Eddie Altamonte Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 The last I looked Marlins' pitching was rated 11th in the majors, after the past week it should be in the top 10. I was considering our Bullpen has to be in the top 5 in the majors likely only behind the Angels and maybe the Red Sox. Would it be fair to say we have the 3rd best Bullpen in the majors right now? If not would u say 4th or 5th? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flasportsfan88 Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 The last I looked Marlins' pitching was rated 11th in the majors, after the past week it should be in the top 10. I was considering our Bullpen has to be in the top 5 in the majors likely only behind the Angels and maybe the Red Sox. Would it be fair to say we have the 3rd best Bullpen in the majors right now? If not would u say 4th or 5th? If we had a dominate closer you'd see the media talking about it a little bit more. But i'd put our pen against anyones. We still have Gardner and Owens hurt right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricWiener Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 We have 6 closers as a bullpen and another in the rotation. Except for Lindstrom, who I expect to improve near term, I have complete confidence in every member of our bullpen to come in with a lead and leave with a lead. We are not going to get much media attention to the pen until we have a truly dominate closer (Rivera, Hoffman, Wagner) at the back end, but it is a huge strength. The reason this team will stick around is because of our bullpen and bench being able to help us squeek out close ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Beinfest Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 Our starting pitching is like... 20-25 just because of Olsen and Hendrickson being so good. Our relief pitching is definately top 10, more around 5 just because of such strong MRP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 We only have a handful of guys that are getting it done (Pinto, Miller, and to a slightly lesser extent, Kensing). Gregg has been rather mediocre if you analyze his actual performance and not the superficial metric of saves converted. Lindstrom and Tank have been terrible. I'm beginning to worry that Pinto will be overused this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 We only have a handful of guys that are getting it done (Pinto, Miller, and to a slightly lesser extent, Kensing). Gregg has been rather mediocre if you analyze his actual performance and not the superficial metric of saves converted. Lindstrom and Tank have been terrible. I'm beginning to worry that Pinto will be overused this season. Waechter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 The Marlins bullpen is currently 5th in the big leagues in ERA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbethan Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 We only have a handful of guys that are getting it done (Pinto, Miller, and to a slightly lesser extent, Kensing). Gregg has been rather mediocre if you analyze his actual performance and not the superficial metric of saves converted. Lindstrom and Tank have been terrible. I'm beginning to worry that Pinto will be overused this season. In the top 10 saves leaders this year, Gregg has the 4th best ERA. Now, I know you don't like saves, but it's something to look at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 And bottom third for most other metrics for closers with 4+ saves. No point in restricting it to top saves leaders. That's misleading and irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 We only have a handful of guys that are getting it done (Pinto, Miller, and to a slightly lesser extent, Kensing). Gregg has been rather mediocre if you analyze his actual performance and not the superficial metric of saves converted. Lindstrom and Tank have been terrible. I'm beginning to worry that Pinto will be overused this season. Waechter... has not been used in key situations so I find it difficult to commend him at this moment. He didn't look too solid last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbethan Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 And bottom third for most other metrics for closers with 4+ saves. No point in restricting it to top saves leaders. That's misleading and irrelevant. Eh, it was the quickest thing I could find. I wasn't trying to mislead anything. Also, what are these "other metrics"? Also, the top 10 is everyone with 6+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 Walk, hits, strikeout based figures. Gregg is performing poorly in all of them. I view pitching performance as more than just "converting saves" or "not allowing runs." Compared to even Gregg's own career norms he has declined in his ability to prevent baserunners and create his own outs. There are plenty of bad pitchers who have high ERAs and high save totals just because they play for teams where greater save opportunities present themselves. In fact I don't even feel the need to compare Gregg to other ninth inning men just because of the dynamics of the role alone. However, Gregg's WHIP in close game situations is quite staggering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 We only have a handful of guys that are getting it done (Pinto, Miller, and to a slightly lesser extent, Kensing). Gregg has been rather mediocre if you analyze his actual performance and not the superficial metric of saves converted. Lindstrom and Tank have been terrible. I'm beginning to worry that Pinto will be overused this season. Waechter... has not been used in key situations so I find it difficult to commend him at this moment. He didn't look too solid last night. I disagree. Waechter has about 3 or 4 holds in the 6th inning this year, in tough situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 Hardly. He has three holds and only one of them is with men on base. The typical paradigm is that he comes into the game after one of our starters only goes 4-5 innings and our offense hasn't scored a lot of runs to create a large deficit. He's done okay but nothing to solidify is role in the pen. He's very replaceable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishfan97 Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 As much as we've played well as a team, Kevin hasn't been as dominant as he should be. We expect a lot out of him for good reason, but we got to remember he is a converted long reliever who didn't do that great in Anaheim and Oakland. Kevin, I believe has only blown two games, which we have won anyway, but we could use a guy like Pinto or Lindstrom in that spot if he continues to struggle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 Hardly. He has three holds and only one of them is with men on base. The typical paradigm is that he comes into the game after one of our starters only goes 4-5 innings and our offense hasn't scored a lot of runs to create a large deficit. He's done okay but nothing to solidify is role in the pen. He's very replaceable. Waechter also came in, in a 1 run game in Milwaukee on a Sunday I believe (6th inning) and had a 1, 2, 3 inning. It's a short sample, but aside from 1 bad outing...Waechter has done his job this year, so far. That's all you can ask for. He's done his job so far. As for Gregg...shaky...but at least he hasn't imploded like Gagne and Isringhausen? :mis2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 He's doing his job but he still gives up a lot of hits and walks, thus making him nothing special. In all honesty he doesn't have a very difficult role to fill. Hence, he's replaceable. Not having late inning implosions with frequency also is not criteria for quality pitching. It seems like you have incredibly low (or misguided) standards when it comes to bullpens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 He's doing his job but he still gives up a lot of hits and walks, thus making him nothing special. In all honesty he doesn't have a very difficult role to fill. Hence, he's replaceable. Not having late inning implosions with frequency also is not criteria for quality pitching. It seems like you have incredibly low (or misguided) standards when it comes to bullpens. I completely understand your reasoning, and I, too, believe that both Gregg and Waechter are very replaceable. However, it doesn't take away from the fact that Waechter has done well, thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 In limited appearances, to a degree. In easy situations, same. It is unfair to even group him together with Pinto and Miller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Beinfest Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 Hardly. He has three holds and only one of them is with men on base. The typical paradigm is that he comes into the game after one of our starters only goes 4-5 innings and our offense hasn't scored a lot of runs to create a large deficit. He's done okay but nothing to solidify is role in the pen. He's very replaceable. Waechter also came in, in a 1 run game in Milwaukee on a Sunday I believe (6th inning) and had a 1, 2, 3 inning. It's a short sample, but aside from 1 bad outing...Waechter has done his job this year, so far. That's all you can ask for. He's done his job so far. As for Gregg...shaky...but at least he hasn't imploded like Gagne and Isringhausen? :mis2 I cringe everytime he makes a pitch but he somehow always gets the job done, so Im fine with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 In limited appearances, to a degree. In easy situations, same. It is unfair to even group him together with Pinto and Miller. well, it's not fair to compare many people to Pinto at this point...he's been arguably the best middle reliever in baseball, thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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