Kevin Gregg

[Erick]

Kevin gregg is responsible for the 2008 collapse , every closer blows games but his last two blown saves are inexcusable . Let the other team beat you dont beat yourself

 

 

The "2008 collapse?"

 

We are in trouble , I think I made the mistake of moving away from my original expectations for this team when the Marlins started to win inspite of their poor defense and spotty starting pitching . These games where our bullpen is taxed to hell and we come up on the short time after time have a mental and physical effect on a team .

 

We're 2-5 in the last 7.

We've done this before, and rebounded nicely.

 

Every team goes through bad streaks over the course of a season.

If you think the season is over, when we're 1.5 games out of 1st place in early June, it's hard to even call you a fan. No offense...

 

None taken as someone who actually goes to 20 games a year who lives 300 miles away it is clear I am a Fake Marlin Fan. i am sorry if my acknowledgement of the reality that my team has some issues that traditionally in baseball have lead teams not to have great seasons has offended you .

 

 

You took that the wrong way...what I meant is, it's obvious this team has some problems. But looking at the standings, and the month we're in, it's stupid to call this a "collapse." COLLAPSE is what the Mets did last year in September...that's what a collapse is.

 

What's the point of watching/going to games if you can't have an inch of "belief" when we're 1.5 back of 1st place...IN JUNE?

[Rabbethan]

Screw him and his 2.54 ERA and his 1.171 WHIP.

 

Erick, a few days ago, you were calling him an all-star.

 

 

I was.

He was 10/11...but the reason for it, is b/c the NL closers aside from Wagner and Lidge...aren't anything special.

 

There was no more to it, than that.

 

You can go back to any thread...listen, Gregg has done ok with us, but he's very replaceable. Those #'s aren't anything "special" by any means for a closer.

 

Gregg is making over 2 mill a year. His trade value will be good come July. Why not trade him? We have a bunch of great arms; I'd like to see one of them tested, and if Gregg could bring a couple prospects back, why not?

 

Btw, I miss you on the gamethreads. :thumbdown

A second ago he was an all-star! Dude, seriously. It's easy to jump on a closer for giving up 2 runs in 10.7 IP in his last 10 games, amassing a 1.69ERA and a 1.078 WHIP in that time.

 

Also... Lidge...really? He's been great this year...and I guess he was "Lights out Lidge" in 2005, but he blew 8 last year and 6 the year before. The man has been a wreck for a few years now, and I would like to see what happens if he faces Pujols again when the Phils face STL. (Keep in mind, I personally have been a big fan of Lidge for years and which him nothing but luck, except against the Fish.)

[IrishHarrington]

Kevin gregg is responsible for the 2008 collapse , every closer blows games but his last two blown saves are inexcusable . Let the other team beat you dont beat yourself

 

 

The "2008 collapse?"

 

We are in trouble , I think I made the mistake of moving away from my original expectations for this team when the Marlins started to win inspite of their poor defense and spotty starting pitching . These games where our bullpen is taxed to hell and we come up on the short time after time have a mental and physical effect on a team .

 

We're 2-5 in the last 7.

We've done this before, and rebounded nicely.

 

Every team goes through bad streaks over the course of a season.

If you think the season is over, when we're 1.5 games out of 1st place in early June, it's hard to even call you a fan. No offense...

 

None taken as someone who actually goes to 20 games a year who lives 300 miles away it is clear I am a Fake Marlin Fan. i am sorry if my acknowledgement of the reality that my team has some issues that traditionally in baseball have lead teams not to have great seasons has offended you .

 

 

You took that the wrong way...what I meant is, it's obvious this team has some problems. But looking at the standings, and the month we're in, it's stupid to call this a "collapse." COLLAPSE is what the Mets did last year in September...that's what a collapse is.

 

What's the point of watching/going to games if you can't have an inch of "belief" when we're 1.5 back of 1st place...IN JUNE?

 

You go to games to root and support your team no matter whether you think they are good or bad with the hope that they will win or ultimately become winners . Perhaps collapse was/is a strong word but I am exceptionally concerned with the issues my team is having . You cant long term win games consistantly with poor defense , spotty starting pitching , and an overworked bullpen. Even in our victories all three of those issues have been present .For those of us passionate about the Marlins it is frustrating to see us GIVE games away instead of the other team beating us.

[Erick]

Screw him and his 2.54 ERA and his 1.171 WHIP.

 

Erick, a few days ago, you were calling him an all-star.

 

 

I was.

He was 10/11...but the reason for it, is b/c the NL closers aside from Wagner and Lidge...aren't anything special.

 

There was no more to it, than that.

 

You can go back to any thread...listen, Gregg has done ok with us, but he's very replaceable. Those #'s aren't anything "special" by any means for a closer.

 

Gregg is making over 2 mill a year. His trade value will be good come July. Why not trade him? We have a bunch of great arms; I'd like to see one of them tested, and if Gregg could bring a couple prospects back, why not?

 

Btw, I miss you on the gamethreads. :thumbdown

A second ago he was an all-star! Dude, seriously. It's easy to jump on a closer for giving up 2 runs in 10.7 IP in his last 10 games, amassing a 1.69ERA and a 1.078 WHIP in that time.

 

Also... Lidge...really? He's been great this year...and I guess he was "Lights out Lidge" in 2005, but he blew 8 last year and 6 the year before. The man has been a wreck for a few years now, and I would like to see what happens if he faces Pujols again when the Phils face STL. (Keep in mind, I personally have been a big fan of Lidge for years and which him nothing but luck, except against the Fish.)

 

 

I wasn't complimenting Lidge for his career...I was complimenting Lidge on what he's done this year, and that's what the All-Star Game is about...THIS YEAR.

 

Gregg is, and has always been replaceable in my mind.

Just b/c I say he's a debatable All-Star a couple days ago, doesn't mean much. B/c it was true...a couple days ago, he could have made a case.

 

But then again, that's why they say it's early.

 

Look at Gregg's career #'s, and look Gregg's #'s since becoming closer of the Marlins. His save % is ok, but his WHIP just suggest he's nothing but a "meh" closer. He has control issues, and he's had them here, ever since the 2nd half of last year.

 

With Lindstrom, and 2 guys in Henry Owens and Carlos Martinez (where are they?), I still don't see why we can't trade Gregg for a couple of prospects (maybe an average catcher?), and replace Gregg with guys who have, at least, more potential than Gregg does.

 

Just b/c I said he should be debated to go to the All-Star Game a couple days ago, doesn't mean that I don't think he's replaceable...or that he's not a "top-tier" closer for that matter. Fact is, most of the dominant closers THIS YEAR are in the AL...that's the ONLY REASON it was even debatable, imo, at the time.

[LordMagnus]

We don't have a reliable reliever in the bullpen right now. They are all overworked and vulnerable.

 

And to make a guy into a closer who has vision problems is beyond absurd and beyond rational thought.

[CyggyMarlin]

Gregg is an average closer, by that I mean, he is not effective enough to be a 1-2-3 inning specialist more often.

 

*sigh* add on to the list of what we need by 2011:

- A young catcher who is solid defensively, and has some power at the plate (This is from a previous thread)

- A "Lights Out" Closer

[sdonke]

gregg is the best option at closer the marlins have at the moment

if you put pinto theres a possibility he walks the bases loaded

lidstorm is never consident

i dont think marlin fans wanna see logan kennsing a closer lol.

even justin miller he cant get out lefties there is no for sure choice so i give gregg the closer job for now

maybe at the deadline pickup one like borowski (cleveland seems to be set on that japainese relif pitcher)

[Erick]

Kevin gregg is responsible for the 2008 collapse , every closer blows games but his last two blown saves are inexcusable . Let the other team beat you dont beat yourself

 

 

The "2008 collapse?"

 

We are in trouble , I think I made the mistake of moving away from my original expectations for this team when the Marlins started to win inspite of their poor defense and spotty starting pitching . These games where our bullpen is taxed to hell and we come up on the short time after time have a mental and physical effect on a team .

 

We're 2-5 in the last 7.

We've done this before, and rebounded nicely.

 

Every team goes through bad streaks over the course of a season.

If you think the season is over, when we're 1.5 games out of 1st place in early June, it's hard to even call you a fan. No offense...

 

None taken as someone who actually goes to 20 games a year who lives 300 miles away it is clear I am a Fake Marlin Fan. i am sorry if my acknowledgement of the reality that my team has some issues that traditionally in baseball have lead teams not to have great seasons has offended you .

 

 

You took that the wrong way...what I meant is, it's obvious this team has some problems. But looking at the standings, and the month we're in, it's stupid to call this a "collapse." COLLAPSE is what the Mets did last year in September...that's what a collapse is.

 

What's the point of watching/going to games if you can't have an inch of "belief" when we're 1.5 back of 1st place...IN JUNE?

 

You go to games to root and support your team no matter whether you think they are good or bad with the hope that they will win or ultimately become winners . Perhaps collapse was/is a strong word but I am exceptionally concerned with the issues my team is having . You cant long term win games consistantly with poor defense , spotty starting pitching , and an overworked bullpen. Even in our victories all three of those issues have been present .For those of us passionate about the Marlins it is frustrating to see us GIVE games away instead of the other team beating us.

 

 

It is frustrating...

we do have problems...

but there's no reason not to have A BIT of optimism in EARLY JUNE with our team STILL very much "in the race."

 

In a month, if the Marlins are still hanging in there, our better pitchers are coming off the DL, and there's no reason to believe the front office won't look to make the team better, in some way. They did it in 2003, when the team was in contention. If it's appropriate, the front office will make a trade, in July.

 

Your mentality is one that people should have in August when their team is completely out of it.

[Rabbethan]

Screw him and his 2.54 ERA and his 1.171 WHIP.

 

Erick, a few days ago, you were calling him an all-star.

 

 

I was.

He was 10/11...but the reason for it, is b/c the NL closers aside from Wagner and Lidge...aren't anything special.

 

There was no more to it, than that.

 

You can go back to any thread...listen, Gregg has done ok with us, but he's very replaceable. Those #'s aren't anything "special" by any means for a closer.

 

Gregg is making over 2 mill a year. His trade value will be good come July. Why not trade him? We have a bunch of great arms; I'd like to see one of them tested, and if Gregg could bring a couple prospects back, why not?

 

Btw, I miss you on the gamethreads. :thumbdown

A second ago he was an all-star! Dude, seriously. It's easy to jump on a closer for giving up 2 runs in 10.7 IP in his last 10 games, amassing a 1.69ERA and a 1.078 WHIP in that time.

 

Also... Lidge...really? He's been great this year...and I guess he was "Lights out Lidge" in 2005, but he blew 8 last year and 6 the year before. The man has been a wreck for a few years now, and I would like to see what happens if he faces Pujols again when the Phils face STL. (Keep in mind, I personally have been a big fan of Lidge for years and which him nothing but luck, except against the Fish.)

 

 

I wasn't complimenting Lidge for his career...I was complimenting Lidge on what he's done this year, and that's what the All-Star Game is about...THIS YEAR.

 

Gregg is, and has always been replaceable in my mind.

Just b/c I say he's a debatable All-Star a couple days ago, doesn't mean much. B/c it was true...a couple days ago, he could have made a case.

 

But then again, that's why they say it's early.

 

Look at Gregg's career #'s, and look Gregg's #'s since becoming closer of the Marlins. His save % is ok, but his WHIP just suggest he's nothing but a "meh" closer. He has control issues, and he's had him here, ever since the 2nd half of last year.

 

With Lindstrom, and 2 guys in Henry Owens and Carlos Martinez (where are they?), I still don't see why we can't trade Gregg for a couple of prospects (maybe an average catcher?), and replace Gregg with guys who have, at least, more potential than Gregg does.

 

Just b/c I said he should be debated to go to the All-Star Game a couple days ago, doesn't mean that I don't think he's replaceable...or that he's a very good closer for that matter. Fact is, most of the dominant closers THIS YEAR are in the AL...that's the ONLY REASON it was even debatable, imo, at the time.

Man, there was so much wrong in there, it's hard to decipher it all.

 

I mean, you didn't call him a debatable all-star, you said he was having an all-star season, 3 innings ago. When I questioned it, you decided I was wrong. You were calling out all those who said that he was bad at the beginning of the season and basically giving them crap for jumping the gun. 3 innings later, he is replaceable and you want him gone.

 

I'm not sure what to make of the fact that you also called 14 of the 16 closers in the NL replaceable.

 

And about the ASG being about THIS YEAR and not their career...I agree...it's about THIS YEAR, not this minute.

[Erick]

Screw him and his 2.54 ERA and his 1.171 WHIP.

 

Erick, a few days ago, you were calling him an all-star.

 

 

I was.

He was 10/11...but the reason for it, is b/c the NL closers aside from Wagner and Lidge...aren't anything special.

 

There was no more to it, than that.

 

You can go back to any thread...listen, Gregg has done ok with us, but he's very replaceable. Those #'s aren't anything "special" by any means for a closer.

 

Gregg is making over 2 mill a year. His trade value will be good come July. Why not trade him? We have a bunch of great arms; I'd like to see one of them tested, and if Gregg could bring a couple prospects back, why not?

 

Btw, I miss you on the gamethreads. :thumbdown

A second ago he was an all-star! Dude, seriously. It's easy to jump on a closer for giving up 2 runs in 10.7 IP in his last 10 games, amassing a 1.69ERA and a 1.078 WHIP in that time.

 

Also... Lidge...really? He's been great this year...and I guess he was "Lights out Lidge" in 2005, but he blew 8 last year and 6 the year before. The man has been a wreck for a few years now, and I would like to see what happens if he faces Pujols again when the Phils face STL. (Keep in mind, I personally have been a big fan of Lidge for years and which him nothing but luck, except against the Fish.)

 

 

I wasn't complimenting Lidge for his career...I was complimenting Lidge on what he's done this year, and that's what the All-Star Game is about...THIS YEAR.

 

Gregg is, and has always been replaceable in my mind.

Just b/c I say he's a debatable All-Star a couple days ago, doesn't mean much. B/c it was true...a couple days ago, he could have made a case.

 

But then again, that's why they say it's early.

 

Look at Gregg's career #'s, and look Gregg's #'s since becoming closer of the Marlins. His save % is ok, but his WHIP just suggest he's nothing but a "meh" closer. He has control issues, and he's had him here, ever since the 2nd half of last year.

 

With Lindstrom, and 2 guys in Henry Owens and Carlos Martinez (where are they?), I still don't see why we can't trade Gregg for a couple of prospects (maybe an average catcher?), and replace Gregg with guys who have, at least, more potential than Gregg does.

 

Just b/c I said he should be debated to go to the All-Star Game a couple days ago, doesn't mean that I don't think he's replaceable...or that he's a very good closer for that matter. Fact is, most of the dominant closers THIS YEAR are in the AL...that's the ONLY REASON it was even debatable, imo, at the time.

Man, there was so much wrong in there, it's hard to decipher it all.

 

I mean, you didn't call him a debatable all-star, you said he was having an all-star season, 3 innings ago. When I questioned it, you decided I was wrong. You were calling out all those who said that he was bad at the beginning of the season and basically giving them crap for jumping the gun. 3 innings later, he is replaceable and you want him gone.

 

I'm not sure what to make of the fact that you also called 14 of the 16 closers in the NL replaceable.

 

And about the ASG being about THIS YEAR and not their career...I agree...it's about THIS YEAR, not this minute.

 

 

I posted stats at the time...and at the time, I thought he was.

AT THE TIME....

but stats change.

 

...and again, my point in this thread, is that he's replaceable...which he is.

 

And you're right...I do believe about that many closers are replaceable b/c lots of closers are overrated.

 

They get credit for things middle relievers do, yet they receive more credit b/c they get "saves," instead of "holds." Which if you read the rules, is basically the same thing. Yet, most of them, like Gregg, are only "saving" the mess they created, often times.

[CyggyMarlin]

Sounds like the "I can't save the game unless I put a runner on base and make it interesting" school of closing

[Erick]

Sounds like the "I can't save the game unless I put a runner on base and make it interesting" school of closing

 

exactly...to me, lots of closers are replaceable.

Does that mean they're bad? No.

But bad and replaceable aren't the same thing.

 

Just look around MLB...there are teams who have a middle reliever or 2, better than their closer.

 

To show you how overrated, saves are: look no further than Joe Borowski last year. Among the league leaders, yet Betancourt, Perez, and Lewis were all A LOT better. You're gonna tell me Joe Borowski isn't "replaceable?"

 

That's my point here.

 

Kevin Gregg is replaceable.

 

As of right now, I'd say, Rivera, Papelbon, Wagner, Soria, Saito, Jenks and Matt Capps (he's young, and solid) are the only closers who are not "replaceable." Lidge is having an amazing year, but even he's debatable.

 

Even J.J. Putz who was dominant last year, is "replaceable," b/c fact is, they can easily trade him for a team need, and insert a guy like Brendan Morrow into the closers role. He is going to be their "future closer," anyways.

[Rabbethan]

Sounds like the "I can't save the game unless I put a runner on base and make it interesting" school of closing

 

exactly...to me, lots of closers are replaceable.

Does that mean they're bad? No.

But bad and replaceable aren't the same thing.

 

Just look around MLB...there are teams who have a middle reliever or 2, better than their closer.

 

To show you how overrated, saves are: look no further than Joe Borowski last year. Among the league leaders, yet Betancourt, Perez, and Lewis were all A LOT better. You're gonna tell me Joe Borowski isn't "replaceable?"

 

That's my point here.

 

Kevin Gregg is replaceable.

 

As of right now, I'd say, Rivera, Papelbon, Wagner, Soria, Saito, Jenks and Matt Capps (he's young, and solid) are the only closers who are not "replaceable." Lidge is having an amazing year, but even he's debatable.

 

Even J.J. Putz who was dominant last year, is "replaceable," b/c fact is, they can easily trade him for a team need, and insert a guy like Brendan Morrow into the closers role. He is going to be their "future closer," anyways.

Now you are getting ridiculous. A little more than an hour ago, Brad Lidge was one of the only two closers in the NL worth keeping for sure, now he is debatable.

 

And yes, the stats have changes...Gregg's ERA has skyrocketed a full 0.14 since you proclaimed him an all-star...

 

POINT-ONE-FOUR!

 

Could you be any more knee-jerk?

[Retro_Marlins25]

Gregg also couldn't catch or block the plate on that wild pitch.Terrible outing.

[bobbob1313]

I feel as if some one has just kicked me in the stomach after a loss like tonight and the mets game. When you loss a blow out you can just brush it off easier as a bad day . I would imagine players are the same way.

 

These are professional athletes. I tend to think they can get over these things a lot better than fans can.

 

And I'd just like to agree with everyone here and add that I blame Rabbethan for most of the bad things that happen with the Marlins.

[Hammerhead]

Gregg also couldn't catch or block the plate on that wild pitch.Terrible outing.

While I agree that he has been pretty bad, the wild pitch wasn't that wild and how often is Gregg forced to block the plate?

[DanUgglaDay]

Kevin gregg is responsible for the 2008 collapse , every closer blows games but his last two blown saves are inexcusable . Let the other team beat you dont beat yourself

 

 

The "2008 collapse?"

 

We are in trouble , I think I made the mistake of moving away from my original expectations for this team when the Marlins started to win inspite of their poor defense and spotty starting pitching . These games where our bullpen is taxed to hell and we come up on the short time after time have a mental and physical effect on a team .

 

We're 2-5 in the last 7.

We've done this before, and rebounded nicely.

 

Every team goes through bad streaks over the course of a season.

If you think the season is over, when we're 1.5 games out of 1st place in early June, it's hard to even call you a fan. No offense...

 

None taken as someone who actually goes to 20 games a year who lives 300 miles away it is clear I am a Fake Marlin Fan. i am sorry if my acknowledgement of the reality that my team has some issues that traditionally in baseball have lead teams not to have great seasons has offended you .

 

OH CRAP! THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

[BroncoBob27]

I think I will just sit back and chuckle at some of you for a while.

[Out of the Past]

Gregg also couldn't catch or block the plate on that wild pitch.Terrible outing.

While I agree that he has been pretty bad, the wild pitch wasn't that wild and how often is Gregg forced to block the plate?

 

The wild pitch was that wild and if Gregg catches Rabelo's throw Francouer is probably out.

[pepepinguo]

He is not the answer as a closer...I see him as another Braden Looper...probably worse....if he is the closer long term

good luck to us...Gregg sucks ass....In the Arizona series he got a strike call on a ball 2 ft outside of home plate...if not for that the game might have been lost and he wouldn't have been praised for being such a great and tough closer....I get a

heartattack watching this guy pitch....

[Schnellders]

to everyone complaining about everything:

 

many predicted we would stink this year and have a record somewhere along the lines of 70-92

 

meaning that roughly our record would be 24-32 at this point of the year

 

however we are 31-25 so stop for a minute from all your whinging and look at the positive side of things

[pepepinguo]

Positive: Offense

Gregg as closer: Oh sh*t!!

[djm305]

It doesn't matter anyhow. Right now we really don't have ANYONE in our pen that can do a better job at closing than Gregg. I do not like him as a closer but we do not have a ton of options. Maybe you could put a guy like Nelson in there, but would he do any better? Pinto walks too many guys to be a closer IMO. Tank....well don't even get me started, Miller has been below average this year, Kensing...No thanks. Lindstrom could do the job if he could learn to control his pitches better he is too inconsistent but maybe being put into the Closer role would elevate his game. He's got the stuff to be a closer he is really the only guy I would prefer to see closing than Gregg. But really I do not think he would fare much better.

[DanUgglaDay]

What is the recovery timeline on Owens?

[HanleyDavidson]

Give Gregg only save oppurtunities with a 2+ run lead less than that give it to joe nelson.