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Senate passes bill to increase car gas-milage standards


The_Godfather
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You're crazy if you think fuel efficiency hasn't changed in 20 years. Cars have gotten considerably heavier AND faster and achieve greater fuel economy. A Honda Accord V6 would outrun most sports cars from the 1980s. The future of the electric car is not viable anytime in the near future IMO. The only viable alternative energy I see in the near future is the hydrogen engine. As for reliability, I urge you to check JD Power and Associates reliability rankings. You'll notice that Lexus and Buick are tied for the most dependable cars in the country. Yes, a humble, POS American brand right up there with the best Toyota has to offer. Fuel economy compared to the foreign competition might be weak, but you have to remember cars aren't designed and produced overnight. We're not talking about Express offering a new t-shirt that fits with current trends in a week or so. Cars take 3-5 years to develop and are developed reflecting their times. That's why cars designed now are considerably more efficient than cars developed 5 years ago when gas was $1.50 a gallon. The American auto industry will not collapse though, they'll respond just as well, they just need to bring the right product which I'm sure they will in the near future. The Japanese and Europeans have just had an advantage because they've dealt with sky-high fuel prices for the past 50 years rather than the past 4.

 

Also, if a Tesla Roadster can ever sound like this, I'll be more than happy to transfer to switch over to something like that:

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I guess I just personally don't care all that much about a car that can go fast. I'm never going to be able to afford a Benz or any type of nice car on a lowly reporter's salary, so I'll be much more interested in a car that gets me from point A to point B without raping me on gas mileage. How the car sounds, or how fast it goes are really meaningless.

 

I also really dislike speeding tickets.

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I guess I just personally don't care all that much about a car that can go fast. I'm never going to be able to afford a Benz or any type of nice car on a lowly reporter's salary, so I'll be much more interested in a car that gets me from point A to point B without raping me on gas mileage. How the car sounds, or how fast it goes are really meaningless.

 

I also really dislike speeding tickets.

Nothing wrong with that and you are like 95% of the general public, but don't go ruining it for the rest of us. This isn't the Netherlands where we should all be guilted into driving 8hp hatchbacks the size of a showerstall. After all, car enthusiasts are still Americans and we have the right to pursue our passions as much as anyone else in this country. These damn sanctimonious a**hole politicians that damn SUVs and sports cars, then roll around in 8mpg limousines, SUVs, and luxury cars are the ones the really bother me. I guess it's just another case of some being "more equal" than others.

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Like I said, I see the same information but read it all a little different. To address your major points, though:

You're crazy if you think fuel efficiency hasn't changed in 20 years.

Ford's flagship family vehicle has been the Taurus for quite some time:

1987 Ford Taurus - 18-24MPG

2007 Ford Taurus - 18-25MPG

 

The best selling truck over the last 20 years has been the Ford F-150:

1987 Ford F-150 - 15-20MPG

2007 Ford F-150 - 14-19MPG

 

As for reliability, I urge you to check JD Power and Associates reliability rankings. You'll notice that Lexus and Buick are tied for the most dependable cars in the country.

?? That's actually not true. Buick is a 3/5 and Lexus gets a 5/5 in best overall initial quality, according to JD Power. As the JD Power link shows, Lexus is pretty much the gold standard as far as manufacturers go. If you do a top to bottom sort, you'll find the top of the list is heavy with foreign manufacturers and the bottom is weighted down with American manufacturers. In fact, the bottom 4 are Chrysler, Dodge, Hummer, and Jeep - ALL American.

 

I would also urge you to take a look at Consumer Reports to see reliability ratings across the full range of vehicles. Unfortunately, you need a subscription so I can't link to that. Suffice it to say, if you look at a Honda Accord's reliability ratings, it is without peer. You can also look here, though, and check by vehicle.

 

Cars take 3-5 years to develop and are developed reflecting their times. That's why cars designed now are considerably more efficient than cars developed 5 years ago when gas was $1.50 a gallon.

3 years if you are lucky. Chrysler was destroying their Detroit counterparts by going from design to production in 39 months. That's almost twice as fast as the average American automaker's 72 months. Of course, Honda can do it in 18 months and Toyota is also in that 18-22 month window. Since I can't find the Car and Driver Magizine article I read this in [the reason Daimler purchased Chrysler in 1998], I'll have to ask you to take a look at the fuel efficiency of pickup trucks from 1970 versus those of 1980. There was a pretty major event between 1970 and 1980 that should have had a profound impact on fuel efficiency but didn't. This eventually lead to the "foreign invasion" that opened the US market up to Honda, Toyota, and [at the time] Datsun [now known as Nissan]. So please forgive me if my faith in Detroit fixing this on their own due to World events is about equal to my faith in the Catholic Church deciding Abortion should be a woman's choice...

 

Of course, like bobbob, I'm more of a point A to point B type driver. I just wanted to show that companies like Tesla are around to prove that you don't HAVE to give up performance to go Green.

 

As far as the sound goes, I prefer the hum of a motor to the tinny whine of a 4 cylinder with an exhaust kit any day of the week. And, let's face it, there are about 100x as many of those on the road as there are Ferraris and Lambos. Also, I would like to point out, that electric engine would mean less noise pollution - especailly for those of you that live near a busy road. How is that a bad thing again??

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YF21, go look at engine output and weight of the vehicles you're comparing. Hell, just go sit in the vehicles you're comparing, if you don't think the current car is the more pleasant place to spend your time, you're 100% wrong. Also, JD Power and Associates has a Vehicle DEPENDABILITY Study where Lexus and Buick are tied. Initial quality is a stupid, dickless measure. It's essentially a survey where they ask you if your first three months of ownership haven't annoyed the piss out of you. If someone has a button fall off the radio or their gas mileage isn't as good as advertised, it'll be adversely represented on an IQS.

 

 

 

Also, FWIW, cars in 1987 were judged by different and entirely unrealistic conditions that the 2007 ratings are more realistically and harshly tested. Back in the 80s, they tested cars at 55mph for highway with no AC and no radio. Nowadays they test at higher mph, AC and radio on.

 

Also, if you can't enjoy the sound of a Ferrari and prefer the hum of a car to equal that of the aural excitement of a harddrive whirring or an electric razor, more power to you, but I think you're really missing out. I assume you don't like music either and probably jam out to some Eddie Money instead of some Bach, Mozart, hell, even something more mundane like Thriller.

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Chevy has got to be at the bottom of that list.

Hell no.

 

Mercedes, VW, Land Rover, Audi usually are near the bottom. IIRC, Chevy is just below industry average. Which really isn't that bad considering the huge amount of vehicles they sell every year.

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Chevy has got to be at the bottom of that list.

Hell no.

 

Mercedes, VW, Land Rover, Audi usually are near the bottom. IIRC, Chevy is just below industry average. Which really isn't that bad considering the huge amount of vehicles they sell every year.

Didn't it say per 100, thus proving overall numbers meaningless? Anyway, within my household we've have five different Chevy's...and let's just say that my Monte Carlo was the last any of us will ever deal with.

 

btw, I think I may be wrong about my evaluation :mis2

 

I've got POTC3 blasting in my ear and all I want to do is watch the SNL Peter Sarsgaard skit.

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Chevy has got to be at the bottom of that list.

Hell no.

 

Mercedes, VW, Land Rover, Audi usually are near the bottom. IIRC, Chevy is just below industry average. Which really isn't that bad considering the huge amount of vehicles they sell every year.

Didn't it say per 100, thus proving overall numbers meaningless? Anyway, within my household we've have five different Chevy's...and let's just say that my Monte Carlo was the last any of us will ever deal with.

 

btw, I think I may be wrong about my evaluation :mis2

 

I've got POTC3 blasting in my ear and all I want to do is watch the SNL Peter Sarsgaard skit.

I just meant that since they're producing in such high volumes it's easier for a crap car to slip past quality control compared to say, a Lexus which is made in much smaller volume to a much higher standard. Price points, etc. also play into this.

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