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Marlins ballpark in jeopardy once again


yandro
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I know it sounds petty and SHOULDN'T affect the stadium deal but 30 days from Feb. 21st is March 22nd. Today means we are 11 days away. If we don't have anything by then, the deal is OFF. NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

yeah...that is absurdly far over the line...deal is done...with a few questions lingering...

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Again, and again, again.....this issue between the county and city regarding who's police or deputies get the security and SPECIAL DUTY MONEY is a non-issue. It will be worked out. It's perhaps the most minor point that's come up in the years we've been waiting for the politicians to hand over public money to build a stadium for a rich man's business. IT IS NOTHING TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT.

Now, there is something real that can come into play and affect the stadium being built. To explain it, allow me to make an analogy that most here will understand:

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After a year of discussions, you've finally gotten your parents to agree on a car deal for you. Your parents have agreed to put up $10,000 to help you buy a nice new $15,000 car. As part of the agreement, you pledge to work, or use your own money to pay off the $5,000 balance. You've got the $5,000, or you have a realistic goal of working to get the $5,000. So, done deal...right. Wrong. You still need to go to a car dealer who's willling to sell you the car you want for $15,000. All the car dealers say NO, they want $18,000. Now what? You have to either come up with a way to get that extra $3000 on your own, or you need to go back to your parents and make a new deal.

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.

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Catch my drift? Substitute county commission for parents. Substitute STADIUM GENERAL CONTRACTOR for car dealer. The Marlins have 500 million or so to work with. But they haven't yet found a contractor who's signed off on an agreement to build a "world-class" ballpark with a retractable roof for 500 million, with acceptable cost over-runs. Hopefully they will, soon. But if not, it's either Loria reaching into those lint-filled pockets of his, or it's Loria and MLB going back to the commission hat in hand asking for more money, please. Bottom line, IMO, hold off on any celebration about getting that new car(stadium) until the Marlins have signed contract with the builders. Hopefully, that will happen tomorrow, or soon. But, IMO, that's the thing to wait for. This police business is a NON-ISSUE. Don't worry about that. Look for the signed contract wherein a builder says YES, we can build you that stadium for 500 million, and we guarantee that cost over-runs won't be over 50 million, and we're willing to pay for any insurance should cost over-runs run higher than that. Then we can celebrate.

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I know it sounds petty and SHOULDN'T affect the stadium deal but 30 days from Feb. 21st is March 22nd. Today means we are 11 days away. If we don't have anything by then, the deal is OFF. NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

That's actually not true. They never amended that to the deal, even though a few county officials tried.

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The deal is not complete.Anyone who says it's complete, is biased and lying.

How the feck is the stadium deal contingent on the signing off of any independent party aside from the Marlins? All that needs to be done is the city, county and Marlins need to nail down some details before the stadium opens. They can extend deadlines forever. The agreement of who's going is to pay was the important one. The second most important matter, covering cost overruns, was also decided. Every thing after that is trivial. The police unions are just trying to make it into something bigger than it is. But in no way do they have the leverage to stop the ballpark from being built. This issue ranks just above what shovels they're going to use at the ground-breaking. (Rumor: I heard Loria's going to move the team to San Antonio if they don't feature orange handles!!!)

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I'm repeating myself because I think it was lost in the thread. The stadium is on county land. The stadium is a county building. If anyone has "rights" to special duty overtime it's the county police and fire and not the city public safety personnel.

 

The Orange Bowl site will be in effect a piece of unincorporated Miami-Dade and not the city of Miami.

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I know, but I think several commissioners were not kidding around when they said they would approve the deal and needed a FIRM answer in 30 days with respect to the City/county police deal.

Yeah, and that's why they tried to get it amended into the deal. But it wasn't, so they can't kill the deal over it.

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You guys are going back and forth on this for no reason. The deal is done. Not because of the marlins, but because of MLB and local government. Do any of you even realize how much money has already been invested into getting this far? By both the marlins, mlb, AND city/county? We passed the point of no return. I have an AMAZING source. Infact, if you were watching the webcast you heard him speak about the deal from the side of the city of miami. The deal is done. This police issue is MINOR. The herald just needed a story. If nothing is resolved come deadline, people with the power to decide are going to sitdown and basically do a 50/50 type deal. Stop worrying for no reason.

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Miami-Dade county commissioners voted Tuesday to extend a Friday deadline for Miami and Miami-Dade police to settle a rancorous dispute over who will patrol a new baseball stadium for the Florida Marlins.

 

The debate -- over which agency would receive the valuable off-duty pay that comes with policing ballgames -- nearly derailed twin votes on Feb. 21 by city and county commissioners to help pay for the $525 million stadium and the $94 million parking garage that will be built in Little Havana.

 

After convincing local union bosses during the vote last month that both administrations would iron out the issue, union leaders agreed to a 30-day reprieve. It came with the caveat that if an agreement wasn't reached in a month, plans to build the stadium could die.

 

The police unions remain logjammed. The county is still upset years after AmericanAirlines Arena was built that Miami police patrol the site, and Miami police are demanding they secure command rights at a new Marlins stadium -- even though the agreement calls for the ballpark's footprint to be deeded to the county.

 

Miami-Dade police union boss John Rivera and Miami union chief Armando Aguilar recently met, but no agreement has been brokered.

 

On Tuesday, commissioners agreed to give the sides more time, and no one took issue with Commissioner Jose ''Pepe'' Diaz's motion to extend the deadline. No new deadline was given.

http://www.miamiherald.com/459/story/462689.html

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From Sarah Talalay's Blog on the Sun Sentinel:

 

http://blogs.trb.com/sports/custom/busines...te_no_9110.html

 

Marlins Stadium Update No. 911,000

 

> Posted by Sarah Talalay at 11:25 PM

OK, it?s not much of an update, but it?s almost the deadline for an agreement on which police and fire departments will patrol a new Marlins ballpark. Among the items raised during last month?s seemingly endless Miami-Dade County Commission debate over the ballpark was whether county or city police and fire would patrol the venue.

 

County officials promised to resolve the contentious issue within 30 days ? or risk derailing the plan to build a $515 million retractable roof ballpark at the site of the Orange Bowl.

 

On Tuesday, county commissioners extended the deadline for the law enforcement issue to be resolved until April 8 ? the next scheduled meeting of county commissioners. I?m being told the issue of which jurisdiction will win the coveted patrol ? more than likely it will be a blended patrol ? will be resolved and will not prevent the ballpark agreement from moving forward.

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Now I'm not a security expert by any stretch of the imagination, but one would think that a major public building like a stadium would require considerable manpower to surveil its premises. Add the fact that Miami is one of the major cities with a crime problem and a target of terrorism and you'd see how it should not be easy under normal circumstances to draw officer corps to patrol at sporting events.

 

Which makes it all the more ridiculous to see this controversy unfolding. If anything, any good police chief understands that officer corps at sporting events means less manpower to combat street crime, and that's just with 8 football games/year (16 when the Dolphins played at the OB) plus the annual bowl game. Yes, I am aware that the expectation of overtime pay would make the work enticing to take on. Yes, I understand officers wanting to get paid. But it also means less time spent with their families, the stress of having to look for, arrest and remove rowdy troublemakers and whatever trouble that might happen when major numbers of people gather at one spot. Then there's the stress of anticipating any scenario from accidents to fires and now terrorism. Fighting average street crime is stressful enough.

 

In other cities, it's accepted as a fact of life that there would be major inconveniences in handling the job of overseeing crowds going in and out of sporting events. Imagine how the a city like New York could manage to put policemen at Yankee Stadium. It has to be expensive to keep an eye on those maniacs who inhabit there. :D

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Now I'm not a security expert by any stretch of the imagination, but one would think that a major public building like a stadium would require considerable manpower to surveil its premises. Add the fact that Miami is one of the major cities with a crime problem and a target of terrorism and you'd see how it should not be easy under normal circumstances to draw officer corps to patrol at sporting events.

 

Which makes it all the more ridiculous to see this controversy unfolding. If anything, any good police chief understands that officer corps at sporting events means less manpower to combat street crime, and that's just with 8 football games/year (16 when the Dolphins played at the OB) plus the annual bowl game. Yes, I am aware that the expectation of overtime pay would make the work enticing to take on. Yes, I understand officers wanting to get paid. But it also means less time spent with their families, the stress of having to look for, arrest and remove rowdy troublemakers and whatever trouble that might happen when major numbers of people gather at one spot. Then there's the stress of anticipating any scenario from accidents to fires and now terrorism. Fighting average street crime is stressful enough.

 

In other cities, it's accepted as a fact of life that there would be major inconveniences in handling the job of overseeing crowds going in and out of sporting events. Imagine how the a city like New York could manage to put policemen at Yankee Stadium. It has to be expensive to keep an eye on those maniacs who inhabit there. :D

 

 

 

 

 

With all due respect, there are a lot of incorrect statements in this post.

 

 

First, detail officers at the new stadium does NOT translate into less officers patrolling the street. There is a specific number of officers who are assigned to a zone or district every day/night. The officers that are NOT assigned to work that day or night are available for off-duty detail work.

 

 

Detail pay for the most part is not paid as overtime. There is a flat detail rate of pay (I'm going to make an educated guess and say that Miami's is $32.00 an hour.

 

Detail work is almost always MUCH easier than working a normal day/night tour on the road. Just watch the officers at the next Marlins game you go to (with the exception of the beginning and end of the game when they do traffic control which can be tedious/dangerous).

 

 

To summarize, neither the County nor the City will have any trouble at all filling the detail positions at the new ballpark because there are always rookies making starting pay who need the supplemental income and veterans looking to pad their Florida Retirement System accounts (and rightfully so).

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I'm actually surprised I haven't seen anything official on this, but I have a friend that works for the county. He was in the room for those dreadful hours when the commissioners were babbling on before they voted... Anyways, he said the whole situation with the police was sorted out a week or so ago, so I'm not sure what's going on. But the county is already moving forward, assigning resources to the project, etc... So I don't know what's up with the media, but ever since I spoke with him, I've been pretty comfortable that it's a done deal... I hope there haven't been any changes since we last spoke.

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We still haven't found a contractor willing to sign on that they can build a "world-class" stadium with retractable roof for 500M.....and the Marlins have offered only 20M(chump change) in cost-over-runs.

 

Where did you read that? In all the talks, especially in the gruesome hours watching the commissioner's hearing, I never heard them mention a cap as far as overruns go. They always said they would be responsible for any overruns, but a figure was never thrown out there... At least I never heard one.

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Give me a break.

40 games to the city forces, 40 games to the county. Flip a coin as to who gets the first half of the season. 41st game is split juristiction, as are all special events that require more personnel (ASG, post season, etc.) The second year (and all folowing years,) flip the order, whoever had the second half the first year gets the first half the second.

Everybody wins.

 

 

But I know this will NEVER happen.

 

It makes too much sense CGator, that's why it will never happen :thumbdown

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We still haven't found a contractor willing to sign on that they can build a "world-class" stadium with retractable roof for 500M.....and the Marlins have offered only 20M(chump change) in cost-over-runs.

 

Where did you read that? In all the talks, especially in the gruesome hours watching the commissioner's hearing, I never heard them mention a cap as far as overruns go. They always said they would be responsible for any overruns, but a figure was never thrown out there... At least I never heard one.

It's not a cap. That's a misrepresentation of what was said. The Marlins have $20 Million up front for overruns, which according to Samson is more than any other team has ever put upfront.

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