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Best GM in club history, Dombrowski or Beinfest?


RenteriaUpTheMiddle
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Who was the best GM in our club's history?

 

Dombrowski: Made key signings to fill out the 1997 championship team, and aquired most of the key members of the 2003 team through draft picks and prospects obtained in trades.

 

Beinfest: Filled out the 2003 championship team with key veterans to help win it all, and continued to field a competitive team with an even more restrictive payroll than Dombrowski had to play with.

 

Thoughts?

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Add a third category for draw. Dombrowski won a title and set the Fish up pretty good for 2003 in acquiring Lee, Lowell, Burnett, Penny and Looper, he also signed Cabrera, Castillo and Gonzalez. Beinfest also made some good trades picking up Willis, Pierre, Encarnacion, Redman, Urbina and Pavano. Beinfest has 3 winning seasons to Dombrowski's 1 again I would say even until the Fish win another title.

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Admittely, I'm not an expert on DD's days in Miami, but I would have to go with Beinfest here. He consistently keeps you guys in contention with almost no payroll, helped shape up key parts of the 2003 team, and avoids the dark ages that you had at times under DD. Dave is a guy that can't compete without payroll backing him up, and the same can't be said for Admin Beinfest, and nothing says "great GM" like competing without a lot of money IMO.

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It has to be Beinfest. Both were ordered to clear payroll. Beinfest has managed to develop young players and compete. The darkest of Marlins teams were with Dombrowski's developing players.

 

I'm 50/50 right now, so I'll be arguing both guys merits... that said, Dombrowski built the core of 2 World Series teams. Beinfest has yet to do that yet. That 2003 team was Dombrowski's through and through, and Beinfest's biggest aquisition that year was a player we already had under Dombrowski, in Conine.

 

Beinfest has done a better job so far keeping us level, but Dombrowski has put together the 2 best teams in club history so far. And you have to realize, when Dombrowski made his firesale in 1997, we were one of the highest salaries in baseball, and Huizenga forced us to drop pretty much all salary by midseason of 1998... it was a much bigger dropoff. Beinfest didn't have to gut the team as dramatically, it was a slow rebuild beginning in 2004 and ending in 2006.

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That 2003 team was Dombrowski's through and through, and Beinfest's biggest aquisition that year was a player we already had under Dombrowski, in Conine.

 

That statement is completely incorrect. To say that the 2003 was "all Dombrowski" and that Beinfest's only acquisition of note that year was Conine shows a complete lack of knowledge of what happened in 2003!

 

Let's begin by seeing the seeds of 2003 laid out in 2002. Before the season begins, Beinfest (in his first major move as Marlins GM) trades Antonio Alfonseca and Matt Clement to Chicago for Julian Tavarez and three minor leaguers including some lanky kid named Dontrelle Willis. When the trade deadline was coming on, Beinfest traded Ryan Dempster to the Reds acquiring Juan Encarnacion (starting RF in 2003) and Wilton Guerrero. In a concurrent deal, Beinfest ships off disgruntled Cliff Floyd and the recently acquired Guerrero to Montreal for Carl Pavano (#3 starter in 2003), Graeme Lloyd, Mike Mordecai (remember Game 6 in Chicago?) and minor leaguer Justin Wayne.

 

Now, in the winter prior to the start of the 2003 season, Beinfest unloads the contracts of Charles Johnson and Preston Wilson to Colorado for Juan Pierre (starting CF in 2003) and Mike Hampton, who is then shipped off to Atlanta for Tim Spooneybarger. Add to that deal the shocking signing of Ivan Rodriguez and the unheralded signing of Mark Redman (#4 starter in 2003), and you have a team that cannot be claimed to be the sole work of Dave Dombrowski. This doesn't even take into consideration the deadline deal to acquire Ugeth Urbina; picking off Chad Fox from the heap after being released by the Red Sox; and signing Lenny Harris for nothing in August of 2003.

 

Each of those guys in bold above were SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTORS to the 2003 Championship team. So with that said, let's see who were who's guys in 2003:

 

C - Ivan Rodriguez (Beinfest)

1B - Derrek Lee (Dombrowski)

2B - Luis Castillo (Dombrowski)

SS - Alex Gonzalez (Dombrowski)

3B - Mike Lowell (Dombrowski)

LF - Todd Hollandsworth (Beinfest)/Miguel Cabrera (Dombrowski)

CF - Juan Pierre (Beinfest)

RF - Juan Encarnacion (Beinfest)

 

BN - Jeff Conine (v2.0 - Beinfest)

BN - Lenny Harris (Beinfest)

BN - Brian Banks (Dombrowski)

BN - Mike Mordecai (Beinfest)

BN - Andy Fox (Dombrowski)

BN - Mike Redmond (Dombrowski)

 

SP - Josh Beckett (Dombrowski)

SP - Brad Penny (Dombrowski)

SP - Carl Pavano (Beinfest)

SP - Dontrelle Willis (Beinfest)

SP - Mark Redman (Beinfest)

 

RP - Ugeth Urbina (Beinfest)

RP - Braden Looper (Dombrowski)

RP - Chad Fox (Beinfest)

RP - Armando Almanza (Dombrowski)

RP - Michael Tejera (Dombrowski)

RP - Nate Bump (Dombrowski)

RP - Tim Spooneybarger (Beinfest)

 

In closing, now that I've made my case, to say that the only thing that Beinfest did in 2003 was bring in Conine is just wrong!

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That 2003 team was Dombrowski's through and through, and Beinfest's biggest aquisition that year was a player we already had under Dombrowski, in Conine.

 

That statement is completely incorrect. To say that the 2003 was "all Dombrowski" and that Beinfest's only acquisition of note that year was Conine shows a complete lack of knowledge of what happened in 2003!

 

Let's begin by seeing the seeds of 2003 laid out in 2002. Before the season begins, Beinfest (in his first major move as Marlins GM) trades Antonio Alfonseca and Matt Clement to Chicago for Julian Tavarez and three minor leaguers including some lanky kid named Dontrelle Willis. When the trade deadline was coming on, Beinfest traded Ryan Dempster to the Reds acquiring Juan Encarnacion (starting RF in 2003) and Wilton Guerrero. In a concurrent deal, Beinfest ships off disgruntled Cliff Floyd and the recently acquired Guerrero to Montreal for Carl Pavano (#3 starter in 2003), Graeme Lloyd, Mike Mordecai (remember Game 6 in Chicago?) and minor leaguer Justin Wayne.

 

Now, in the winter prior to the start of the 2003 season, Beinfest unloads the contracts of Charles Johnson and Preston Wilson to Colorado for Juan Pierre (starting CF in 2003) and Mike Hampton, who is then shipped off to Atlanta for Tim Spooneybarger. Add to that deal the shocking signing of Ivan Rodriguez and the unheralded signing of Mark Redman (#4 starter in 2003), and you have a team that cannot be claimed to be the sole work of Dave Dombrowski. This doesn't even take into consideration the deadline deal to acquire Ugeth Urbina; picking off Chad Fox from the heap after being released by the Red Sox; and signing Lenny Harris for nothing in August of 2003.

 

Each of those guys in bold above were SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTORS to the 2003 Championship team. So with that said, let's see who were who's guys in 2003:

 

C - Ivan Rodriguez (Beinfest)

1B - Derrek Lee (Dombrowski)

2B - Luis Castillo (Dombrowski)

SS - Alex Gonzalez (Dombrowski)

3B - Mike Lowell (Dombrowski)

LF - Todd Hollandsworth (Beinfest)/Miguel Cabrera (Dombrowski)

CF - Juan Pierre (Beinfest)

RF - Juan Encarnacion (Beinfest)

 

BN - Jeff Conine (v2.0 - Beinfest)

BN - Lenny Harris (Beinfest)

BN - Brian Banks (Dombrowski)

BN - Mike Mordecai (Beinfest)

BN - Andy Fox (Dombrowski)

BN - Mike Redmond (Dombrowski)

 

SP - Josh Beckett (Dombrowski)

SP - Brad Penny (Dombrowski)

SP - Carl Pavano (Beinfest)

SP - Dontrelle Willis (Beinfest)

SP - Mark Redman (Beinfest)

 

RP - Ugeth Urbina (Beinfest)

RP - Braden Looper (Dombrowski)

RP - Chad Fox (Beinfest)

RP - Armando Almanza (Dombrowski)

RP - Michael Tejera (Dombrowski)

RP - Nate Bump (Dombrowski)

RP - Tim Spooneybarger (Beinfest)

 

In closing, now that I've made my case, to say that the only thing that Beinfest did in 2003 was bring in Conine is just wrong!

 

I never said that was the only thing he did.

 

However I'd still say the core of the 2003 team was put together by Dombrowski. I'll take the best players Dombrowski collected on that team over the ones Beinfest did. Thats not to say Beinfest didn't play a huge role, but the most important pieces were already in place. Not to mention, if Burnett doesn't get injured, he takes the spot of one of the starters Beinfest picked up and performs arguably better.

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I'll put it this way, I give Dombrowski most of the credit for 2003, but I still regard Beinfest as an above average due to his ability to create a competitive team after the 2005 firesale. Dombrowski is the clear winner for me and I would also consider 2004-2005 as weaknesses of Beinfest's legacy.

 

Lee and Lowell were the two best offensive players on the 2003 team and were the driving forces between the playoff run in terms of offense. Pierre, Rodriguez, and eventually Conine were all fine additions but their production wasn't even close to those of the former two. Hollandsworth was a bust and needed to be replaced (well, indirectly replaced...the Lowell injury helped in this decision) by a Dombrowski player.

 

Contributions to the rotation are fairly even but I might give the nod to Beinfest in a tossup, but only because Redman worked out well.

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I think it is a draw as far as championships. Beinfest did take what he was given by Dombrowski, but he made good decisions as far as trading to get talent in return, while Dombrowski went out and bought a championship. Beninfest has had a lot less money to work with, than Dave, and I think that has said a lot about Admin. Beinfest has made some great trades at the trade deadline (Lo Duca, Ugueth Urbina). Beinfest has also gotten Pudge, Carlos Delgado in FA. I think it comes down to when both GM's dismantled the teams. When Dombrowski did it, he didn't get the greatest players backin return. Yeah he got some guys that we would need in 03', but I think Beinfest did better. He got Hanley, Anibal, Nolasco, Mitre, etc.

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Dombrowski would have Beinfest beat easily if more of his 1997 firesale trades brought back good talent. Here's a summary (I'm excluding the names of the bust players to make my point):

 

Bobby Bonilla, Gary Sheffield, Charles Johnson, and Jim Eisenreich for Preston Wilson.

 

Jeff Conine, Moises Alou, Devon White, Robb Nen, and Dennis Cook for nothing.

 

Kevin Brown for Derrek Lee. (Not a terrible trade).

 

Al Leiter for AJ Burnett. (Not a terrible trade).

 

Jay Powell for Ramon Castro.

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Dombrowski would have Beinfest beat easily if more of his 1997 firesale trades brought back good talent. Here's a summary (I'm excluding the names of the bust players to make my point):

 

Bobby Bonilla, Gary Sheffield, Charles Johnson, and Jim Eisenreich for Preston Wilson.

 

Jeff Conine, Moises Alou, Devon White, Robb Nen, and Dennis Cook for nothing.

 

Kevin Brown for Derrek Lee. (Not a terrible trade).

 

Al Leiter for AJ Burnett. (Not a terrible trade).

 

Jay Powell for Ramon Castro.

 

 

and therein lies my problem with him.

 

 

 

I give the nod to Beinfest in a close race.

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Dombrowski would have Beinfest beat easily if more of his 1997 firesale trades brought back good talent. Here's a summary (I'm excluding the names of the bust players to make my point):

 

Bobby Bonilla, Gary Sheffield, Charles Johnson, and Jim Eisenreich for Preston Wilson.

 

Jeff Conine, Moises Alou, Devon White, Robb Nen, and Dennis Cook for nothing.

 

Kevin Brown for Derrek Lee. (Not a terrible trade).

 

Al Leiter for AJ Burnett. (Not a terrible trade).

 

Jay Powell for Ramon Castro.

 

Dombrowski did well in acquiring Penny, Lowell, DLee and Burnett via trades and he did it without any young studs as trading chips like Beckett (Dombrowski player) and Cabrera (Dombrowski player).

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Dombrowski would have Beinfest beat easily if more of his 1997 firesale trades brought back good talent. Here's a summary (I'm excluding the names of the bust players to make my point):

 

Bobby Bonilla, Gary Sheffield, Charles Johnson, and Jim Eisenreich for Preston Wilson.

 

Jeff Conine, Moises Alou, Devon White, Robb Nen, and Dennis Cook for nothing.

 

Kevin Brown for Derrek Lee. (Not a terrible trade).

 

Al Leiter for AJ Burnett. (Not a terrible trade).

 

Jay Powell for Ramon Castro.

 

Why, exactly, did you pick Dombrowski, then? You basically just leaned towards Beinfest with that post, no?

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Dombrowski would have Beinfest beat easily if more of his 1997 firesale trades brought back good talent. Here's a summary (I'm excluding the names of the bust players to make my point):

 

Bobby Bonilla, Gary Sheffield, Charles Johnson, and Jim Eisenreich for Preston Wilson.

 

Jeff Conine, Moises Alou, Devon White, Robb Nen, and Dennis Cook for nothing.

 

Kevin Brown for Derrek Lee. (Not a terrible trade).

 

Al Leiter for AJ Burnett. (Not a terrible trade).

 

Jay Powell for Ramon Castro.

 

Why, exactly, did you pick Dombrowski, then? You basically just leaned towards Beinfest with that post, no?

I think he switched to Beinfest.

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