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Third year with Hermida he has not improved at all , very disapointing . Additionally, when I was at the cub series last week I realized while it appears when he is in the outfield he is not hustling or moving at full speed alot I think his sub par defense his a function of his inability to pick up the ball well . At this point i think some teams would still be interested in Hermida because of the potential talen he may have I think we need to explore moving him.

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I think everyone is disappointed with Jeremy Hermida including himself. If he's not he shouldn't be playing MLB. He had a chance to nail a multi-year, multi-millions contract and blew it. Certainly the same could be said of others but none came with the hype and the can't miss promise Hermida came into the league with.

 

It goes to show you how so many (experts) really know so little about the prospects they rank and especially about the intangibles they possess beyond their obvious tools. Part of that is the sheer number of players entering a draft every year and the couple of hundred players every major league team has in their minor league organizations at any one time. I wish more of BA's work or Sickels for examples (and not to hold them up as the only guilty parties, they are just the most recognizable names) spent more time gathering data on players as to their work ethics and desire (perhaps competitiveness would be a better word, I know "desire" is one of those words statheads love to jump all over and ridicule), comments from coaches and scouts on both sides of the diamond regarding maturity, game smarts, etc.

 

This of course is an anathema to statheads but quantifying some of this stuff might lead to a group of "intangibles" stats that could go hand in hand a lot of the stuff we see now. I've always said of stats and why I don't give them the weight others do isn't because they aren't representative of something, they aren't representative ENOUGH. They are incomplete. They mean to be accurate but often equate to half-truths solely because their formulas are incomplete and take too little into account.

 

In horse race handicapping, the condition of the track is a significant factor. Why isn't it in baseball? In golf, courses are rated to adjust handicaps of golfers coming from other courses. When you have an outfield like in Colorado why isn't that a factor to be considered vs say Chicago?

 

But I've strayed far afield.

 

The masses cannot be completely wrong that Hermida (and I don't mean to single him out) makes some very poor choices in the field, gets woeful jumps and gives up on balls way too quickly. Or that for the most part he's timid at the plate, apparently of the belief that his chances are better of drawing a walk than getting a hit (and of course by now pitchers in MLB have figured out how to pitch to someone who thinks that way). These aren't my observations, these are the observations of probably hundreds of thousands of people who watch Marlins baseball regularly and while statheads will just pass it off as "your eyes are lieing to you..." when so many see the same thing so often there has to be some truth to it.

 

My guess is, just from random conversations with people in all walks of life who share a Marlins passion that JH is probably the biggest disappointment on this team in recent years. Hands down. And if he's not with the team in 2009 not a tear will be shed except by his adoring female teeny-bopper fan base.

 

There is of course as I've posted elsewhere a chance at redemption. As with Jacobs, Willingham and others, September is a month for redemption. He's running out of time but he can do it. As a Marlins fan I pray he does. As a realist I don't think a leopard changes its spots.

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i wish we'd stop entertaining the idea of gonzo playing everyday at an outfield spot.... though his bat may be slightly better than hermida's right now... his defense is amazingly horrifying and aggravating to watch. at least for me.

 

yes :thumbup (and that's no knock on Gonzo, it just is what it is)

 

go get Kotsay in the next few days, certainly before the upcoming mets series

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I wish LoDuca could play RF, then this would be a no brainer. The problem we have in removing Herm from the line up is who plays RF? Gonzo? He's only good for a spot start here and there. Would be nice if Willingham could play right, then LoDuca could go to LF, but that's just wishful thinking; I don't think Josh is athletic enough for RF and trying him in a new position NOW would be a wild move. But regardless, Hermida is undoubtedly NOT a #2 hitter. He strikes out too much, can't bunt to save his life, and does not make contact enough to do one of the most important things a #2 has to do: move the runner over. I lost count of all the times Hermida came up with Hanley on 2nd, no outs, and he could not hit a simple grounder to the right side, the way LoDuca did yesterday to set up our second run of the game. Hermida does not belong in the #2 spot in the lineup and I have no idea why Fredi kept him there all year.

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Hermida is 2 for his last 32 and if the Marlins plan on riding this thing out, they need a place to put Lo Duca.

 

Any objections?

 

 

Lo Duca in RF?

 

Hmmm...don't know about that move! Usually when a team moves a guy like a catcher to the outfield, the usual place they put them (hide them?, lol...) is in left field, which is where in fact LoDuca did play some games for Washington. Right field's a bit more dicey, usually a guy needs to be a bit more athletic and definitely needs a better arm than in LF. Problem is that you really wanna stay away from putting guys in unfamiliar positions in the middle of a playoff race. Therefore I think Loduca is more likely to get some run in LF rather than RF. Then there's also 1B, where I believe LoDuca has played a few games in his career. The way Jacobs has been hitting, especially against most lefties not named Moyer, I would think they MIGHT give LoDuca a little run over there at 1B. That's the problem Loduca presents. While we want him to replace Hermida in the batting order, he most likely can't replace him in RF, and we don't want Loduca to reduce much of Baker's time behind the plate. It's a tough spot.

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People ought to recognize (I guess it's their choice but I think it's so obvious) that the currently configured team cannot make it to October. I don't suggest Mark Kotsay because I love Mark Kotsay - he's cleared waivers and is with a team right behind us with only the Nationals able to make a claim in our way (he'd have to agree but since he's a free agent next season I can't see him saying no and having at least some chance of playing in October on his resume).

 

You can wish all you want (Ligero not you specifically, the figurative "you") that LoDuca could do this or Gonzo or Helms or whoever could do that, but if they could they already would be. The only conceivable thing you could do when Hanley is 100% is play Amezega in CF and Ross in one of the corners, or the opposite but otherwise the manager's hands are really tied.

 

He can play all three outfield positions but assuming Cody stays in center (if it ain't broke, don't fix it) with the arrival of Kotsay one of the two - Hermida or Willingham - is benched or sent to AAA where he can still be back with the team the next day (sort of) with Sept call ups. I might be wrong about that and I'll let Nny figure it out but I think so many of Willingham's and Hermida's trips to the minors were rehab assignments they don't count, both players can be sent to AAA without exposing them to other teams and if someone wanted them we cross that bridge when we get there.

 

Willingham is at least showing some life. Here are their two gamelogs. Compare July and August. The guy who loses his job is obvious:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?playerId=6199 Hermida

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?playerId=6024 Willingham

 

Maybe this is what Hermida needs. Maybe it will ruin his psyche (an old argument here at MB.com that he was fragile and sensitive and taking a boot camp mentality with him would only damage him more). I cannot predict. And I admit, I know 1% of what the front office knows so this isn't me telling them what to do but it's as plain as the nose on your face something has to change with our corner outfielders and the one most replacable with Kotsay is Hermida if for no other reason than Kotsay's experience there.

 

You gain nothing by taking Josh's arm out of left field and his bat is warming up. Or is it? Do I see him making better contact or am I seeing what I want to see? I'm open to any opinion contrary to mine on this. But, if I had to bet on who has the better Sept my money is on Willingham.

 

Oh yeah, and while you're at it Mike, grab David Weathers too will ya? He will not be playing on the Reds on Sept 1, better us than Philly or the Mets, both of whom need relievers. Unless I am missing something he's the spare closer/setup guy you need. Waechter is coming back, Kensing goes to AAA to make room anyways. I absolutely love the all old guy bullpen of Waechter, Rhodes, Nelson, Hendrickson and Weathers with Lindstrom and Gregg (sometimes) setting up.

 

Well back to work. Have fun with this one.

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Hermida is 2 for his last 32 and if the Marlins plan on riding this thing out, they need a place to put Lo Duca.

 

Any objections?

Tons.

 

LoDuca in RF is one of them.

 

Jeremy has been better than Hammer in the 2nd half is the other.

 

And Hammer plays a position that LoDuca could actually somewhat play.

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Hermida is 2 for his last 32 and if the Marlins plan on riding this thing out, they need a place to put Lo Duca.

 

Any objections?

Tons.

 

LoDuca in RF is one of them.

 

Jeremy has been better than Hammer in the 2nd half is the other.

 

And Hammer plays a position that LoDuca could actually somewhat play.

 

Pretty much these...

 

I think, and you all can do your best to notice this in tonight's game to confirm/shoot it down... But Hermida's problem really isn't one of work ethic or slumping... but moreso a minor hitch...

 

The guy is sitting on breaking balls and reacting to fastballs... funny because that's seemingly the antithesis of the Marlins' lineup, but by doing that, it's going to throw whole at-bats off... If he can get his thought process back, which is a function of coaching at this point, he should be fine

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Hermida is 2 for his last 32 and if the Marlins plan on riding this thing out, they need a place to put Lo Duca.

 

Any objections?

Tons.

 

LoDuca in RF is one of them.

 

Jeremy has been better than Hammer in the 2nd half is the other.

 

And Hammer plays a position that LoDuca could actually somewhat play.

Yeah, it'd probably work better with Willingham.

 

You know me though. Always looking for new and creative ways to bench Hermida.

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Jeremy has been better than Hammer in the 2nd half is the other.

 

Help me here. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong #s but post ASG Willingham seems at least incrementally better offensively than Hermida. Am I wrong or dyslexic or both?

 

Hammer, 29 Games .245/.364/.378

Hermida 33 Games .230/.323/.434

 

It's actually Hermida that's been incrementally better

 

And for you "counting stats" types...

 

Hammer - 0 HRs, 10 RBIs

Hermida - 6 HRs, 15 RBIs

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Jeremy has been better than Hammer in the 2nd half is the other.

 

Help me here. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong #s but post ASG Willingham seems at least incrementally better offensively than Hermida. Am I wrong or dyslexic or both?

You know what, you're arguably right. I've went with my gut instead of with the numbers and Hammer has been slightly better. I stand corrected.

 

That said, the slight added offense (read ridiculously slight) would be wiped right off the table by putting LoDuca in right field, all but killing our defense.

 

Also, Hammer hasn't looked better to me. Sure, he hit that disputed homer, but before that he struck out 3 times in a row.

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Jeremy has been better than Hammer in the 2nd half is the other.

 

Help me here. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong #s but post ASG Willingham seems at least incrementally better offensively than Hermida. Am I wrong or dyslexic or both?

 

Hammer, 29 Games .245/.364/.378

Hermida 33 Games .230/.323/.434

 

It's actually Hermida that's been incrementally better

 

And for you "counting stats" types...

 

Hammer - 0 HRs, 10 RBIs

Hermida - 6 HRs, 15 RBIs

That's why I went with "arguably".

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Jeremy has been better than Hammer in the 2nd half is the other.

 

Help me here. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong #s but post ASG Willingham seems at least incrementally better offensively than Hermida. Am I wrong or dyslexic or both?

 

Hammer, 29 Games .245/.364/.378

Hermida 33 Games .230/.323/.434

 

It's actually Hermida that's been incrementally better

 

And for you "counting stats" types...

 

Hammer - 0 HRs, 10 RBIs

Hermida - 6 HRs, 15 RBIs

That's why I went with "arguably".

 

With this in mind, and as Nny suggested before, Hammer should be batting second... Hammer is still getting on base at a VERY solid rate... and Hermida is lower in the lineup, all things considered, we're doing the right things

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Trust me, I'm the last guy suggesting LoDuca in right field now or ever.

That's untrue. I saw you picketing in front of Marlins En Miami with a sign that said "Put LoDuca in RF" and heard you chanting "LoDuca in right is right! LoDuca in right is right!"

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Trust me, I'm the last guy suggesting LoDuca in right field now or ever.

 

Neither was I. The original poster suggested benching Hermida. I ASSumed he meant in favor of LoDuca batting in the #2 slot, which, I beg to differ with you Rabb, but such a move would increase the offense much more than slightly. Loduca could even hit 10 points lower than Hermida and still have a huge offensive impact by the mere fact that he is able to move runners, which Hermida is pathetic at. Having a guy like Hanley at lead off is wasted if his progress around the bases is constantly being stalled by Hermida's strike outs, pop ups, failed bunt attempts, etc. LoDuca will at the very least get him to 2nd without him trying to STEAL his way there (and getting thrown out) and to 3rd where he can score on a sac fly (providing one of our guys can HIT ONE, lol). Anyway, I THOUGHT the OP meant benching Hermida in favor of LoDuca's BAT in the #2 slot, and doing that leaves us with the problem of who plays RF? I certainly was not in favor of LoDuca going there. So now we have two problems. Who plays RF if we bench Herm for LoDuca and where does LoDuca play? Catcher? He's a liability there, plus Baker has been hitting well. LF? Although he played there for a few games with the Nats, he would be a significant downgrade from Willingham (no Gold Glover himself, but a decent arm), and anyway Willingham might be showing signs of coming out of his batting funk. I also mentioned 1B, which I think might be the best place for him. Jacobs is a defensive BUM there and his bat is streaky and nearly non existent against lefties. So you see, benching Hermida is not that easy, lol......

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