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Jim Rice a HOFer?


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Rice has one year left with the BBWAA and then he is off to the Veteran's Committee.

thats right and I think Rice along with Rickey Henderson are 2 locks for next year..........

 

I heard Mac got the same amount of votes as last year.......

I guess he'll get in after I'm dead.....or at least I hope so....

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Rice has one year left with the BBWAA and then he is off to the Veteran's Committee.

thats right and I think Rice along with Rickey Henderson are 2 locks for next year..........

 

I heard Mac got the same amount of votes as last year.......

I guess he'll get in after I'm dead.....or at least I hope so....

There are 16 a**holes cheating baseballs lovers from seeing Jim Rice take his rightful spot at Cooperstown. They better get their asses in gear next year. This a travesty! It actually was reported McGwire gained a few votes. Not Much though

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He was a good player for a few years, a great player for 2 or 3, and a good player who wasn't as good as he was before. He's like any other good-great player who wasn't great enough.

 

How is Jim Rice a lock in so many eyes and Albert Belle isn't even on the ballot anymore? Belle was a much better version of Rice.

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It doesn't matter. It's all about Rickey next year. It would be such poetic justice in seeing Rickey get in all by Ricky's self.

 

2010 will be interesting. I wonder what voters will do with Edgar and no obvious HOF candidates. Maybe 2010 will be Big Mac's year?

 

2009: Mark Grace, Rickey Henderson, Dean Palmer, Dan Plesac, Matt Williams

2010: Andres Galarraga, Edgar Martinez, Robin Ventura

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He was a good player for a few years, a great player for 2 or 3, and a good player who wasn't as good as he was before. He's like any other good-great player who wasn't great enough.

 

How is Jim Rice a lock in so many eyes and Albert Belle isn't even on the ballot anymore? Belle was a much better version of Rice.

Belle was a great hitter but throughout his career Rice was just a better player as an impact player. Any pitcher of his era would agree

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Jim Rice shouldn't be in the HoF. There I said it.

It's obvious that you never saw Jim Rice play either! Some players careers are much more than the numbers. He played in a different era when hitting homers was an achievement. 30 Homers would be like hitting 45 now a days. He had as much power as ARod

 

SLG percentage is a pretty good, if inexact, way of judging someone's power. Rice's career SLG was .502. That was a nice amount. Alex Rodriguez's is .578. Albert Belle's was .564.

 

League SLG in Jim Rice's career was .407. He was 95 points better for his career, not a bad number. For Arod's career, league average has been .434. He is .144 points above leage average.

 

Jim Rice's career was too short, and he didn't have enough amazing, best player in the league type years to cover his slide.

 

And the "30 homers = 45 today" argument is bulls***. Mike Schmidt, who played at the same exact time as Rice had 13 30 home runs seasons to Rice's 4. Dwight Evans, Rice's outfield mate that nobody ever talks about for the hall (despite a similar career OPS and 8 GGs) had 3 years of 30+ homers plus was tied for the league lead in the strike shortened 1981 season.

 

Like I said, Rice was a good player who never sustained greatness for long enough to qualify. Of guys currently on the ballot I put him behind McGwire, Blyleven, Raines, and about on par with guys like Murphy, Dawson, Dave Parker, and Don Mattingly. Guys who were either good but not great, or simply not great enough for a long enough time.

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He was a good player for a few years, a great player for 2 or 3, and a good player who wasn't as good as he was before. He's like any other good-great player who wasn't great enough.

 

How is Jim Rice a lock in so many eyes and Albert Belle isn't even on the ballot anymore? Belle was a much better version of Rice.

Belle was a great hitter but throughout his career Rice was just a better player as an impact player. Any pitcher of his era would agree

 

I don't know what you are trying to say here, but it sounds dumb. Albert Belle has a career OPS+ of 143. He had a 193 (!!!!!!!) OPS+ in 1994. He had 100 XBH in a year where the league only played 144 games. I'm not sure how you can impact a game much more than that.

 

I suppose, if you were Jim Rice you could impactfully have a 116 OPS during a similarly strike shortened year. Or you could scare pitchers into a .323 OBP in 1984.

 

Albert Belle was a much better player than Jim Rice. He impacted games via his amazing skills as a ball player.

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Albert Belle... impacted games via his amazing skills as a ball player.

As a Yankee fan, I can agree with this. I remember sitting in the stands at Yankee Stadium during another one of those Yankee-Orioles epic battles [they always seem to go 4-5 hours]. It was the top of the 10th with a runner on 2nd and we just assumed Belle would knock that guy in. Yankees won in a walk off but I think my point is made.

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Guest RichWaltzLoveChild

Jim Rice shouldn't be in the HoF. There I said it.

It's obvious that you never saw Jim Rice play either! Some players careers are much more than the numbers. He played in a different era when hitting homers was an achievement. 30 Homers would be like hitting 45 now a days. He had as much power as ARod

 

:lol

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Well, if Rice should be in, then couldn't you consider Ellis Burks to be a HOFer as well (even though he came a bit later)? I have trouble accepting that.

There's a pretty big difference in power numbers between 1974 and 1987. The gap is even bigger between 1989 [Rice's last year] and 2004 [burks's last]. That's why people tend to be compared to their peers and I don't think Burks and Rice were peers. There's a reason Rice won an MVP and finished top 20 7 other times compared to Burks with 0 and 3. Just to give you a case in point, Rice lead the league in home runs with 39 in '77 and '83. When Burks was in his prime [1996], a dozen guys hit over 40 homers including 2 that hit over 50.

 

I don't think Rice is a HOF lock but we should be fair to the guy...

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Well, if Rice should be in, then couldn't you consider Ellis Burks to be a HOFer as well (even though he came a bit later)? I have trouble accepting that.

There's a pretty big difference in power numbers between 1974 and 1987. The gap is even bigger between 1989 [Rice's last year] and 2004 [burks's last]. That's why people tend to be compared to their peers and I don't think Burks and Rice were peers. There's a reason Rice won an MVP and finished top 20 7 other times compared to Burks with 0 and 3. Just to give you a case in point, Rice lead the league in home runs with 39 in '77 and '83. When Burks was in his prime [1996], a dozen guys hit over 40 homers including 2 that hit over 50.

 

I don't think Rice is a HOF lock but we should be fair to the guy...

I agree. Compared to their peers Rice was a way better hitter than Burks. Among his peers there's maybe 5 to 10 better hitters than Rice. Among his peers there's way more better hitters than Burks than 5 to 10.

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I saw virtually every home game Rice played in at Fenway for the length of his career. And about every televised game as well.

 

I always thought Jim was a good player, a very good player, but I would have never imagined him in the Hall of Fame. He had some absolutely tremendous years and some not so. I'm willing admit perhaps I didn't give him the respect he deserved because as much as I remember Jim Rice the ballplayer I also remember Jim Rice the sullen malcontent loner who never seemed to be enjoying the game he was so good at.

 

I'm frankly surprised by all the consideration he's getting. I'll leave it to others to decide whether he belongs or not. He brought me a lot of joy when many of those years as a Red Sox fan there wasn't much to cheer about, if he makes it great, if not it won't surprise me.

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It is difficult to transfer numbers of an era to another era. The story is that Jim Rice numbers would not be the same if he played Today nor would Arod's number if he played in yjr 70's and 80's Are we ever gonna see a 4 man rotation again? Pitchers were of a higher caliber or at least more dominant but all pitchers respected JIm Rice

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It is difficult to transfer numbers of an era to another era. The story is that Jim Rice numbers would not be the same if he played Today nor would Arod's number if he played in yjr 70's and 80's Are we ever gonna see a 4 man rotation again? Pitchers were of a higher caliber or at least more dominant but all pitchers respected JIm Rice

 

Arod is twice the player Jim Rice ever was. Come on, man. You can't be serious here.

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Like I said, Rice was a good player who never sustained greatness for long enough to qualify.

During a 12 year period from 1975 to 1986 in the American League, Rice was ranked:

 

1st in runs (1,098)

1st in hits (2,145)

1st in home runs (350)

1st in runs batted in (1,276)

1st in slugging percentage (.520)

1st in total bases (3,670)

1st in extra-base hits (752)

1st in go-ahead RBIs (325)

1st in multi-hit games (640)

4th in triples (73)

4th in batting average (.304)

1st in outfield assists (125)

 

Rice finished in the top five in MVP voting in 6 of those 12 years.

 

In 1978 Rice won the MVP and became the first American League player since Joe DiMaggio to finish with more than 400 total bases.

 

From 1977-1979, Rice recorded 35-plus homers and 200-plus hits in each season, the only person in history to do that.

 

If you look at the entire major leagues over that same 12-year period, Rice still ranked first in RBIs, hits, total bases, go-ahead RBIs and multi-hit games, second in slugging, runs and extra-base hits (to Mike Schmidt), third in homers (to Schmidt and Dave Kingman), and second in outfield assists (to Dave Winfield).

 

(Not my work)

 

I don't think anyone can even begin to argue against that.

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He is a borderline candidate, in my eyes. He simply wasn't great for long enough.

 

He also ranks a whopping 173 all time in OPS+, which is, of course, park and era adjusted. He also gets no points for defense, as he was an average defensive player.

 

Dwight Evans, a contemporary and teammate of Rice's has a career 127 OPS+, one point lower than Rice, and was also a great defensive player. He isn't in. Nobody makes points of him being a HOF, as they shouldn't. Why Rice, then? If he played any where else (except maybe New York), he would have been off the ballot a long time ago.

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So, the best power hitter and you could absolutely argue the best hitter in the AL for over a decade (12 years) and he wasn't good for long enough? How?

 

You are backing up your stance with very, very little.

 

I think I've given you a lot to back up my opinion but I see little to the contrary besides people just saying they don't think he should be in.

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From 1975 through 1986, Rice posted numbers that were simply unmatched by any other outfielder. The closest was Dave Winfield, a first-ballot Hall of Famer, who averaged 151 games, 634 plate appearances, 24 homers, 99 RBI, 91 runs scored and an OPS of .841. Rice tops all of those numbers, with 152 games, 655 plate appearances, 30 homers, 109 RBI, 94 runs scored and an OPS of .873. In fact, if we were to average the all-star and top-10 MVP seasons of every major league outfielder in this time period, we would find that they average - in their best years - just 146 games, 609 plate appearances, 22 homers, 85 RBI, 87 runs scored and an OPS of .844. (All of these numbers are extrapolated for the 1981 strike season.) In other words, Jim Rice spent twelve consecutive seasons posting numbers that were better than the average All-Star or MVP-caliber major league outfielder. No one else comes close - Rice was the best hitting outfielder of his day, and if not for Mike Schmidt would have been the best hitter period.

 

This certainly was recognized in his time, as he collected six top-5 MVP finishes in this span. If MVP finishes were converted to points, Rice's total of 50 would be tied with Reggie Jackson for 20th in the history of baseball. All of the 15 eligible players ahead of him have already been inducted into the Hall of Fame. More than one hundred Hall of Famers rank behind him.

http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlib...White_Paul9.stm

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