topps award. But what do they know?

 

 

Okay, what do you think he will project in the majors with?

 

Give me a BA, and power numbers.

 

I can't wait to laugh.

 

Be as sarcastic as you want but I would think as a fan you would be pleased that a young kid is showing steady improvement in the system and is being recognized by his team, by the league and nationally for his play. No one is projecting him to be the next Alex Rodriguez but anytime someone excels and shows year to year better numbers I'm happy for him.

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the only thing that made me hate andino was the whole dogging it in AFL but besides that i think he is the classic shortstop built for defense with speed not power. i haven't seen him play enough to judge his defense but from what i read his errors in the minors are just because he trys to hard which makes me wonder what was going on in the AFL

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None of our Minor league prospects are sexy like an Andrew Miller. That's not a good thing.

 

I think you're the one that doesn't understand the arbitration thing??? Creating a team that will peak at the same time?? They're all more or less the same age? We're already doing this. Holding back a player during a rebuilding year when we have lesser options is rather dumb don't you think?

 

This timeline approach won't save you much with Maybin. He should get a significant amount of PT this season, one way or another. We went through this in '98 and '06. You're putting too much thought into arbitration for a rookie player right now.

 

 

About Gardner and Miller - we have no choice really. This is the highest they will be at. That's the point. Whether it get's us alot or a little - it should get us something and that's what matters.

First comment pertains to nothing aforementioned. Miller's the best pitcher we have. I think it is ridiculous you want to slap the rest of the pitchers in the organization though. They are very good arms.

 

I love how you think I don't know arbitration. You're new so I'm going to ignore that. Age is irrelevant. It's about service time. Regardless - who is stuck in the minors? Who? It's not any of the pitchers. It's not Coghlan who is our only good position prospect in AA or higher. Maybin if kept in AA? Holding back Maybin at least half of 2008 would delay his arbitration clock a full season and give us an extra year of control. That would constitute a significant impact where we keep him longer and are not wasting his service time in a non contending year. This won't hurt his development as he is so outrageously young. He probably needs AA/AAA seasoning anyways regardless of our CF depth chart. This has the added impact of keeping our costs down for one additional year in the future. It's literally huge. It wouldn't be felt until 2011 but it's pretty wise to plan ahead. Especially for a cost conscious franchise. And even more especially for a cost conscious franchise which somehow refuses to buy out player's arbitration. But that's another issue.

 

It would also be idiotic to give Gardner and Miller away for little to nothing. It would be a longshot for their success to continue but if either of them puts in a good two months to start the year, they would be so valuable in a trade this summer it would not be funny. Everyone wants relievers. They aren't worth getting fringe prospects who are 24 in single A right now. Hopefully they could turn into a real trading piece in the future. That is worth more then getting a bunch of junk that would never crack our depth chart. Not very hard.

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None of our Minor league prospects are sexy like an Andrew Miller. That's not a good thing.

 

I think you're the one that doesn't understand the arbitration thing??? Creating a team that will peak at the same time?? They're all more or less the same age? We're already doing this. Holding back a player during a rebuilding year when we have lesser options is rather dumb don't you think?

 

This timeline approach won't save you much with Maybin. He should get a significant amount of PT this season, one way or another. We went through this in '98 and '06. You're putting too much thought into arbitration for a rookie player right now.

 

 

About Gardner and Miller - we have no choice really. This is the highest they will be at. That's the point. Whether it get's us alot or a little - it should get us something and that's what matters.

First comment pertains to nothing aforementioned. Miller's the best pitcher we have. I think it is ridiculous you want to slap the rest of the pitchers in the organization though. They are very good arms.

 

I love how you think I don't know arbitration. You're new so I'm going to ignore that. Age is irrelevant. It's about service time. Regardless - who is stuck in the minors? Who? It's not any of the pitchers. It's not Coghlan who is our only good position prospect in AA or higher. Maybin if kept in AA? Holding back Maybin at least half of 2008 would delay his arbitration clock a full season and give us an extra year of control. That would constitute a significant impact where we keep him longer and are not wasting his service time in a non contending year. This won't hurt his development as he is so outrageously young. He probably needs AA/AAA seasoning anyways regardless of our CF depth chart. This has the added impact of keeping our costs down for one additional year in the future. It's literally huge. It wouldn't be felt until 2011 but it's pretty wise to plan ahead. Especially for a cost conscious franchise. And even more especially for a cost conscious franchise which somehow refuses to buy out player's arbitration. But that's another issue.

 

It would also be idiotic to give Gardner and Miller away for little to nothing. It would be a longshot for their success to continue but if either of them puts in a good two months to start the year, they would be so valuable in a trade this summer it would not be funny. Everyone wants relievers. They aren't worth getting fringe prospects who are 24 in single A right now. Hopefully they could turn into a real trading piece in the future. That is worth more then getting a bunch of junk that would never crack our depth chart. Not very hard.

 

First of all, I know how arbitration works son. Second of all, I'm not new by any means. I've been reading these forums for the past couple of years as a lurker and I've posted way back when, even when this forum didn't exist and there was only the MLB Marlins forum (when it was good). People here can atest to that. I've tons of arbitration work back in the day, when we used to have real conversations back in 02 and all. Don't ever bring that newbie sh*t to me.

 

Third, I know it doesn't go by age. Duh. I'm saying we're fielding a team that's close together in age and will peak as a team in age, as in contending together as a team with age? Much like the 03 team did? Or did you forget? Your statement of holding back Maybin now, when we have only LESSER options, as I noted before is borderline retarded. Maybin should and WILL get a great amount of AB's at the MLB level this season. That's a fact. We basically have no other option but to run him out there.

 

And what's more ridiculous is saying save him for when we are in contention? What the hell is that about? You don't purposely save rookies for when you are contending? You develop rookies during rebuilding years. Let them work under less pressure and get their kinks out. That was the beauty of the '98 team and you can even throw in the '06 team in there. Derek Lee, AJ Burnettl, Castillo and countless of others didn't just start mashing right away.

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If last season was any indication, (I mentioned this in another thread but realized it probably belonged here instead) three months or even a full season of Kenny Lofton in centerfield would probably be money well spent. Anything resembling last season of close to .300/.370 with 20+ stolen bases would be a real asset to this team and potentially a good trading chip next summer should Maybin prove himself truly ready for MLB.

 

Cleveland, declined to offer him arbitration and set him free. I hope he's on the front office radar. Lamb and Lofton could really satisfy a number of needs on this team although if I had to choose one, it would be the latter.

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Rather than trade Kevin Gregg, do you think it'd make more sense to return him to a starter role? You could do a lot worse than a starting rotation of Miller-Olsen-Mitre-VandenHurk-Gregg.

 

Bullpen is obviously the strength of this team and I think we could afford to try this kind of move. Thoughts?

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First of all, I know how arbitration works son. Second of all, I'm not new by any means. I've been reading these forums for the past couple of years as a lurker and I've posted way back when, even when this forum didn't exist and there was only the MLB Marlins forum (when it was good). People here can atest to that. I've tons of arbitration work back in the day, when we used to have real conversations back in 02 and all. Don't ever bring that newbie sh*t to me.

 

Third, I know it doesn't go by age. Duh. I'm saying we're fielding a team that's close together in age and will peak as a team in age, as in contending together as a team with age? Much like the 03 team did? Or did you forget? Your statement of holding back Maybin now, when we have only LESSER options, as I noted before is borderline retarded. Maybin should and WILL get a great amount of AB's at the MLB level this season. That's a fact. We basically have no other option but to run him out there.

 

And what's more ridiculous is saying save him for when we are in contention? What the hell is that about? You don't purposely save rookies for when you are contending? You develop rookies during rebuilding years. Let them work under less pressure and get their kinks out. That was the beauty of the '98 team and you can even throw in the '06 team in there. Derek Lee, AJ Burnettl, Castillo and countless of others didn't just start mashing right away.

But age is irrelevant which you are not grasping. It's service time. It's making the team peak at the same time and you have to combine this on a salary threshold where you can afford the entire team by mixing the guys with multi-million dollar contracts with club controlled players. Try and realize how important this is for the Marlins. You specifically cite 03. Because the Marlins did not have a combination of veterans and huge rookie performers that year.

 

Putting Maybin out opening day is dumb when you can stick him in AA for 3 months and it won't hurt his development because of where he is as a player. You speak as if he won't "work out the kinks" unless he is at the MLB level. That is wrong. Also you are arguing for playing Maybin 3 additional months in a non contending 2008 versus having him under club control for an additional season (Where you would think the Marlins will be very good in the future). That's pretty idiotic. You want to have control over your players for as long as possible. I mean that is obvious. There really is no benefit to playing Maybin right away in 2008 for these reasons. This is also why you'd hope the Marlins let Volstad and G. Hernandez throw in AA/AAA for the first 2+ months of the season so you don't get them started either. Who cares we have no CF on the roster. It's about systematically planning for the future. You're not grasping this.

 

Maybe you can think about it in terms of Cabrera and Dontrelle. They were brought up mid year. Their pre-free agency years were basically 04-09. Yet we had them for worthwhile MLB service time in 03. This is what they need to do with Maybin/Volstad/Gaby this year so we have their club controlled rights for 09-11 and overall through 2014. Basically why let them hit arbitration in 2011 when it isn't a big deal to use them right now or not. That is way more important than hitting the ground running in 2008 just because you don't want to see Amezaga/Cody in centerfield for 3 more months or whatever. It's about building for the future. It's the much better course of action.

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Agree with Lou on Maybin. Even apart from the service time considerations, which are nontrivial, it seems that Maybin could certainly use a little more seasoning in the minors. Last year, after his short MLB stint, the Tigers admitted that he wasn't ready yet. Even though the Marlins can afford to allow Maybin to experience his inevitable growing pains next year, I'm concerned that needlessly rushing him could adversely affect his development. Ross, De Aza and Carroll can hold down CF for half of a season, or more, until they feel Maybin has made sufficient progress in the minors.

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First of all, I know how arbitration works son. Second of all, I'm not new by any means. I've been reading these forums for the past couple of years as a lurker and I've posted way back when, even when this forum didn't exist and there was only the MLB Marlins forum (when it was good). People here can atest to that. I've tons of arbitration work back in the day, when we used to have real conversations back in 02 and all. Don't ever bring that newbie sh*t to me.

 

Third, I know it doesn't go by age. Duh. I'm saying we're fielding a team that's close together in age and will peak as a team in age, as in contending together as a team with age? Much like the 03 team did? Or did you forget? Your statement of holding back Maybin now, when we have only LESSER options, as I noted before is borderline retarded. Maybin should and WILL get a great amount of AB's at the MLB level this season. That's a fact. We basically have no other option but to run him out there.

 

And what's more ridiculous is saying save him for when we are in contention? What the hell is that about? You don't purposely save rookies for when you are contending? You develop rookies during rebuilding years. Let them work under less pressure and get their kinks out. That was the beauty of the '98 team and you can even throw in the '06 team in there. Derek Lee, AJ Burnettl, Castillo and countless of others didn't just start mashing right away.

But age is irrelevant which you are not grasping. It's service time. It's making the team peak at the same time and you have to combine this on a salary threshold where you can afford the entire team by mixing the guys with multi-million dollar contracts with club controlled players. Try and realize how important this is for the Marlins. You specifically cite 03. Because the Marlins did not have a combination of veterans and huge rookie performers that year.

 

Putting Maybin out opening day is dumb when you can stick him in AA for 3 months and it won't hurt his development because of where he is as a player. You speak as if he won't "work out the kinks" unless he is at the MLB level. That is wrong. Also you are arguing for playing Maybin 3 additional months in a non contending 2008 versus having him under club control for an additional season (Where you would think the Marlins will be very good in the future). That's pretty idiotic. You want to have control over your players for as long as possible. I mean that is obvious. There really is no benefit to playing Maybin right away in 2008 for these reasons. This is also why you'd hope the Marlins let Volstad and G. Hernandez throw in AA/AAA for the first 2+ months of the season so you don't get them started either. Who cares we have no CF on the roster. It's about systematically planning for the future. You're not grasping this.

 

Maybe you can think about it in terms of Cabrera and Dontrelle. They were brought up mid year. Their pre-free agency years were basically 04-09. Yet we had them for worthwhile MLB service time in 03. This is what they need to do with Maybin/Volstad/Gaby this year so we have their club controlled rights for 09-11 and overall through 2014. Basically why let them hit arbitration in 2011 when it isn't a big deal to use them right now or not. That is way more important than hitting the ground running in 2008 just because you don't want to see Amezaga/Cody in centerfield for 3 more months or whatever. It's about building for the future. It's the much better course of action.

 

Dude, I see you're the guy in the board that likes to see arguments go absolutely NOWHERE. I said "peak" as a team as in COMPETETIVE wise man. God! Is that so hard to grasp???? When players are more or less the same age, they enter their primes more or less the same age?? This is not hard.

 

Another thing, you fail to answer my question that I ask you for the 4th time: Do we have any better option right now than to play Maybin?

He is pretty much ready (just about), and we pretty much don't have a choice.

 

You're putting wayyyyyyy too much emphasis on a rookie player and arbitration. Way too much emphasis on that. You're thinking 3 years from now. This club doesn't think like that. We think year to year dude. If we CAN help it, like in Miguel's case where we waited a little and we could afford to do that (that was a veteran team), then you hold out a few weeks to gain an extra year in arbitration. That's the only time you hold a rookie back..

 

But yea, go ahead, just ramble for the 3rd time about putting Maybin in AAA/AA again without addressing anything I just said and bore us all.

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